Rowett - In or Out?

[jagerbob]

11 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

This is just false logic...we did it and in hindsight (and at the time) it was a mistake. So why do it again? Let's try the alternative where you give someone a chance to put things right instead of getting someone else who does things totally differently and needs a season to overhaul again.

Touche.

Fans, media, are all fickle.

manager of the months and flavour of the month are based purely on results and if your not a big name it adds even more spice.

Just like with Johnson at bristol city, how long ago were premiership clubs being touted after him.

All this after death threats and constant negitivity from suppporters towards him, turns into the next big thing.. then hes reverted to type and back to being bang average purely cos their results have tailed off.

[MikeS]

Whatever we do, we don't replace GR with Mick M. He would probably sort out the bottlers and weak links early on because (to his credit in this particular case), he doesn't take prisoners. But after that, if you think Rowett's football has been boring or dross, just wait to see what Mick does with a team.  His relationship with Ipswich ended in open hostility with some fans. Was a time when Town were rightly regarded as a solid football team who played the game well.  So were we. Now we play about so much, we even beat ourselves.

If Rowett is to survive, he needs to properly consider his tactical options and put a new plan into place. And tell most of those players out there a few home truths in a none too polite fashion.

[Leicester Ram]

We’ve fallen into the trap of overrating Clement and now Rowett because they’re young and talked well in the press.

How well someone gets on with Owen Bradley shouldn’t be a barometer of how good a manager is.

If a Roy Hodgson or Martin O’Neill, basically an older manager who doesn’t have the benefit of youth, had been making the transfer moves and setting the team up the way Rowett has, they wouldn’t have been praised. His youth has painted backwards moves as forwards ones.

He and a lot of people on here have scoffed at the criticisms of the team, this regime has hardly acknowledged the flaws that were plainly obvious and the contradictions of this rebuild being nothing of the sort.

At least with McClaren there was a clear template for how he’d like to set up, which we knew could be successful. Has Rowett really shown anything resembling that?

The defence is/was solid but it’s only because our attack is such an afterthought. He got very lucky in inheriting Vydra because otherwise his attacking set-up really is dismal.

I don’t think you can really praise his defence anymore (obviously it’s dropped off massively anyway, it’s literally not good) but it’s cost us so much balance as a team. We’re embarrasingly unbalanced, we set up with 6 outfield players dedicated to defending, sometimes 7 if Johnson plays on the wing. No wonder we don’t create any chances.

It’s obscene that he won’t play Palmer and Vydra together, ******* obscene. It’s not like Lawrence has been playing well, he could probably do with a break, why wouldn’t you put Palmer in? It’s astounding and really worrying.

His disdain for passing, possession and attacking flair is such an undesirable trait in a manager, it’s not a problem those aren’t his priorities but you can tell from his treatment of Hughes, his comments on former Derby teams and teams like Fulham that he thinks it’s almost juvenile. It’s not that it isn’t an option for him either, he’s had Martin and Palmer at his disposal and not utilised them. If he’d made any sort of effort to properly incorporate Martin into the team then we’d have so much less to do this summer.

What worries me now and I think the issue that could genuinely ruin him is that he made us worse in a transfer window when we had so much going for us. All his own doing. Jerome for Martin has been a hideous swap that’s put another contract on our books for an aging striker, while still retaining Martin’s contract. We spent reportedly 2 million on Jerome, that’s almost half of what we reportedly sold Hughes for. 

There’s been no cohesive plan for building the team to host a sustainable promotion push but instead a reliance on experience that has ignored the problems with building around older players. Our style was built around Nugent who was pushing his luck and actually flattered to deceive (6 goals, coming in 4 games; he only scored in 4 games this season). As soon as he dropped off, we were toast.

I’ll forgive him the Winnall injury because we’d look a hell of a lot better if he was playing but he was the only player outside of Wisdom and Lawrence we signed in their 20’s this summer. And he isn’t even ours.

