ariotofmyown Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 1 hour ago, CWC1983 said: Meanwhile, as we all debate the pro's and con's of brexit, some people are getting rich on it...... Pretty disgusting all round. Would be interesting to hear the pro-Brexit view on this. I assume they must think this is wrong, but is it a minor detail or evidence of the whole thinking stinking to high heaven. At least Crispin is sticking it to those pesky elites right? Wouldn't see Farage doing this sort of thing. Apart from been given stacks of cash by Arron Banks. Wonder how much he will make from a no deal Brexit. Whilst the Brexiteers on here may have there own reasons for wanting to leave the EU, do they realise that the main champions of leave are doing it to line their own pockets/their friends pockets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I've yet to see anyone explain how the shorting of shares benefits the economy/society as a whole, I don't see why it's not illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 No Deal will be fine. It's the Commies taking to the streets, to prevent other people working and spending money that will be damaging. Total hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 What I don’t get is people saying no one voted for a no deal. People voted to leave no mention of deals at all leave was what was voted for democratically and fairly. What is not democratic is voting at every opportunity against leaving against the result of the referendum. All this Noel Edmunds crap about deals has never been on the cards just something people have made up to try to stop us leaving the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 16 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: What I don’t get is people saying no one voted for a no deal. People voted to leave no mention of deals at all leave was what was voted for democratically and fairly. What is not democratic is voting at every opportunity against leaving against the result of the referendum. All this Noel Edmunds crap about deals has never been on the cards just something people have made up to try to stop us leaving the EU. All the narrative around the referendum was we will get a great deal, Germany won't let us stop buying their cars, we're more important to them than they are to us. Every time the narrative changes, we're told that's what people wanted all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: What I don’t get is people saying no one voted for a no deal. People voted to leave no mention of deals at all leave was what was voted for democratically and fairly. What is not democratic is voting at every opportunity against leaving against the result of the referendum. All this Noel Edmunds crap about deals has never been on the cards just something people have made up to try to stop us leaving the EU. Vote Leave's website April 2016: 'Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden step - we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: Appreciate the thoughtful reply. I see many others have replied. If the EU puts up a hard border then it shows me that it's the sort of body I don't want to be a member of. I've heard dozens of global customs experts say there's absolutely no need and the EU is simply being lazy because logistically it's just easier to put an invisible border in the Irish Sea, based on ports. But it's categorically not necessary and you can have an invisible land border now. They're just too bureaucratic and systems driven to agree to it. Yes, it would be far easier to have an invisible border in the Irish Sea. But that's precisely what the DUP won't accept. They feel that would drive a wedge between them and the rest of the UK and their fundamental reason for being is to prevent any such separation from happening.....ever! Hence the backstop was made a UK wide backstop. I don't wish to single them out (and I could obviously be accused of bias against them), but without the DUP this whole backstop mess would have been avoided. If as you say an invisible border is possible even after a no deal Brexit, then how much simpler it would have been with a 'deal' or 'soft' Brexit. I assume you believe a hard border would have been absolutely unnecessary then too. If that's the case then the backstop would never have been used, and people need not have worried about it at all, whether it was N.Ireland wide or applied to all of the UK. Some interesting points regarding the current failings of the EU. I don't think even the most ardent Remainer in this forum think the EU is not in need of considerable reform. It clearly needs it, and it's future is clearly in the balance. However, when the UK is being led out of the EU by Johnson, Farage and Rees-Mogg it's only natural to fear for the future of the UK itself. Johnson can't even tell people the real reason why he wants to suspend parliament. When asked he just engages in an obvious sustained blatant lie. I know all politicians lie, but he's just a natural. If I were a UK citizen, I'd be appalled that he is the Prime Minister. The EU will be worse off without the UK. I liked the UK's natural counterbalance to Germany and France's desire for ever closer integration. I think the UK would have been a major player in helping shape a better future for the EU, just as long as those aforementioned characters were nowhere to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, Highgate said: Yes, it would be far easier to have an invisible border in the Irish Sea. But that's precisely what the DUP won't accept. They feel that would drive a wedge between them and the rest of the UK and their fundamental reason for being is to prevent any such separation from happening.....ever! Hence the backstop was made a UK wide backstop. I don't wish to single them out (and I could obviously be accused of bias against them), but without the DUP this whole backstop mess would have been avoided. If