The Politics Thread 2019

[GboroRam]

I'll try to answer gstar's point as best I can. My personal view, others may not agree. 

Diane Abbott's comment about Scandinavian blonde nurses is / was racist. Can't deny it. Maybe she thought she had good reasons, maybe she was garnering support in her black community. Either way, wrong. I gather she apologised. The "divide and rule" sounds racist but I think she has a general point, but her phrasing is divisive. 

Does it worry me? Not really, maybe if gangs of black women start roaming the streets looking for revenge, then I'll start worrying more. But it was out of line and I have no problem calling her out for it. 

Racism is about power. When a majority begins to act out and single out minorities, I worry. Minorities reacting back is more understandable, by which I'm thinking about groups such as the black panthers. Still she was wrong, and I'm happy to call it out. 

I don't have a problem saying Diane Abbott caused harm to Labour's election campaign. I don't agree with her views. I don't think they are dangerous though. The mob mentality of the EDL and Brittain Furst far right loonies are more of a concern (though thankfully their mainstream appeal has taken a hit - optimistically because of the anti racist activists making it difficult to be a supporter of those kinds of groups).

[Gritstone Ram]

4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I'll try to answer gstar's point as best I can. My personal view, others may not agree. 

Diane Abbott's comment about Scandinavian blonde nurses is / was racist. Can't deny it. Maybe she thought she had good reasons, maybe she was garnering support in her black community. Either way, wrong. I gather she apologised. The "divide and rule" sounds racist but I think she has a general point, but her phrasing is divisive. 

Does it worry me? Not really, maybe if gangs of black women start roaming the streets looking for revenge, then I'll start worrying more. But it was out of line and I have no problem calling her out for it. 

Racism is about power. When a majority begins to act out and single out minorities, I worry. Minorities reacting back is more understandable, by which I'm thinking about groups such as the black panthers. Still she was wrong, and I'm happy to call it out. 

I don't have a problem saying Diane Abbott caused harm to Labour's election campaign. I don't agree with her views. I don't think they are dangerous though. The mob mentality of the EDL and Brittain Furst far right loonies are more of a concern (though thankfully their mainstream appeal has taken a hit - optimistically because of the anti racist activists making it difficult to be a supporter of those kinds of groups).

I’m not disagreeing with you but Diane Abbot is associated with the main stream Labour Party where as the EDL and Britain First have as much chance as Labour do of getting into power.

[GboroRam]

25 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I’m not disagreeing with you but Diane Abbot is associated with the main stream Labour Party where as the EDL and Britain First have as much chance as Labour do of getting into power.

Can't defend Abbott. Should have been sidelined long before she was. 

[Rev]

8 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

TBQHWY that's a hell of a reach mate. It's not "political correctness" in play there, it's a much deeper social issue. Blaming it on "political correctness" is a cop-out. If people had concrete evidence that abuse was going on then they wouldn't have had any fears of reporting it. 

 

You're normally reasoned in your arguments, but on this occasion I can't agree it's a "hell of a reach", as you put it.

That was exactly what the independent enquiry found.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, reverendo de duivel said:

You're normally reasoned in your arguments, but on this occasion I can't agree it's a "hell of a reach", as you put it.

That was exactly what the independent enquiry found.

Sorry mate - but no it didn't - the Jay report is here

https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham

the words "political correctness" do not appear in the report at all. Check it if you don't believe me

The Chief Prosecutor even said "The handling of the cases was a matter of incompetence rather than political correctness"

 

 

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Sorry mate - but no it didn't - the Jay report is here

https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham

the words "political correctness" do not appear in the report at all. Check it if you don't believe me

The Chief Prosecutor even said "The handling of the cases was a matter of incompetence rather than political correctness"

I only got as far as page 2 of 159;

'Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.'

[ossieram]

2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I only got as far as page 2 of 159;

'Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.'

Yeah but they didn't use the words "politcal correctness" so it doesn't count.

[ariotofmyown]

54 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I only got as far as page 2 of 159;

'Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.'

Nowhere in my political correctness bible does it say "thou shalt not investigate crimes where the accused are of a certain ethnic group else thou may be accused of been racist".

[Comrade 86]

The horse-faced hate-momgerer feeling the burn. Hard to recall a more repugnant member of the media than the toxic shizzle fountain that is Katie Hopkins. 
 

 

[Angry Ram]

4 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Nowhere in my political correctness bible does it say "thou shalt not investigate crimes where the accused are of a certain ethnic group else thou may be accused of been racist".

But that’s exactly what happens. 

