G STAR RAM Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 19 hours ago, GboroRam said: All the narrative around the referendum was we will get a great deal, Germany won't let us stop buying their cars, we're more important to them than they are to us. Every time the narrative changes, we're told that's what people wanted all along. And the narrative from Remain clearly highlighted the fact that No Deal was a possibility and a reversion to WTO rules. It may have passed you by but we actually got a deal. One that Remainers should be happy with as it kept us closely tied into the EU. The fact it has been voted down is nothing to do with the deal, more the fact that people are still trying to overturn the result. Shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Germany 1933, springs to mind. 30 January 1933 was the day: Von Hindenburg gave in and appointed Hitler chancellor. ‘It is like a dream. The Wilhelmstraße is ours', Joseph Goebbels, the future Minister of Propaganda, wrote in his diary. So, although Hitler was not elected by the German people, he still came to power in a legal way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 hours ago, GboroRam said: I like the anti eu BBC Say 17.4 million voted to leave but they failed to mention the 29 million that didn’t Yet again another Mr Loophole desperate to try to convince yourself you are right. Just accept it and get on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 21 hours ago, Uptherams said: No Deal will be fine. It's the Commies taking to the streets, to prevent other people working and spending money that will be damaging. Total hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Shameful. Perhaps ... maybe .... But language needs to defused while people keep talking at all levels. Apart from one awful incident and a lot of milk shake throwing type nastiness the whole thing is still reasonably civilised. People are arguing about process, law and debating opportunities rather than assembling barrel bombs. We have to hang onto that for grim death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: And the narrative from Remain clearly highlighted the fact that No Deal was a possibility and a reversion to WTO rules. It may have passed you by but we actually got a deal. One that Remainers should be happy with as it kept us closely tied into the EU. The fact it has been voted down is nothing to do with the deal, more the fact that people are still trying to overturn the result. Shameful. Actually I would have gone along with May's deal. I'd have preferred to have stayed in but it was preferable to a crash out, no deal. I still think we have to leave - those who supported leave need to see there's no paradise. But of course that will be the EUs fault. I promise we'll be having this discussion later and you'll be blaming the EU for the predicament of the country. Just wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Van Gritters said: Yet again another Mr Loophole desperate to try to convince yourself you are right. Just accept it and get on with it. No, just showing you your argument about who wasn't protesting is a stupid thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: It may have passed you by but we actually got a deal. One that Remainers should be happy with as it kept us closely tied into the EU. The fact it has been voted down is nothing to do with the deal, more the fact that people are still trying to overturn the result. Shameful. The irony being it's the hardline brexiteers in the Tory Party who ultimately voted it down - because it wasn't Brexit-y enough. They were the difference between it getting passed and not passed. The same people who are now saying we will leave "no matter what it takes". Where was that attitutude when they "couldn't bring themselves to vote for" the Withdrawal agreement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 The Brexit monster needs to be slain, once and for all. Unfortunately, the only way that may happen is by us leaving on October 31 and for it to be as awful as the 'experts' predicted for the next few years. Even then, there will be people blaming those who broadcast the warnings loud and clear for not 'getting behind the programme'. Now, just today, we have Gove saying that there will be no shortages of fresh foodstuffs at all - a statement immediately and categorically refuted by the British Retail Consortium as 'blatantly untrue'. The same message about the availability of certain medicines from the government has been just as emphatically called out by people in the NHS. Experts, eh? Why should we be surprised? Johnson himself is an outrageous liar - only a few weeks ago when he was campaigning for the Conservative leadership he claimed that he would 'never use archaic methods like proroguing Parliament - he would win the argument instead'. Now he is using tactics straight out of the Erdogan playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 51 minutes ago, Montgolfier said: we have Gove saying that there will be no shortages of fresh foodstuffs at all - a statement immediately and categorically refuted by the British Retail Consortium as 'blatantly untrue' He didn't say 'fresh food' he just said 'everyone will have enough food' so get used to Pot Noodles and pasta for six months while we all work this out. Gove also refused to confirm that his cabal of Bullingdon Club wiff waff players would follow the recommendation of Parliament, you need