Retained List

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 hour ago, LondonRam2 said:

hi all

The retained list according to the DCFC website is

Scott Carson, Andre Wisdom, Craig Forsyth, Richard Keogh, Martyn Waghorn, Tom Lawrence, Florian Jozefzoon, Jack Marriott, Bradley Johnson, George Evans, Jacob Butterfield, Chris Martin, Mason Bennett, Kelle Roos, Nick Blackman, Duane Holmes, Max Lowe, Ikechi Anya, Curtis Davies, George Thorne, Jonathan Mitchell, Jayden Bogle, Luke Thomas, Max Bird, Tom Huddlestone, Scott Malone.

So, new game...what's the best 11 from just those players and where do you think we would finish if that was the team for next season?

I'd go for (cover in brackets):

Carson (Roos)

Bogle (Wisdom)   Psycho (Davies)   Evans (Malone)    Lowe (Fozzy)

Thorne (Hudds)   

Lawrence (Anya)  Mason B (Brad)  Marriott (Butters)  Holmes (Josefzoon)

Chris Martin (Waggy)   

Y'know, 5 years ago we'd have said that a team that included Thorne, Hudds, Chris Martin, Waggy & Wisdom was a strong side!  Add to that the pace of Lawro & Duane H, plus two quality wing backs in Bogle & Max Lowe, and even if no one came in or out in the summer we'd still be competitive I reckon, though probably top 10 rather than top 2.

To me, as I look at that team, it reminds me of the recent Hatton Garden robbery.  Can this team of old stagers, together with the new blood we now have, come together for one last raid on the Holy Grail of promotion. one last 'blaaaaag' as it were?  In recent years we've seen teams go up who individually didn't have the quality that we still have even now, they just found a way of making the whole greater than the sum of the parts (Brighton, Huddersfield, Burnley, Sheff Utd).

If we make changes, who goes out & who comes in?  Why bring in players who aren't an improvement on what we already have?  We've done this so many times, signing too many players in the £1-2 million range, and it almost never works out.  Why not (i) give the old stagers a chance once more (ii) bring the U23/U18 through and (iii) if we have money, bring in 1 or 2 real quality people from the PL on the basis that we very nearly went up this time and should be up there again?

Someone pointed out the other day that this will be the first decade during which we haven't played top flight football.  True, but we've been so close so many times that if/when we do get back where we belong we need to make sure we stay there!  Can we, in the long term, go from being like West Brom/Norwich (yoyo team) to being like Villa/Newcastle (bottom half but usually safe)?  Or even like Everton (usually top half, Europa league maybe)?

What do we need?  Who will provide the magic this time?  

LR2

 

You need to up your game before your interview Jokanovich, Mel won't take too kindly to those sort of tactics.

I'm guessing Keogh isn't there as Lamps bought him for 20 million at Chelsea?

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Well well Johnson wasn’t playing for a new contract after all! I guess all the haters are annoyed they weren’t right!

on the financial side I would imagine that they’ve cut the wages in half but an extra year so they aren’t out of pocket but it’s spread over the 2 years for FFP purposes.

shrewd business if you ask me

Shrewd business if your assumption is correct. Not sure why Johnson would accept what you are suggesting though. His agent would need shooting if he's agreed to that.

[G STAR RAM]

13 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I think it’s because it drops into a different financial year for the club ( I could easily be wrong mind)

Not quite as simple as that. 

DCFC will be required to value them players at the end of the season just gone, based on information available to them. 

They didn't figure at all last season, won't figure at all the coming season (if what DET has said), they've been on the market for 2 transfer windows and we've had no bids worthy of accepting. 

If you were independent of the club what would you say their value is to us?

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, LondonRam2 said:

 

I'd go for (cover in brackets):

Carson (Roos)

Bogle (Wisdom)   Psycho (Davies)   Evans (Malone)    Lowe (Fozzy)

Thorne (Hudds)   

Lawrence (Anya)  Mason B (Brad)  Marriott (Butters)  Holmes (Josefzoon)

Chris Martin (Waggy)   

 

 

Bennett and Marriott in centre mid.... Malone at centre half.. Anya at all..

[Mucker1884]

12 hours ago, Steve How Hard? said:

Looks like this FFP battle is one we'll only win if we can finally make it to the Premier League. Seems like we're just plugging holes in a sinking ship at the moment. Very worrying.