I understand the Davies signing but it wasn’t a signing for the future, he creates a massive stumbling block for how we can bring in another CB. We’ve got three on big wages in Pearce, Davies and Keogh. Where’s the room to bring in a young CB?

Where’s the room to bring in a young striker? Nugent, Jerome and Martin are taking up those spots on big wages. No ones going to want any of them this summer, what are we going to do?

Midfield. Ledley, Huddlestone, Johnson, Bryson and Butterfield. Who’d want them?

The real kicker is we didn’t have to sign them. The excuse is we were priced out of young players in an inflated market (where we surprisingly didn’t get much money for our two young stars) but we didn’t need to sign players to make us competitive this year, we knew it was a rebuild and people would have been fine with mid table, as long as we’re improving and working for the long term future of the club.

The fans expectations had been thoroughly reset after last season but we set it straight back to promotion or bust.

We’re two points off 10th now, on current form that’s probably about where we’ll finish. If that happens, it will be treated as a disaster and I guarantee Rowett’s excuse will be ‘look at this reaction, that’s why I had to risk so much for a shot at promotion’ but it’s complete ******** because if a young team had finished 10th, the fans would have understood.

It’s interesting to see the tide turn against this regime since it’s become clear we’re not going up because his excuses have gone. Davies, Ledley and Jerome were only good moves if we went up. If that’s the only way a player can be successful, why have we signed them because that’s precisely what we want to avoid.

At the point Kieftenbeld didn’t work out, we could have not signed Ledley, easily. We all would have understood if Hanson or Guy had got their chance instead, what’s the point of having investment in the academy if we don’t use its products?

Signing him to a longer contract in January only made sense, we were doing so well with him but he shouldn’t have ever been signed in the first place. We’re back to square one again.

This is going to get worse before it gets better, I think we can keep limping on for now but outside of introducing the academy players, I can’t see much to get excited about anymore.

I’d say at least we’ll get a big fee for Vydra but after Hughes and Ince’s sale, I wonder if we’ll get ripped off again.

Oh yeah and the football is ******* boring.

[Nuwtfly]

Did Jaap Stam’s Reading play nice  football? Just thinking out loud about which managers could (if any) replace Rowett. Almost no exciting candidates come to mind. 

[DerbyRam!]

Some bad games and we are calling for the guy's head!

A big no. We should stick by our manager and give him at least another season.

Rome wasn't built in a day and our self entitled fans need to sit down and get behind the team.

I went to every game in our last premiership season and we need to go up strongly this time. How many managers have we had recently? We get nowhere constantly changing and switching managers, we should be realistic and stop expecting to be top of the league when we simply don't have the players of a sufficient quality to succeed.

[DRBee]

8 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

So, if only Rowett is the only one to blame for last night's defeat, how would you respond to Vulcan Rams comments about the four goals?

I agree he has to take his fair share but to suggest everyone else is blameless is frankly ridiculous. 

team selection - his choice in midfield and up front both wrong choices and not sure why Baird brought in. The constantly changing team is affecting the quality  of play. True that Keogh's goal was clearly his error,  but the lack of confidence that brought the collapse is down to  Rowett. The performance was worse than any under MacClaren 2. These players can do  better and we have seen better from them.

[RedSox]

25 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

 

How well someone gets on with Owen Bradley shouldn’t be a barometer of how good a manager is.

Oh please. Who said it was? Get some perspective. And as fir McClaren, much as I loved his football style, it was one dimensional and we got sussed too often. Just take a deep breath and count to 10. We can’t go through another management change without it crippling us again. Take stock at the end of the season. Meantime, we just need to dig deep and support the team. Easier said than done, I know, but what’s the credible alternative??

[Ellafella]

18 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Sacking Rowett when whoever comes in won’t have any resources to change things and will have the same millstones Rowett has will not achieve anything!