as you say an invisible border is possible even after a no deal Brexit, then how much simpler it would have been with a 'deal' or 'soft' Brexit. I assume you believe a hard border would have been absolutely unnecessary then too. If that's the case then the backstop would never have been used, and people need not have worried about it at all, whether it was N.Ireland wide or applied to all of the UK. Some interesting points regarding the current failings of the EU. I don't think even the most ardent Remainer in this forum think the EU is not in need of considerable reform. It clearly needs it, and it's future is clearly in the balance. However, when the UK is being led out of the EU by Johnson, Farage and Rees-Mogg it's only natural to fear for the future of the UK itself. Johnson can't even tell people the real reason why he wants to suspend parliament. When asked he just engages in an obvious sustained blatant lie. I know all politicians lie, but he's just a natural. If I were a UK citizen, I'd be appalled that he is the Prime Minister. The EU will be worse off without the UK. I liked the UK's natural counterbalance to Germany and France's desire for ever closer integration. I think the UK would have been a major player in helping shape a better future for the EU, just as long as those aforementioned characters were nowhere to be seen. I am and I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 3 hours ago, 1967Ram said: Vote Leave's website April 2016: 'Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden step - we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave' Did you vote leave based upon that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/blair-signs-new-eu-constitution-535500.html This is where it all goes wrong there should have been a referendum there and then and we wouldn't be in this mess now .Disgraceful that this was railroaded through and people are whinging about shutting down Parliament now. I guess most people would be happy with what we had when we first joined, a free trade area only but that's long gone in the rush for a United States of Europe .The EU have bent every rule in the book on economy convergence to expand the EU which again is a root cause of the unbalanced economics with the few paying for the many. There was an earlier post stating the good the EU does financing projects in this country ,it's our money in the first place for gods sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Van Gritters said: Did you vote leave based upon that? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, 1967Ram said: No So why do you make such and issue about it? Is it a remainer that doesn’t like the result of a democratic referendum and is either clutching at straws or looking for loopholes to try to change a democratic vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Van Gritters said: What I don’t get is people saying no one voted for a no deal. People voted to leave no mention of deals at all leave was what was voted for democratically and fairly. What is not democratic is voting at every opportunity against leaving against the result of the referendum. All this Noel Edmunds crap about deals has never been on the cards just something people have made up to try to stop us leaving the EU. 2 hours ago, Van Gritters said: So why do you make such and issue about it? Is it a remainer that doesn’t like the result of a democratic referendum and is either clutching at straws or looking for loopholes to try to change a democratic vote. I'm not making such an issue about it. I was just pointing out what, in my opinion, was an inaccuracy in your post. I voted to remain but I accept the result from the democratic referendum. I don't think most leave voters had in mind a no deal BREXIT when they made their choice. This would appear to be supported by the YouGov poll from 3 days ago (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/08/29/search-median-voter-brexit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 7 hours ago, 1967Ram said: Vote Leave's website April 2016: 'Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden step - we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave' By ' legal process to leave ' did that mean triggering article 50 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, bigbadbob said: By ' legal process to leave ' did that mean triggering article 50 ? I don't know to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 26 minutes ago, 1967Ram said: I don't know to be honest. Oh right. Ok, cheers anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I like the pro eu BBC Say thousands protested but they failed to mention the millions that didn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posh Ram Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Van Gritters said: I like the pro eu BBC Say thousands protested but they failed to mention the millions that didn’t. That's like saying 'I love how the pro-bus crash BBC reported that a bus crashed today but failed to mention all the buses that successfully reached their destination'. Besides, the turnout at the pro-Leave protests tends to get plenty of coverage despite embarrassingly low numbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Van Gritters said: I like the pro eu BBC Say thousands protested but they failed to mention the millions that didn’t. I like the anti eu BBC Say 17.4 million voted to leave but they failed to mention the 29 million that didn’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I like the pro-leave voters now been behind a closing down of parliament so a no deal Brexit can be forced through, when they were originally told that leaving the EU would be an easy and controlled process where we would have a great deal. It is surely be possibly to be pro-leave and anti-trashing of democracy, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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