There's the problem right there... Bielsa would turn the bucket upside down over the hole, and sit on it, and the L**ds fans would mop up the trickle with their 87,000 spare scravers!

Frank Out!  ... or Mel... or whoever is to blame this week!

[Will Hughes Hair]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not quite as simple as that. 

DCFC will be required to value them players at the end of the season just gone, based on information available to them. 

They didn't figure at all last season, won't figure at all the coming season (if what DET has said), they've been on the market for 2 transfer windows and we've had no bids worthy of accepting. 

If you were independent of the club what would you say their value is to us?

Ooh, ooh I'll go first.  I'd say they're worth 4 million.  Am I right?  What do I win?

[Sparkle]

19 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not quite as simple as that. 

DCFC will be required to value them players at the end of the season just gone, based on information available to them. 

They didn't figure at all last season, won't figure at all the coming season (if what DET has said), they've been on the market for 2 transfer windows and we've had no bids worthy of accepting. 

If you were independent of the club what would you say their value is to us?

Again without full knowledge I thought that the length of the contract reduced the overall value and cost to the club regarding FFP 

anyway some awful deals for us

[Rev]

22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not quite as simple as that. 

DCFC will be required to value them players at the end of the season just gone, based on information available to them. 

They didn't figure at all last season, won't figure at all the coming season (if what DET has said), they've been on the market for 2 transfer windows and we've had no bids worthy of accepting. 

If you were independent of the club what would you say their value is to us?

An amount equal to the wages they are due to receive in the coming year, at best.

[RamsFan10]

I think we're actually in a good place with the retained list:

Roos/Carson (Ravas)

Bogle (Wisdom) - Keogh (Evans) - Davies (Buchanan?) - Malone (Forsyth, Lowe) 

Holmes (Sibley) - Johnson (Huddlestone) - Shinnie (Bird)

Lawrence (Thomas) - Waghorn/Marriott - Bennett (Zoon)

 

Deadwood: Martin, Thorne, Butterfield, Blackman, Anya, Mitchell

Prospects: Sibley, Bird, Thomas, MacDonald, Mitchell Lawson etc...

 

We clearly need a centre half or two, a central midfielder or two, and a wide man - not a mountain to climb. 

[GenBr]

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Shrewd business if your assumption is correct. Not sure why Johnson would accept what you are suggesting though. His agent would need shooting if he's agreed to that.

Well johnson, Butterfield and Blackman all signed 12 month extensions on "vastly reduced terms". He either agreed with it or he would have had to find another club to play for.

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

Ooh, ooh I'll go first.  I'd say they're worth 4 million.  Am I right?  What do I win?

The special Paul Clement value for money award.

19 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Again without full knowledge I thought that the length of the contract reduced the overall value and cost to the club regarding FFP 

anyway some awful deals for us

No, the accounting practice was changed and the club now values players at the end of each season.

17 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

An amount equal to the wages they are due to receive in the coming year, at best.

That is a liability to the club, not an asset. Their value should reflect either what we could expect to achieve if we sold them or the benefit we could expect from them if they were playing for us.

12 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Well johnson, Butterfield and Blackman all signed 12 month extensions on "vastly reduced terms". He either agreed with it or he would have had to find another club to play for.

Yes but if you have a contract says you are due £2m over the next 12 months, then why would you agree to being paid £2m over 24 months?

[ramsbottom]

10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Carson maybe but Keogh plays week in week out.

You're missing my point.  Unless we're penniless and have zero funds to but any new players, only Frank will which players are sold or released.  Otherwise what's the point of having a manager at all...

[Carnero]

16 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Well johnson, Butterfield and Blackman all signed 12 month extensions on "vastly reduced terms". He either agreed with it or he would have had to find another club to play for.

Totally made up numbers but I'd imagine they've got from (say) £30k/week for 1 year to £20k/week for 2 years.

A 33% reduction would class as vastly reduced.

[jono]

12 hours ago, KCG said:

Love it... the financial "experts" are out again... sigh!

It’s brilliant isn’t it. I got told yesterday by a supposed ITK ...  that Keogh was on 60K a week from an old contract, will probably spend his last year on the bench as Curtis (who’s better on the ball ) steps back in to play with Tomori who we’ve already signed on the QT

you couldn’t and make it up springs to mind ?

