The Politics Thread 2019

[Comrade 86]

5 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Ossieram wasn't criticising people doing that, but notifying employers that their staff attend far right rallies. Is that as bad as fascism?

Seems pretty clear from this and other earlier conversations that some folk can’t distinguish between direct action and outright thuggery. I’ll say what I like anyway. If the likes of that plank doorstep me one dark night they’ll not find me terribly accommodating. 

[ossieram]

7 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Ossieram wasn't criticising people doing that, but notifying employers that their staff attend far right rallies. Is that as bad as fascism?

Did you read all of my post, or just the bit about reporting them to where they work? People have also been attacked at their homes for attending rallies.

 

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Nothing at all, as long as they have actually checked to make sure that person is a far right member and not somebody that has attended a rally organised by football lads or veterans organisations to oppose gangs grooming young girls or the hate preaching of people like Anjem Coudrey.

If i knew somebody I worked with was a far right nazi, I would report them, just as I would if I knew they suported a terrorist organisation.

For clarity...Are you saying Antifa is a terrorist organisation and all its members are therefore terrorists?

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, ossieram said:

Did you read all of my post, or just the bit about reporting them to where they work? People have also been attacked at their homes for attending rallies.

 

Dies that mean Britain Furst are terrorists too in your opinion?

[maxjam]

10 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Ossieram wasn't criticising people doing that, but notifying employers that their staff attend far right rallies. Is that as bad as fascism?

So long as Antifa members are happy to be unmasked and face similar conequences for attending disruptive/often violent rallies.  As a potential employer I'm not sure I'd want either faction working for me.

[ossieram]

3 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

For clarity...Are you saying Antifa is a terrorist organisation and all its members are therefore terrorists?

No. I think they are a bunch of brain washed morons in the same way I think the far right rascists are.

[ossieram]

4 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Dies that mean Britain Furst are terrorists too in your opinion?

What are you on about?

[Comrade 86]

37 minutes ago, ossieram said:

What are you on about?

Sorry - not made it clear? 
 

f i knew somebody I worked with was a far right nazi, I would report them, just as I would if I knew they suported a terrorist organisation.

You seem to be inferring that Antifa are terrorists, I’m just asking whether that same thinking applies to Britain First?

[ossieram]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Sorry - not made it clear? 
 

f i knew somebody I worked with was a far right nazi, I would report them, just as I would if I knew they suported a terrorist organisation.

You seem to be inferring that Antifa are terrorists, I’m just asking whether that same thinking applies to Britain First?

I'm not inferring that at all and made it clear in my earlier reply. 

[ariotofmyown]

8 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Waffle, waffle Antifa... I think that’s how it goes.

 

Geez, some of these new northern Tory MPs are a bit special.

[Norman]

3 hours ago, maxjam said:

Very few people have ever called Antifa normal people.

It was only a few weeks a go he claimed that there was no Antifa here. Then he said they were in really, really small numbers. 

Now he knows everything about them. 

?

[GboroRam]

44 minutes ago, Norman said:

It was only a few weeks a go he claimed that there was no Antifa here. Then he said they were in really, really small numbers. 

Now he knows everything about them. 

?

Have I?

I referred to "Anti-fascists", which was what once the default position of normal people. I still refuse to believe there's a big bogeyman of "Antifa". There's various activist groups fighting organised fascist groups, but I don't believe there's much use of the umbrella "Antifa" in this country. Except by the far right, and a few people here who seem to want to help them propagate this view that there's a mass anarchist group going round randomly attacking (mostly) law abiding racists.

There's a difference between the groups who organise and march wanting to see the white nation rise supreme again, and the people who actively fight against them. I'm on the side of the latter and don't agree with giving the former group free unfettered right to spread their hatred.

[ossieram]

10 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I referred to "Anti-fascists", which was what once the default position of normal people.

And I think it still is, as long as you are talking about real fascism.

In my opinion Antifa have become the fascists and are quick to try shut up and rebrand anybody that dares disagree with their views.

[GboroRam]

4 minutes ago, ossieram said:

And I think it still is, as long as you are talking about real fascism.

In my opinion Antifa have become the fascists and are quick to try shut up and rebrand anybody that dares disagree with their views.

I think we had this conversation earlier. Can you confirm you honestly mean they have become the fascists? Maybe read back about 2 or 3 weeks to my discussion with Maxjam.

[maxjam]

7 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I think we had this conversation earlier. Can you confirm you honestly mean they have become the fascists? Maybe read back about 2 or 3 weeks to my discussion with Maxjam.

I'll save him the bother...

Definition of fascism (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism)

1: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

 

Not facists as the word is commonly used, but certainly displaying elements of fascism imo.   Opposing far-rght rallies is one thing, getting people deplatformed or protesting democratic elections because you disagree with them is another.  

The militant left have no more right than the far right to decide what free speech is. 

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

Not facists as the word is commonly used, but certainly displaying elements of fascism imo.   Opposing far-rght rallies is one thing, getting people deplatformed or protesting democratic elections because you disagree with them is another.  

The militant left have no more right than the far right to decide what free speech is. 

Well, if exposing people's true selves is being part of the militant left, guilty as charged.  Nobody blocked anyone's right to free speech - but there are consequences. If you are out there being a bigot, you deserve everything you get.

[ossieram]

10 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I think we had this conversation earlier. Can you confirm you honestly mean they have become the fascists? Maybe read back about 2 or 3 weeks to my discussion with Maxjam.

Ok maybe not, but I think the name of the group is misleading and they are probably more anti-nationlists and closer to anarchists than anything else.

They are also anti democratic and are quick to oppose and shut others down (sometimes violently) if they disagree with their views and would probably be very happy to live in a dictatorship if they were the dictators.

[maxjam]

7 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Well, if exposing people's true selves is being part of the militant left, guilty as charged.  Nobody blocked anyone's right to free speech - but there are consequences. If you are out there being a bigot, you deserve everything you get.

Off the top of my head both Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson have had events cancelled due to Antifa in the US - you may not like them but they defintely don't spout hate speech.  And whilst they are a lot smaller in the UK, Antifa groups did protest the result of the General Election.

Free speech is being restricted and democracy is being challenged by angry people who simply disagree with the view points of others. 

If the image attached was from a far right group there would be outrage (and rightly so) but because its Antifa, its okay.  Nothing to see here, move along...

[GboroRam]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Off the top of my head both Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson have had events cancelled due to Antifa in the US - you may not like them but they defintely don't spout hate speech.  And whilst they are a lot smaller in the UK, Antifa groups did protest the result of the General Election.

Free speech is being restricted and democracy is being challenged by angry people who simply disagree with the view points of others. 

If the image attached was from a far right group there would be outrage (and rightly so) but because its Antifa, its okay.  Nothing to see here, move along...

I've always said that the US and the UK aren't comparable.

And the right to demonstration is a fundamental right. I don't agree with violent protest though, as I've said. Violent opposition to organised far right rallies (of real fascists) I fully support.

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I think we had this conversation earlier. Can you confirm you honestly mean they have become the fascists? Maybe read back about 2 or 3 weeks to my discussion with Maxjam.