As abject as tonight was (worst performance for many years!) we are still 5th. I don’t think we will stay there but I also don’t think a new manager will improve our situation. This is the legacy of bad spending under Clement (whether Clement was responsible for that or not)

Absolutely. 

[Carnero]

8 minutes ago, RedSox said:

what’s the credible alternative??

 

[Millenniumram]

26 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Did Jaap Stam’s Reading play nice  football? Just thinking out loud about which managers could (if any) replace Rowett. Almost no exciting candidates come to mind. 

Marco Silva if we had money and ambition but I don’t think we’ve got either so I can’t think of anyone. Personally think mel needs to sell up, this isn’t gonna get better unless he finds a rebuild and a proper manager which he doesn’t seem willing to do.

[RedSox]

3 minutes ago, Carnero said:

 

Behave.  Now I know you're pulling my chain!  And I said credible, didn't I?

[Ellafella]

50 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

We’ve fallen into the trap of overrating Clement and now Rowett because they’re young and talked well in the press.

How well someone gets on with Owen Bradley shouldn’t be a barometer of how good a manager is.

If a Roy Hodgson or Martin O’Neill, basically an older manager who doesn’t have the benefit of youth, had been making the transfer moves and setting the team up the way Rowett has, they wouldn’t have been praised. His youth has painted backwards moves as forwards ones.

He and a lot of people on here have scoffed at the criticisms of the team, this regime has hardly acknowledged the flaws that were plainly obvious and the contradictions of this rebuild being nothing of the sort.

At least with McClaren there was a clear template for how he’d like to set up, which we knew could be successful. Has Rowett really shown anything resembling that?

The defence is/was solid but it’s only because our attack is such an afterthought. He got very lucky in inheriting Vydra because otherwise his attacking set-up really is dismal.

I don’t think you can really praise his defence anymore (obviously it’s dropped off massively anyway, it’s literally not good) but it’s cost us so much balance as a team. We’re embarrasingly unbalanced, we set up with 6 outfield players dedicated to defending, sometimes 7 if Johnson plays on the wing. No wonder we don’t create any chances.

It’s obscene that he won’t play Palmer and Vydra together, ******* obscene. It’s not like Lawrence has been playing well, he could probably do with a break, why wouldn’t you put Palmer in? It’s astounding and really worrying.

His disdain for passing, possession and attacking flair is such an undesirable trait in a manager, it’s not a problem those aren’t his priorities but you can tell from his treatment of Hughes, his comments on former Derby teams and teams like Fulham that he thinks it’s almost juvenile. It’s not that it isn’t an option for him either, he’s had Martin and Palmer at his disposal and not utilised them. If he’d made any sort of effort to properly incorporate Martin into the team then we’d have so much less to do this summer.

What worries me now and I think the issue that could genuinely ruin him is that he made us worse in a transfer window when we had so much going for us. All his own doing. Jerome for Martin has been a hideous swap that’s put another contract on our books for an aging striker, while still retaining Martin’s contract. We spent reportedly 2 million on Jerome, that’s almost half of what we reportedly sold Hughes for. 

There’s been no cohesive plan for building the team to host a sustainable promotion push but instead a reliance on experience that has ignored the problems with building around older players. Our style was built around Nugent who was pushing his luck and actually flattered to deceive (6 goals, coming in 4 games; he only scored in 4 games this season). As soon as he dropped off, we were toast.

I’ll forgive him the Winnall injury because we’d look a hell of a lot better if he was playing but he was the only player outside of Wisdom and Lawrence we signed in their 20’s this summer. And he isn’t even ours.

I understand the Davies signing but it wasn’t a signing for the future, he creates a massive stumbling block for how we can bring in another CB. We’ve got three on big wages in Pearce, Davies and Keogh. Where’s the room to bring in a young CB?

Where’s the room to bring in a young striker? Nugent, Jerome and Martin are taking up those spots on big wages. No ones going to want any of them this summer, what are we going to do?