[Will Hughes Hair]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The special Paul Clement value for money award.

It's the very first thing I've ever won!  You are now my favourite poster ever.  I'm guessing Sam Rush will present my award to me in a brown paper bag?

[ramsbottom]

5 minutes ago, jono said:

It’s brilliant isn’t it. I got told yesterday by a supposed ITK ...  that Keogh was on 60K a week from an old contract, will probably spend his last year on the bench as Curtis (who’s better on the ball ) steps back in to play with Tomori who we’ve already signed on the QT

you couldn’t and make it up springs to mind ?

Is this ITK a friend of yours??  If so, you're not a very good judge of them ?

[Rev]

20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

That is a liability to the club, not an asset. Their value should reflect either what we could expect to achieve if we sold them or the benefit we could expect from them if they were playing for us.

You asked what I would value them at, and I'd value them at the maximum amount they would cost us if they stayed. 

[sage]

2 hours ago, LondonRam2 said:

hi all

The retained list according to the DCFC website is

Scott Carson, Andre Wisdom, Craig Forsyth, Richard Keogh, Martyn Waghorn, Tom Lawrence, Florian Jozefzoon, Jack Marriott, Bradley Johnson, George Evans, Jacob Butterfield, Chris Martin, Mason Bennett, Kelle Roos, Nick Blackman, Duane Holmes, Max Lowe, Ikechi Anya, Curtis Davies, George Thorne, Jonathan Mitchell, Jayden Bogle, Luke Thomas, Max Bird, Tom Huddlestone, Scott Malone.

So, new game...what's the best 11 from just those players and where do you think we would finish if that was the team for next season?

I'd go for (cover in brackets):

Carson (Roos)

Bogle (Wisdom)   Psycho (Davies)   Evans (Malone)    Lowe (Fozzy)

Thorne (Hudds)   

Lawrence (Anya)  Mason B (Brad)  Marriott (Butters)  Holmes (Josefzoon)

Chris Martin (Waggy)   

Y'know, 5 years ago we'd have said that a team that included Thorne, Hudds, Chris Martin, Waggy & Wisdom was a strong side!  Add to that the pace of Lawro & Duane H, plus two quality wing backs in Bogle & Max Lowe, and even if no one came in or out in the summer we'd still be competitive I reckon, though probably top 10 rather than top 2.

To me, as I look at that team, it reminds me of the recent Hatton Garden robbery.  Can this team of old stagers, together with the new blood we now have, come together for one last raid on the Holy Grail of promotion. one last 'blaaaaag' as it were?  In recent years we've seen teams go up who individually didn't have the quality that we still have even now, they just found a way of making the whole greater than the sum of the parts (Brighton, Huddersfield, Burnley, Sheff Utd).

If we make changes, who goes out & who comes in?  Why bring in players who aren't an improvement on what we already have?  We've done this so many times, signing too many players in the £1-2 million range, and it almost never works out.  Why not (i) give the old stagers a chance once more (ii) bring the U23/U18 through and (iii) if we have money, bring in 1 or 2 real quality people from the PL on the basis that we very nearly went up this time and should be up there again?

Someone pointed out the other day that this will be the first decade during which we haven't played top flight football.  True, but we've been so close so many times that if/when we do get back where we belong we need to make sure we stay there!  Can we, in the long term, go from being like West Brom/Norwich (yoyo team) to being like Villa/Newcastle (bottom half but usually safe)?  Or even like Everton (usually top half, Europa league maybe)?

What do we need?  Who will provide the magic this time?  

LR2

 

I presume this is a joke yeh?

[AdamRam]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not quite as simple as that. 

DCFC will be required to value them players at the end of the season just gone, based on information available to them. 

They didn't figure at all last season, won't figure at all the coming season (if what DET has said), they've been on the market for 2 transfer windows and we've had no bids worthy of accepting. 

If you were independent of the club what would you say their value is to us?

Is the valuation within the recently published accounts as at the end of this season and have they published each player’s valuation so we know that they haven’t reflected a reduced valuation for these individuals?

[RadioactiveWaste]

50 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

It's the very first thing I've ever won!  You are now my favourite poster ever.  I'm guessing Sam Rush will present my award to me in a brown paper bag?

Yup, he's going to set it on fire and leave it on your doorstep