[Gritstone Ram]

8 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Can't defend Abbott. Should have been sidelined long before she was. 

I personally don’t think she is capable of doing the job of Home Secretary but you could argue that for the majority of MPs and PM.

[ariotofmyown]

3 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

But that’s exactly what happens. 

So do we drop this whole political correctness thing then and go back to those glory days of "free speech" where people could use openly racist and offensive language to mock and bully people who are different? Of course not.

"Political correctness gone mad" has gone mad. It's really not difficult. And it has nothing to do with not investigating certain groups of people if there is evidence against them.

 

[Angry Ram]

11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

So do we drop this whole political correctness thing then and go back to those glory days of "free speech" where people could use openly racist and offensive language to mock and bully people who are different? Of course not.

"Political correctness gone mad" has gone mad. It's really not difficult. And it has nothing to do with not investigating certain groups of people if there is evidence against them.

 

There should always be acceptable and unacceptable. But free speech is a must. 
I know plod who openly admit they police different demonstrations differently and some get an easier ride than others as they are concerned about the fallout of being heavy handed.  I will leave you to guess which. 

[ariotofmyown]

5 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

There should always be acceptable and unacceptable. But free speech is a must. 
I know plod who openly admit they police different demonstrations differently and some get an easier ride than others as they are concerned about the fallout of being heavy handed.  I will leave you to guess which. 

We are lucky to still be living in a period of time where we have free speech but also a framework that distinguishes between acceptable and unacceptable language.

I guess the plod police can be heavy handed during a far right march as the general public have little concern for racists attempting to stir up hatred and scare people who don't have white skin.

I assume they police a climate change march differently as the people involved aren't actually hate filled thugs, even if some of their protests are overly disruptive and sometimes counter productive.

Been heavy handed with some racist goons is a better look than roughing up some 20 year old students.

[G STAR RAM]

57 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

So do we drop this whole political correctness thing then and go back to those glory days of "free speech" where people could use openly racist and offensive language to mock and bully people who are different? Of course not.

"Political correctness gone mad" has gone mad. It's really not difficult. And it has nothing to do with not investigating certain groups of people if there is evidence against them.

But you've been presented with evidence that this does happen so it does have something to do with that, or are you just refusing to believe it happens?

[ariotofmyown]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But you've been presented with evidence that this does happen so it does have something to do with that, or are you just refusing to believe it happens?

It was presented as a reason why someone did not do their job properly.

If your boss at work told you to write a report in black ink, then you submitted it in blue ink as you thought it was "not politically correct" to use black ink, then that would be your fault for been stupid. It wouldn't mean political correctness had gone mad.

[Angry Ram]

3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

We are lucky to still be living in a period of time where we have free speech but also a framework that distinguishes between acceptable and unacceptable language.

I guess the plod police can be heavy handed during a far right march as the general public have little concern for racists attempting to stir up hatred and scare people who don't have white skin.

I assume they police a climate change march differently as the people involved aren't actually hate filled thugs, even if some of their protests are overly disruptive and sometimes counter productive.

Been heavy handed with some racist goons is a better look than roughing up some 20 year old students.

Been some pretty disgusting Islamic protests/demonstrations in London. I see you carefully swerve that example.. Is it acceptable for plod to police that differently than a far right demo? If it is spewing hate, then no.

[Tyler Durden]

3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

We are lucky to still be living in a period of time where we have free speech but also a framework that distinguishes between acceptable and unacceptable language.

I guess the plod police can be heavy handed during a far right march as the general public have little concern for racists attempting to stir up hatred and scare people who don't have white skin.

I assume they police a climate change march differently as the people involved aren't actually hate filled thugs, even if some of their protests are overly disruptive and sometimes counter productive.

Been heavy handed with some racist goons is a better look than roughing up some 20 year old students.

A risk assessment will be carried out by the relevant police force end of story before policing each discrete demonstration.

You'll be posting stuff about the use of rubber hoses by the police next.

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

We are lucky to still be living in a period of time where we have free speech but also a framework that distinguishes between acceptable and unacceptable language.

I guess the plod police can be heavy handed during a far right march as the general public have little concern for racists attempting to stir up hatred and scare people who don't have white skin.

I assume they police a climate change march differently as the people involved aren't actually hate filled thugs, even if some of their protests are overly disruptive and sometimes counter productive.

Been heavy handed with some racist goons is a better look than roughing up some 20 year old students.

Some of the worse vitriol you see is from these 'protests'.

That Greta Thunberg for example comes across as very hate filled to me.

[Angry Ram]

I miss Brexit ?