Midfield. Ledley, Huddlestone, Johnson, Bryson and Butterfield. Who’d want them?

The real kicker is we didn’t have to sign them. The excuse is we were priced out of young players in an inflated market (where we surprisingly didn’t get much money for our two young stars) but we didn’t need to sign players to make us competitive this year, we knew it was a rebuild and people would have been fine with mid table, as long as we’re improving and working for the long term future of the club.

The fans expectations had been thoroughly reset after last season but we set it straight back to promotion or bust.

We’re two points off 10th now, on current form that’s probably about where we’ll finish. If that happens, it will be treated as a disaster and I guarantee Rowett’s excuse will be ‘look at this reaction, that’s why I had to risk so much for a shot at promotion’ but it’s complete ******** because if a young team had finished 10th, the fans would have understood.

It’s interesting to see the tide turn against this regime since it’s become clear we’re not going up because his excuses have gone. Davies, Ledley and Jerome were only good moves if we went up. If that’s the only way a player can be successful, why have we signed them because that’s precisely what we want to avoid.

At the point Kieftenbeld didn’t work out, we could have not signed Ledley, easily. We all would have understood if Hanson or Guy had got their chance instead, what’s the point of having investment in the academy if we don’t use its products?

Signing him to a longer contract in January only made sense, we were doing so well with him but he shouldn’t have ever been signed in the first place. We’re back to square one again.

This is going to get worse before it gets better, I think we can keep limping on for now but outside of introducing the academy players, I can’t see much to get excited about anymore.

I’d say at least we’ll get a big fee for Vydra but after Hughes and Ince’s sale, I wonder if we’ll get ripped off again.

Oh yeah and the football is ******* boring.

You know @Leicester Ram, it hurts to agree, but I agree. 

[Gypsy Ram]

Top post @Leicester Ram

[AndyinLiverpool]

How many times have we tried to protect a one-goal lead and failed to do so?

That comes from the manager getting them to sit back, which induces panic sooner or later.

Our manager is as spineless as the players.

[wixman1884]

1 hour ago, Leicester Ram said:

We’ve fallen into the trap of overrating Clement and now Rowett because they’re young and talked well in the press.

How well someone gets on with Owen Bradley shouldn’t be a barometer of how good a manager is.

If a Roy Hodgson or Martin O’Neill, basically an older manager who doesn’t have the benefit of youth, had been making the transfer moves and setting the team up the way Rowett has, they wouldn’t have been praised. His youth has painted backwards moves as forwards ones.

He and a lot of people on here have scoffed at the criticisms of the team, this regime has hardly acknowledged the flaws that were plainly obvious and the contradictions of this rebuild being nothing of the sort.

At least with McClaren there was a clear template for how he’d like to set up, which we knew could be successful. Has Rowett really shown anything resembling that?

The defence is/was solid but it’s only because our attack is such an afterthought. He got very lucky in inheriting Vydra because otherwise his attacking set-up really is dismal.

I don’t think you can really praise his defence anymore (obviously it’s dropped off massively anyway, it’s literally not good) but it’s cost us so much balance as a team. We’re embarrasingly unbalanced, we set up with 6 outfield players dedicated to defending, sometimes 7 if Johnson plays on the wing. No wonder we don’t create any chances.

It’s obscene that he won’t play Palmer and Vydra together, ******* obscene. It’s not like Lawrence has been playing well, he could probably do with a break, why wouldn’t you put Palmer in? It’s astounding and really worrying.

His disdain for passing, possession and attacking flair is such an undesirable trait in a manager, it’s not a problem those aren’t his priorities but you can tell from his treatment of Hughes, his comments on former Derby teams and teams like Fulham that he thinks it’s almost juvenile. It’s not that it isn’t an option for him either, he’s had Martin and Palmer at his disposal and not utilised them. If he’d made any sort of effort to properly incorporate Martin into the team then we’d have so much less to do this summer.

