The Politics Thread 2019

[i-Ram]

42 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

37% of the voting population voted leave, that is not a majority.  28% opted not to vote, as they probably thought it was a daft question and was happy with the status quo

Well that 28% might want to get off their arse next time. Lesson hopefully learned for any future referendum, but I doubt it.

Of those who did vote, the majority voted to leave unconditionally (unless there was something on their voting form which was not on mine).

I generally have little time for Johnson, but I take my hat off to him.  He has taken the view that democracy has delivered a result, and has made it his mission to deliver the leave decision. Good. That is what should have been done before (too much time has been wasted).

When we are out we can all individually and collectively reassess the position we are in, and it could be better and it might be worse.  But democracy will have been served, and democracy can kicks straight back in again. We will all have the opportunity in the future to vote again, be it at elections or another referendum.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, McRamFan said:

37% of the voting population voted leave, that is not a majority.  28% opted not to vote, as they probably thought it was a daft question and was happy with the status quo

Yeah probably. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, McRamFan said:

37% of the voting population voted leave, that is not a majority.  28% opted not to vote, as they probably thought it was a daft question and was happy with the status quo

Forgot to say, dont forget to actually read my post, nowhere did I mention a majority.

[Uptherams]

2 hours ago, McRamFan said:

37% of the voting population voted leave, that is not a majority.  28% opted not to vote, as they probably thought it was a daft question and was happy with the status quo

Sorry no, that's not how it works. None voters don't accept the status quo pre-election they accept the outcome of one. 

[BaaLocks]

4 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

They can insist all they like but if the UK and Ireland both say they can't, due to the GFA, then what can the EU do about it?.

Refuse to sign any trading agreements until it is clear? The UK / Irish border is such a critical element of the deal and given the political capital it has had throughout I can't see how the EU can now sign any trading relations with us while this is still an open point. And no deal is a perfect way to bring it to the fore of any discussion that happens.

I sure hope BoJoke has got his Dixons loyalty card at hand coz all this amazing technology that he swears is ready to roll will certainly be needed if he does crash out on October 31st.

[BaaLocks]

22 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Sorry no, that's not how it works. None voters don't accept the status quo pre-election they accept the outcome of one. 

Oh but they do in the grand scheme of things. They are voters who will choose their next leader at the next general election. If they feel Brexit was not handled in the way they can tolerate then good luck BoJoke on getting re-elected - irrespective of whether they voted Leave, Remain or sat on their BWA on June 23rd.

Of course, and it saddens me to say it, the question they will then have to ask is whether Corbyn is a realistic alternative - but my point still stands that, now, their vote in the next general election is the one that matters more than what they did in the referendum.

[BaaLocks]

4 hours ago, Highgate said:

How idiotic do you think the EU are?  Don't you think they have some concept of self-preservation?

Do you honestly think they would give a better trade deal to a country that has just left the EU?  Thereby encouraging every other country in the EU to queue up to exit the EU too.

Any trade deal the UK will get with the EU after Brexit will be considerably worse than it is now. It has to be so, or the European Union will cease to exist.  That fact is the most fundamental and blatantly obvious outcome of any Brexit. 

And it will include any point that they wish to put in there - including insistence on the Irish border - before a single block of cheese, pharmaceutical or car part is shipped. For what is supposed to be a team of crack negotiators, the UK is racing headlong into having its pants pulled down and getting it full bore up the poo pipe.

[BaaLocks]

8 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It’s a stark choice for Tories- parliament or party. I have a feeling I know which way they will go. 

Which is why Corbyn has about one week to save his political future - he needs to come out and say 'these are extreme times, we will help you get this over the line, on non-party lines, get the deals signed and then - once that is done - we go back to fighting this on party lines'. He is so mired in party politics that he can't see that would guarantee we sort out Brexit in a way he can then blame on the Tories plus all but guarantee his route into Downing Street.

[G STAR RAM]

24 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

And it will include any point that they wish to put in there - including insistence on the Irish border - before a single block of cheese, pharmaceutical or car part is shipped. For what is supposed to be a team of crack negotiators, the UK is racing headlong into having its pants pulled down and getting it full bore up the poo pipe.

And guess what...the UK can reciprocate, not a single German car over our borders until a deal is agreed. Wonder how long the EU would hold their position? I imagine Germany are already going to be picking up the tab for us leaving, wonder if they would be happy losing our trade too?

[AndyinLiverpool]

29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

And guess what...the UK can reciprocate, not a single German car over our borders until a deal is agreed. Wonder how long the EU would hold their position? I imagine Germany are already going to be picking up the tab for us leaving, wonder if they would be happy losing our trade too?

