The Politics Thread 2019

[WhiteHorseRam]

4 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

• 79% of food in supermarkets comes from the EU
• Britain imports £30.3bn worth of food from the EU each year, yet exports £12.3bn
• £400m of tomatoes, mainly from the Netherlands, 99% of frozen potatoes (chips) are from the EU
• 98% of all lamb produced in the UK is exported to the EU. In the event of a no-deal Brexit that would, overnight, face a 40% tariff
• The Royal Pharmaceutical Society has already warned that they are stretched to stockpile on anti-depressants and painkillers
• We import more than we export from Germany, Netherlands, Spain, France, Belgium and Italy
• Germany sells about one in seven of all cars it makes in the UK, though it does export more to the UK than any other single country

But you keep telling yourself that old and tired story that the inability for BMW to not sell all their cars on November 1st is going to panic them into submission within days. And nobody, here or elsewhere, is able to confirm whether or not the EU would willingly trade with a non-EU partner that has a porous border with one of it's neighours.

Look, I get that we are a big country - no sensible body, even the EU and all that it is, will burn every bridge out of sheer spite. But we are proposing to enter into a no deal scenario willingly and of our own unilateral volition. In that case it isn't the EU that is to blame, we will have done this to ourselves.

Eh? 

I think you've got that all wrong mate. This is what will happen -

The Empire Strikes Back -  India, Canada etc will be begging to re-constitute the Empire.  The former will most likely present HM with a diamond the size of a grapefruit and a troop of body-popping elephants, just like in olden times.

Uncle Donald is going to give us a wonderous trade deal overnight. No strings.

Oh, and getting an amazing trade deal with the EU will be a 'cinch'. It will in fact be the easiest deal ever done. Think I read that somewhere. Meanwhile, while the tomatoes are being sorted out, we can survive on our strategic rice pudding and stilton reserves.

Stop worrying.

[Highgate]

45 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Hence why I very rarely post links to things.

If I read something I will post it and am always happy for it to be challenged if people have evidence to the contrary.

However, on the whole, most challenges just tend to be articles from a different point of view that are dressed up as fact by certain posters.

Nefarious certain posters.  I hate those guys.  Troublemakers.  You know who you are!

[BaaLocks]

30 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

Eh? 

I think you've got that all wrong mate. This is what will happen -

The Empire Strikes Back -  India, Canada etc will be begging to re-constitute the Empire.  The former will most likely present HM with a diamond the size of a grapefruit and a troop of body-popping elephants, just like in olden times.

Uncle Donald is going to give us a wonderous trade deal overnight. No strings.

Oh, and getting an amazing trade deal with the EU will be a 'cinch'. It will in fact be the easiest deal ever done. Think I read that somewhere. Meanwhile, while the tomatoes are being sorted out, we can survive on our strategic rice pudding and stilton reserves.

Stop worrying.

[1967Ram]

This made me smile. Especially around 1.15.

 

[Stive Pesley]

Here's a genuine question for the  Leave voters amongst my fellow Rams

Assuming that we definitely leave on 31st October (as Mr Johnson emphatically promises)...

What's on your wish list for things you want the government to enact that EU membership currently prevents it from doing?

 

[Joe.]

7 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

99% of frozen potatoes (chips) are from the EU

I'm sure this is wrong, McCain's alone buy about 20% of all potatoes produced in the UK, and I'm sure they make more than 1% of the frozen market. I'm sure we import some but I don't think it's quite as extreme as that

[Wolfie]

10 minutes ago, Joe. said:

I'm sure this is wrong, McCain's alone buy about 20% of all potatoes produced in the UK, and I'm sure they make more than 1% of the frozen market. I'm sure we import some but I don't think it's quite as extreme as that

It is. What it should say is that 99% of imported frozen potato products come from the EU.

Not that 99% of frozen spuds consumed in the UK are imported from the EU.

Imports are relatively small - at about 10% of UK production.

I know a bit about UK spuds.....

[Joe.]

7 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

It is. What it should say is that 99% of imported frozen potato products come from the EU.

Not that 99% of frozen spuds consumed in the UK are imported from the EU.

Imports are relatively small - at about 10% of UK production.

I know a bit about UK spuds.....

Ah that makes more sense, yes company i work for packs a couple too

[BaaLocks]

25 minutes ago, Joe. said:

I'm sure this is wrong, McCain's alone buy about 20% of all potatoes produced in the UK, and I'm sure they make more than 1% of the frozen market. I'm sure we import some but I don't think it's quite as extreme as that

You're correct, my mistake and I apologise.

@Van Wolfie has corrected me perfectly - 99% of all imported potatoes come from the EU.

Just to put the other side on this, EU countries will suffer also. Netherlands is estimated to be at risk of losing €4.5bn of trade, Ireland 4% of output, 750,000 of those famous German cars per year.

You won't get economists to agree on much but the one thing they are pretty much aligned on is that nobody wins a trade war and a no deal without contingency puts us immediately in the middle of one - for every product category.

