Lawrence and Bennett Convicted of drink driving

[europia]

Not sure if it's been clarified elsewhere. Just curious that Keogh was sacked, gross misconduct was cited. Were Bennett and Lawrence also deemed to have committed gross misconduct? 

[rammieib]

47 minutes ago, europia said:

Not sure if it's been clarified elsewhere. Just curious that Keogh was sacked, gross misconduct was cited. Were Bennett and Lawrence also deemed to have committed gross misconduct? 

Nope. Gross misconduct is having your contract terminated. You can't commit gross misconduct and still employed.

[Reggie Greenwood]

3 hours ago, RamNut said:

.??

A known heavy drinker throughout his career and accused of domestic violence by his wife. 
 

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

Nope. Gross misconduct is having your contract terminated. You can't commit gross misconduct and still employed.

Not correct @rammieib

You can, and I did several times in my career, discipline someone and find them guilty of gross misconduct and not dismiss them summarily as I was entitled to do under my company’s disciplinary procedures. The reasons always were that the employee satisfied me as to the mitigating factors and that their behaviour was never likely to be repeated. 

From the (very) little we know about Keogh’s case this might have been an example of just that. Derby went through a formal disciplinary process, possibly found him guilty of gross misconduct but, as part of the disciplinary action (and given the possible mitigating factors) decided to offer him a reduced contract. I am guessing. 

What we think we know is that Keogh refused the offer thus leaving Derby with limited options. 

Without any formal and official statements on either side it’s hard to know for sure. No doubt that will change after the appeal or appeal period is over. 

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying, or are choosing not to. I quite clearly said he’s gone about things in exactly the right way, and you can’t expect any more than that. But what he did isn’t something that anyone should just write off and forget about. He could easily have killed someone, and to just forget that fact is extremely Disingenuous to the significance of what he chose to do. If you forget the past, it’s destined to repeat itself. So whilst yes he can earn forgiveness by showing he’s a changed man on and off the field, what he did shouldn’t be forgotten about. At least not so soon, anyway.

I understand perfectly thanks. Clearly you do not, so allow me to clarify; how I do or don't feel about Lawrence has absolutely nothing to do with you. By all means, speak for yourself, but don't cross the line and start trying to act as my moral compass. When you try and set yourself above others the way you have by inferring they should feel the same way you do, it really doesn't go down well. That's all there is to it I'm afraid.

 

[RamNut]

4 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

A known heavy drinker throughout his career and accused of domestic violence by his wife. 
 

I didn’t know about the domestic violence bit. I know he had a tough time after he retired from playing. 

There was a different attitude with regards to drinking. At a ‘meet the legends’ event Roy Mac recalled that he had to physically carry Dave Mackay up the stairs of the Midland hotel to get him back to his room and I dare say Roy Mac wasn’t in a much better state. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

I didn’t know about the domestic violence bit. I know he had a tough time after he retired from playing. 

There was a different attitude with regards to drinking. At a ‘meet the legends’ event Roy Mac recalled that he had to physically carry Dave Mackay up the stairs of the Midland hotel to get him back to his room and I dare say Roy Mac wasn’t in a much better state. 

Modern football though, aye.

[ThePrisoner]

49 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Modern football though, aye.

It will have been modern at the time!

[Millenniumram]

6 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I understand perfectly thanks. Clearly you do not, so allow me to clarify; how I do or don't feel about Lawrence has absolutely nothing to do with you. By all means, speak for yourself, but don't cross the line and start trying to act as my moral compass. When you try and set yourself above others the way you have by inferring they should feel the same way you do, it really doesn't go down well. That's all there is to it I'm afraid.

 

Fair enough, you have your view. I fundamentally can’t agree with anyone just writing it off though. I won’t say anymore on the matter, but I don’t think it’s right at all.

[rammieib]

8 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

Not correct @rammieib

You can, and I did several times in my career, discipline someone and find them guilty of gross misconduct and not dismiss them summarily as I was entitled to do under my company’s disciplinary procedures. The reasons always were that the employee satisfied me as to the mitigating factors and that their behaviour was never likely to be repeated. 

From the (very) little we know about Keogh’s case this might have been an example of just that. Derby went through a formal disciplinary process, possibly found him guilty of gross misconduct but, as part of the disciplinary action (and given the possible mitigating factors) decided to offer him a reduced contract. I am guessing. 

What we think we know is that Keogh refused the offer thus leaving Derby with limited options. 

Without any formal and official statements on either side it’s hard to know for sure. No doubt that will change after the appeal or appeal period is over. 

You are correct, my mistake.

[Comrade 86]

17 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Fair enough, you have your view. I fundamentally can’t agree with anyone just writing it off though. I won’t say anymore on the matter, but I don’t think it’s right at all.

Who is writing it off FFS? Proper straw man mate. You're just making poo up in your head I'm afraid.

[Millenniumram]

10 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Who is writing it off FFS? Proper straw man mate. You're just making poo up in your head I'm afraid.