Not those German car manufacturers again. They have kept pretty quiet for the last 3 years, especially given they are supposed to be the great saviours.

[GboroRam]

Clearly the Brexit divide on this forum is between those people who feel that the EU will feel the loss of 10%* of their export market will be most painful, and those people who feel that the UK will feel the loss of 50%* of their export market will be most painful. 

*figures pulled out of my 'arris. 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

12 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

UTR - we agree on almost nothing politically (to the point where the Mods asked us politely to call a truce in the old Brexit thread!) - but I am not afraid to say that you are 100% correct here in your analysis.

The fact that the mainstream parties all campaigned badly on a remain ticket underlined that for a lot of people. If you're sick of the way nothing has ever really changed in politics, then suddenly you are given the chance to vote against the status quo - that is always going to appeal.

I genuinely think it was that "protest vote" sector who ultimately swung the referendum. And who can blame them really. The blame has to wholly rest with the political parties who left them feeling so disenfranchised

 

Spot on there. When in France and people ask me why Britain voted to leave I always refer to the number of votes the national front get in the French elections. Does it mean that large percentage of the French population is racist ? I don't think so but people say we tried the left, we tried the right and b*****r all happens, it's all the same merde. That way, Le Pen father and daughter gather protest votes with no creditable plans, and have been doing for years now, sadly.

The twist is, unlike elections  there is no second round in a referendum if you wish to change a protest vote.

[G STAR RAM]

27 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Clearly the Brexit divide on this forum is between those people who feel that the EU will feel the loss of 10%* of their export market will be most painful, and those people who feel that the UK will feel the loss of 50%* of their export market will be most painful. 

*figures pulled out of my 'arris. 

Is it really important who will feel the loss most? 

Both sides will be impacted which is why it is ridiculous that after 3 years there is still no agreement in place.

[cstand]

3 hours ago, King Kevin said:

Interesting

When you think Christie Lagarde who got the job of the EU Central Bank who is a lawyer and been fined guilty of financial misconduct but this woman who is a banker who worked for Goldman Sachs and bank of China has been overlooked for the top job only because she hates people wasting taxpayers money sums up the EU. 

[G STAR RAM]

12 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

I genuinely think it was that "protest vote" sector who ultimately swung the referendum. And who can blame them really. The blame has to wholly rest with the political parties who left them feeling so disenfranchised

Not sure what you mean by a protest vote?

The protest for many was against the EU and their lack of willingness to reform, arrogantly thinking nobody would ever leave their political project.

[GboroRam]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Is it really important who will feel the loss most? 

Both sides will be impacted which is why it is ridiculous that after 3 years there is still no agreement in place.

You are right. When the mosquito bites me, and I give it a good slap, does it matter who feels it the most? Both sides are impacted. 

[G STAR RAM]

18 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

You are right. When the mosquito bites me, and I give it a good slap, does it matter who feels it the most? Both sides are impacted. 

So the UK are heading to death but just a little nick for the EU?

Perhaps you can explain who will be replacing the UK contributions and explain how the EU will overcome the loss of trade with us?

[Highgate]

4 hours ago, King Kevin said:

Interesting

Shocking lurch to the right for the forum to be posting clips of the far-right politician Dr Weidel.  Germany's Le Pen.  Her distaste for immigrants and even southern Europeans isn't difficult to discern in her speech.

Any yet she does have a point that the EU should have been more sympathetic to the UK's concerns in the years preceding Brexit and by all but ignoring the UK's requests they are partially responsible for Brexit themselves. 

And she is also correct that the EU requires reform from within.  I just hope that if and when those reforms do take place, Weidel and her ilk won't be heavily involved in the decision making process or the EU could turn into something truly nasty. 

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Perhaps you can explain

Maybe when you explain your dodgy comment about Rotherham?

[alexxxxx]

7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

So the UK are heading to death but just a little nick for the EU?

Perhaps you can explain who will be replacing the UK contributions and explain how the EU will overcome the loss of trade with us?

The EU will just reduce its capital grants to make up for it. Considerable sums are transferred to the poorer areas of the EU for infrastructure so I guess this money will just fall. Its not going to stop the EU from functioning as its operational budget is quite small. 

The EU wont lose any trade with the UK as the UK said they wouldn't put tarrifs up (!). 

The EU is expanding its internal market with growing economies in Eastern Europe and has recently signed new trade arrangements with Canada, Japan and South America.