Well, not quite - shouldn't be all doom and gloom about everything. As per August 14th we had trading agreements in place with the following countries so if you want some pilot whale meat, Toblerone, new false teeth or a big fat Samsung HDTV at least that is sorted. And it's taken us three years to get these signed......

• South Korea
• Central America
• Andean countries
• Norway and Iceland
• Caribbean countries
• Pacific Islands
• Liechtenstein
• Israel
• Palestinian Authority
• Switzerland
• The Faroe Islands
• Eastern and Southern Africa
• Chile

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

Here's a genuine question for the  Leave voters amongst my fellow Rams

Assuming that we definitely leave on 31st October (as Mr Johnson emphatically promises)...

What's on your wish list for things you want the government to enact that EU membership currently prevents it from doing?

A suspension on the free movement of people.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, Highgate said:

Nefarious certain posters.  I hate those guys.  Troublemakers.  You know who you are!

Dont worry, you're safe, quite enjoy reading your views to be honest.

They are usually quite informative and usually posted in a respectful manner.

[Highgate]

27 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Dont worry, you're safe, quite enjoy reading your views to be honest.

They are usually quite informative and usually posted in a respectful manner.

Thank you, and I appreciate the 'usually'.  Gives me some wiggle room for a few ill-informed and disrespectful posts in future.  ? 

[Stive Pesley]

37 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

A suspension on the free movement of people.

Making the assumption that you mean "from EU countries" and you mean "movement" in the one-way incoming sense. What's your rationale? That surely has knock-on effects to the labour market. Or do you mean temporary suspension while we sort out a points-based immigration system?

[G STAR RAM]

50 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Making the assumption that you mean "from EU countries" and you mean "movement" in the one-way incoming sense. What's your rationale? That surely has knock-on effects to the labour market. Or do you mean temporary suspension while we sort out a points-based immigration system?

Correct.

 

[G STAR RAM]

52 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Thank you, and I appreciate the 'usually'.  Gives me some wiggle room for a few ill-informed and disrespectful posts in future.  ? 

Wasn't even the need for the word usually in the sentence to be fair.

I know we have widely opposing views but that does not me from respecting your opinion and carrying out research into what you are saying.

 

[Gritstone Ram]

5 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Here's a genuine question for the  Leave voters amongst my fellow Rams

Assuming that we definitely leave on 31st October (as Mr Johnson emphatically promises)...

What's on your wish list for things you want the government to enact that EU membership currently prevents it from doing?

 

Tax goods from the EU.

[GboroRam]

22 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

Tax goods from the EU.

And the rest of the world under most favoured nation rules, leaving us without sufficient food? 

Or reduce/eliminate tax on goods across the world under MFN rules, meaning a glut of cheap food produced by intensive methods and poorer quality standards, devastating UK producers? 

What a choice. 

If we were seriously preparing for no deal, shouldn't we have been ramping up our production capacity for the last 3 years? 

[Gritstone Ram]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

And the rest of the world under most favoured nation rules, leaving us without sufficient food? 

Or reduce/eliminate tax on goods across the world under MFN rules, meaning a glut of cheap food produced by intensive methods and poorer quality standards, devastating UK producers? 

What a choice. 

If we were seriously preparing for no deal, shouldn't we have been ramping up our production capacity for the last 3 years? 

I thought we should reduce our carbon footprint and make/produce more home grown stuff for ourselves.

[Eddie]

18 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

Tax goods from the EU.

I'm afraid all that does is increases prices paid by consumers. That doesn't just mean completed goods which are imported - that also means that the prices paid by British companies for components imported from the EU which they then use to manufacture goods will increase. This has a further knock-on effect of stifling British exports when the companies try to sell them overseas because, if the tariffs on the imported goods are high (and under the much-lauded WTO rules loved by fans of Mr Rees-Mogg they are - we cannot just charge what we like, we HAVE TO play by the rules), then those exports become uncompetitive and the buyer will just look elsewhere.

"Let's make the components ourselves" you might say. Well, the average motor car has something like 2500 parts, and many of those 'parts' are themselves comprised of hundreds or thousands of components themselves. That's an awful lot of new industries you are going to have to set up from scratch - and an awful lot of expertise you are going to have to import, which doesn't do a lot of good for the earlier poster's wish for the suspension of migration.

Complicated, but not insurmountable, of course.

From my own selfish point of view, I am dreading November 1. My medication is manufactured by Bayer in Germany.

[GboroRam]

Just now, Van Gritters said:

I thought we should reduce our carbon footprint and make/produce more home grown stuff for ourselves.

That's my point - if we were seriously preparing, why didn't we increase our capacity to produce food in the time we've had? Woefully underprepared. It may even require some nationalisation, just to be sure we are ready. But Boris and the Tories would never agree to that. 

Likewise, in all possible options, Tory voters said that they preferred to cancel Brexit than see Corbyn in number 10.