to read that again if you didn't quite get what sits inside that statement. Dominic Cummings has notified Conservative MPs that if they vote for the extension legislation next week, they will be "automatically deselected" before the next election. It's not quite what this country is used to, to say the least. Seriously, I'm a fervent believer this is a disaster of a move to leave the EU but even I could support a position that said 'we've had enough talking, we're just going to get this done now and to do that we need to cut the chat and just get on with doing'. But this is not that, this is really dangerous abuse of our democratic process. What is happening here is beyond what we could even have feared in our worst estimates and is totally akin to the role of a dictator. I don't say that makes BoJoke some sort of neo-Hitler but I do say they are acting totally beyond any position that they have been empowered to do so (even by the miniscule percentage of our island that actually put them there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: He didn't say 'fresh food' From the Daily Telegraph... Quote The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said that while some food prices would increase in the event of a No Deal Brexit, "everyone will have the food they need". "There will be no shortages of fresh food," he said. Actually, if the Daily Telegraph are saying that Gove said precisely what I stated, then there is in fact a very good chance that he didn't say it at all, so I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 It's important that brexit and prorogation are separated here. Brexit is what it is (or isn't) and the causation of much debate, occasional dialogue and a considerable amount of point scoring. Prorogation is the deliberate denial of that. It is someone using something that they know they shouldn't (else why deny that they're doing it, as they obviously are) to get what they want. No matter what. It will accidentally (or deliberately) increase social tensions and could quite easily cause some people to react against it in such a way that further actions from the government will be considered and then implemented in a way that the government will probably find easy to justify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, dog said: It's important that brexit and prorogation are separated here. Brexit is what it is (or isn't) and the causation of much debate, occasional dialogue and a considerable amount of point scoring. Prorogation is the deliberate denial of that. It is someone using something that they know they shouldn't (else why deny that they're doing it, as they obviously are) to get what they want. No matter what. It will accidentally (or deliberately) increase social tensions and could quite easily cause some people to react against it in such a way that further actions from the government will be considered and then implemented in a way that the government will probably find easy to justify. Agreed. It's on the first page of Dictatorship For Dummies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: The irony being it's the hardline brexiteers in the Tory Party who ultimately voted it down - because it wasn't Brexit-y enough. They were the difference between it getting passed and not passed. Yeah, let's ignore the hundreds of other votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 42 minutes ago, Norman said: Yeah, let's ignore the hundreds of other votes. The fact that Boris Johnson and 114 other Tories voted against Theresa May's deal is a big pile for you to brush under the carpet, is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, Norman said: Yeah, let's ignore the hundreds of other votes. You mean from the opposition parties, opposing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, GboroRam said: Actually I would have gone along with May's deal. I'd have preferred to have stayed in but it was preferable to a crash out, no deal. I still think we have to leave - those who supported leave need to see there's no paradise. But of course that will be the EUs fault. I promise we'll be having this discussion later and you'll be blaming the EU for the predicament of the country. Just wait and see. The EU will be bogeymen for duckers like Johnson and his cronies for years to come. None of these flag-waving freaks will ever take responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound 2 tease Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 hours ago, BaaLocks said: . Dominic Cummings has notified Conservative MPs that if they vote for the extension legislation next week, they will be "automatically deselected" before the next election. It's not quite what this country is used to, to say the least. Bit thick this Dom Chap, isn't he..., I wonder if this threat would have any effect on the following days vote of no confidence in the government...or will it presaude more conservatives to side with the opposition groping ? I imagine call for a vote of no confidence ,will be made immediately after the result of extension vote, if it is negative in Boris's eyes. Cummings is quite obviously bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Michael Gove's comments a little chilling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 hours ago, GboroRam said: You mean from the opposition parties, opposing? Obviously, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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