Those who what to forget about it? That’s what I’m arguing against, not those who want to give him a second chance. Well, I’m not even arguing against it, I was just saying that it’s my view that we shouldn’t forget it. If others want to then I’m not gonna fight them over it.

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Those who what to forget about it? That’s what I’m arguing against, not those who want to give him a second chance. Well, I’m not even arguing against it, I was just saying that it’s my view that we shouldn’t forget it. If others want to then I’m not gonna fight them over it.

Then why not just say, 'I don't think people should be given a second chance' and be done with it, because that's effectively what you are saying. I still don't get why other folks' timetable for forgiveness matters to you to be quite honest. This is a football forum and as I've already said, questioning people's character because they don't appear to to meet your rather exacting moral standards is a fair old stretch IMO.

 

[Millenniumram]

8 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Then why not just say, 'I don't think people should be given a second chance' and be done with it, because that's effectively what you are saying. I still don't get why other folks' timetable for forgiveness matters to you to be quite honest. This is a football forum and as I've already said, questioning people's character because they don't appear to to meet your rather exacting moral standards is a fair old stretch IMO.

 

But that’s not what I’m saying, is it? I’ve never once through all of this argued no one should be given a second chance. All I’m saying is, there’s a difference between giving someone a second chance- even forgiving them, and forgetting what they’ve done. No problem with the former as I’ve always said, even if I don’t think that second chance should’ve been come here. Now it has, Lawrence has gone about things in exactly the right way, and that was the main point of my post in here, and as I say, he’s working towards getting my respect back for showing that desire for change. 

But I just don’t think people should just forget what he’s done as if it never happened. That’s all I’m saying. What he did was incredibly serious and needs to be remembered as a lesson for all others in the squad if nothing else, not just forgotten about a month later. If others want to forget about it I’m not gonna argue about it, but I just don’t think that’s the right attitude to take.

Not quite sure why you’ve taken such issue with a passing comment in my post, the main crux of why I posted it was to praise the manner in which Lawrence has conducted himself since the incident. My intention wasn’t to question anyone’s charectar.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

But I just don’t think people should just forget what he’s done as if it never happened. That’s all I’m saying. What he did was incredibly serious and needs to be remembered as a lesson for all others in the squad if nothing else, not just forgotten about a month later. If others want to forget about it I’m not gonna argue about it, but I just don’t think that’s the right attitude to take.

I'm not sure if any on here were actually suggesting Lawrence & Bennetts offence should be forgotten as if nothing happened. After all they won't be able to, they have do 'do their community service' etc.

However I don't think it should be used as a stick to beat them with either.

I imagine they are doing their best to rehabilitate themselves with the squad and the fans, and I think as could be seen in Lawrence's interview the subject is still very much thought of. In one way I wish Gibbo had brought it up, it needs to be talked about, not passed off but discussed. It doesn't want to become a taboo subject, the 'elephant in the room'!

#COYR

[Millenniumram]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'm not sure if any on here were actually suggesting Lawrence & Bennetts offence should be forgotten as if nothing happened. After all they won't be able to, they have do 'do their community service' etc.

However I don't think it should be used as a stick to beat them with either.

I imagine they are doing their best to rehabilitate themselves with the squad and the fans, and I think as could be seen in Lawrence's interview the subject is still very much thought of. In one way I wish Gibbo had brought it up, it needs to be talked about, not passed off but discussed. It doesn't want to become a taboo subject, the 'elephant in the room'!

#COYR

I was pulled up for suggesting that it shouldn’t be forgotten about, so that’s what I was commenting on. I haven’t seen anyone suggesting it should be forgotten about either, but I was just making the point we need to be careful not to forget it happened, so that it doesn’t appear to become acceptable. I agree with your post in the main, what the pair of them did was very wrong (and I maintain imo they’d should’ve been sacked for it) but since the club has made its decision, the pair of them have gone about things in exactly the right way, and as I say they at least win some respect back for the way they’re working hard to show themselves in a better light.

I too would be very interested to see how Lawrence would respond to a question about the situation in an interview. Something like that where he has to speak on the spot would show his true emotions on the subject. I probably agree with the clubs stance not to ask about it as to not stir the pot, but sky won’t be so kind. Be very interesting to see what happens if he pulls a MOM on Saturday (which I hope he does!)

 

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

Fair enough, you have your view. I fundamentally can’t agree with anyone just writing it off though. I won’t say anymore on the matter, but I don’t think it’s right at all.

At last you are going to stop bringing it up .

We all know what they did was wrong and so do they .

We move on .

[Millenniumram]

20 minutes ago, Curtains said:

At last you are going to stop bringing it up .

We all know what they did was wrong and so do they .

We move on .

I mean this is quite literally the thread about the pair of them being caught drink driving, so I don’t think I’m being particularly obsessive by discussing it here. If you don’t want to hear about it, perhaps don’t click the thread titled “Lawrence and Bennett convicted of drunk driving” in the future?

[Mucker1884]

Ooh... I'd forgotten all about this!  

[Dethorn]

12 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

A known heavy drinker throughout his career and accused of domestic violence by his wife. 
 

And if you believe everything you hear Didn't he steal a watch or something ??