What worries me now and I think the issue that could genuinely ruin him is that he made us worse in a transfer window when we had so much going for us. All his own doing. Jerome for Martin has been a hideous swap that’s put another contract on our books for an aging striker, while still retaining Martin’s contract. We spent reportedly 2 million on Jerome, that’s almost half of what we reportedly sold Hughes for. 

There’s been no cohesive plan for building the team to host a sustainable promotion push but instead a reliance on experience that has ignored the problems with building around older players. Our style was built around Nugent who was pushing his luck and actually flattered to deceive (6 goals, coming in 4 games; he only scored in 4 games this season). As soon as he dropped off, we were toast.

I’ll forgive him the Winnall injury because we’d look a hell of a lot better if he was playing but he was the only player outside of Wisdom and Lawrence we signed in their 20’s this summer. And he isn’t even ours.

I understand the Davies signing but it wasn’t a signing for the future, he creates a massive stumbling block for how we can bring in another CB. We’ve got three on big wages in Pearce, Davies and Keogh. Where’s the room to bring in a young CB?

Where’s the room to bring in a young striker? Nugent, Jerome and Martin are taking up those spots on big wages. No ones going to want any of them this summer, what are we going to do?

Midfield. Ledley, Huddlestone, Johnson, Bryson and Butterfield. Who’d want them?

The real kicker is we didn’t have to sign them. The excuse is we were priced out of young players in an inflated market (where we surprisingly didn’t get much money for our two young stars) but we didn’t need to sign players to make us competitive this year, we knew it was a rebuild and people would have been fine with mid table, as long as we’re improving and working for the long term future of the club.

The fans expectations had been thoroughly reset after last season but we set it straight back to promotion or bust.

We’re two points off 10th now, on current form that’s probably about where we’ll finish. If that happens, it will be treated as a disaster and I guarantee Rowett’s excuse will be ‘look at this reaction, that’s why I had to risk so much for a shot at promotion’ but it’s complete ******** because if a young team had finished 10th, the fans would have understood.

It’s interesting to see the tide turn against this regime since it’s become clear we’re not going up because his excuses have gone. Davies, Ledley and Jerome were only good moves if we went up. If that’s the only way a player can be successful, why have we signed them because that’s precisely what we want to avoid.

At the point Kieftenbeld didn’t work out, we could have not signed Ledley, easily. We all would have understood if Hanson or Guy had got their chance instead, what’s the point of having investment in the academy if we don’t use its products?

Signing him to a longer contract in January only made sense, we were doing so well with him but he shouldn’t have ever been signed in the first place. We’re back to square one again.

This is going to get worse before it gets better, I think we can keep limping on for now but outside of introducing the academy players, I can’t see much to get excited about anymore.

I’d say at least we’ll get a big fee for Vydra but after Hughes and Ince’s sale, I wonder if we’ll get ripped off again.

Oh yeah and the football is ******* boring.

Spectacular. Thanks for saying everything I wanted to.

[Leicester Ram]

24 minutes ago, RedSox said:

Oh please. Who said it was? Get some perspective. And as fir McClaren, much as I loved his football style, it was one dimensional and we got sussed too often. Just take a deep breath and count to 10. We can’t go through another management change without it crippling us again. Take stock at the end of the season. Meantime, we just need to dig deep and support the team. Easier said than done, I know, but what’s the credible alternative??

A key criticism of McClaren was that he didn’t handle the press well, he didn’t say the right things in defeat and didn’t communicate what was going on to the fans well enough.

Following him both times were two young managers who spoke well in the press, both appointed by Mel Morris who we all know wasn’t happy with McClaren’s handling of Newcastle or his conduct in that Brighton game last season.

Is it really too far to suggest that we have placed too much emphasis on a manager who would be better at handling post-match interviews and communicating his message to the fans over a manager with a message and style that actually had substance?

McClaren’s style wasn’t one dimensional, that’s always been a myth. If we couldn’t break teams down through the middle, we overloaded the flanks. The thing with the style is it was dependent on having a striker/DM combo capable of sustaining a threat down the middle to leave that space on the wings for us to overload.

We only really came unstuck when we didn’t have the ST and DM combo. October 2013-March 2015 was relentless success on the pitch (outside of a day at Wembley), we only looked one dimensional when one of our dimensions was forcibly taken away from us through injuries to Martin, Bent, Thorne, Mascarell and Eustace.

I don’t need to wait to the end of the season to see that we haven’t rebuilt and are going to have even more players none of us want still under contract because of Rowett’s frankly backwards transfer policy.

This is the first time I’ve completely lost faith in Derby, there is not a single aspect of the club I’m happy with right now outside of us sending our youth players out on loan.

I respect your approach and tbh I wish I could keep supporting the team regardless, but do you really think my ridiculously long post is just an angry tirade that can be solved by taking a deep breath and counting to ten?

There’s a fair bit of emotion in that post but the majority of it is purely analytical. We’ve failed in almost every single aspect this season unless we by some miracle get promoted. Hope we do, that would be nice.

[1967Ram]

36 minutes ago, RedSox said:

Oh please. Who said it was? Get some perspective. And as fir McClaren, much as I loved his football style, it was one dimensional and we got sussed too often. Just take a deep breath and count to 10. We can’t go through another management change without it crippling us again. Take stock at the end of the season. Meantime, we just need to dig deep and support the team. Easier said than done, I know, but what’s the credible alternative??

And that doesn't happen now? Under Mac I felt that we tried to play attractive football. Can that be said for what we are trying to play at the moment?

[RedSox]

20 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

Is it really too far to suggest that we have placed too much emphasis on a manager who would be better at handling post-match interviews and communicating his message to the fans over a manager with a message and style that actually had substance?

McClaren’s style wasn’t one dimensional, that’s always been a myth. If we couldn’t break teams down through the middle, we overloaded the flanks.

I don’t need to wait to the end of the season to see that we haven’t rebuilt and are going to have even more players none of us want still under contract because of Rowett’s frankly backwards transfer policy.

I respect your approach and tbh I wish I could keep supporting the team regardless, but do you really think my ridiculously long post is just an angry tirade that can be solved by taking a deep breath and counting to ten?

 

And equally, I respect yours.  Problem is, originally, you talked as if being bosom buddies with Owen Bradley was the key.  Bit of a leap from that to being a more generic media darling, given Owen is a work colleague.

As for McClaren, people were virtually lining up to drive him down the road because he had no Plan B, injuries not withstanding. Yes, I too loved the swagger of the team in those days, but we failed.  As have others since then.  My point is that we need to given it the metaphorical '10' before we once again press the panic button.  

Who's to say I'm right or wrong?  It all opinion, by fwiw, I think we need to give a manager (any manager) at least 2 seasons to undo the poor work done before him.  The revolving door policy just doesn't seem to work here.  Don't know why as it does elsewhere, but we are where we are and sadly, I think we / Mel need to give one last mighty push to support the team and see what happens come end of May.  I am not a happy clapper btw, just want to see some stability at the club for a while.  If he can't turn things around by next Dec I'll be at the front of the queue with my engine running...... 

[LesterRam]

I voted stay, it would be nice to play a more expansive style and press further up the field, I'm not a big fan of this hardcore defence and nicking a 1-0, I would say at times they are devoid of any ideas, If I could give any advice I would suggest play a different formation and have confidence in this very experienced team, you might be surprised.

[Wolfie20]

In - for now but if the same problems exist by around Christmas next season (e.g. serious lack of opportunity for U23s, absence of real pace upfront, a rapidly ageing squad and little or no flair, particularly in the midfield) then, much as it will disappoint me, we should be looking for yet another change of manager.