Derby County F.C. v Sunderland A.F.C

[Finch]

He'll get the sack when we don't make the play offs. He's out off his depth by a mile. He' s Conference standard where hoof ball is the norm.

[AdamRam]

1 minute ago, David said:

If we saw the players doing the basics and running themselves into the ground defeats are easier to take to a certain extent. 

IWe didn’t.

What we saw was footballers tonight failing to do the absolute basics, minimum requirements you would expect even down to League 2, both Keogh and Forsyth tonight have made horrendous individual errors. 

That’s 3 goals gifted to the opposition. No manager can be expected to get his team to score 4 goals at home to cancel those out. 

 

 

Your constant defence of GR is admirable, however this is not about one game, he has failed over a number now, a blip you called it, I would suggest the blip was what preceded this run.

The players are failing however the set up, the players brought in, the mentality of the club is down to the manager, look around the league, managers with players of less ability are getting better results than GR, where we finish will tell you how good he is.

 

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, David said:

If we saw the players doing the basics and running themselves into the ground defeats are easier to take to a certain extent. 

We didn’t.

What we saw was footballers tonight failing to do the absolute basics, minimum requirements you would expect even down to League 2, both Keogh and Forsyth tonight have made horrendous individual errors. 

That’s 3 goals gifted to the opposition. No manager can be expected to get his team to score 4 goals at home to cancel those out. 

Maybe some were not fit on the pitch, maybe that’s all we could play but it’s simply no excuse for what we saw.

I actually agree with you but I do have a question. By and large, does this team look like they give a **** to you? Setting aside your perfectly valid comments on their technical abilities, I just can't process how in such a relatively short space of time the whole demeanour of the team has changed so dramatically. They're almost unrecognisable.. To an extent I can cope with poor play but I can't accept a Derby side who by and large, show no pride in the shirt. That for me is unforgivable.

 

[North East Ram]

12 minutes ago, David said:

If we saw the players doing the basics and running themselves into the ground defeats are easier to take to a certain extent. 

We didn’t.

What we saw was footballers tonight failing to do the absolute basics, minimum requirements you would expect even down to League 2, both Keogh and Forsyth tonight have made horrendous individual errors. 

That’s 3 goals gifted to the opposition. No manager can be expected to get his team to score 4 goals at home to cancel those out. 

Maybe some were not fit on the pitch, maybe that’s all we could play but it’s simply no excuse for what we saw.

So why are these players not doing it? A good manager would coax a decent performance out of the team. Especially good enough to beat the bottom team. There's a manager out his depth and a chairman on weird charm offensive in the crowd. They love a pub style Q&A and talk the talk. But Gary isn't delivering against his objectives. He's belligerent and cocky which is brave, as his football is mainly rubbish. 

Even a staunch fan of Gary must admit his football style is boring, old fashioned and ultimately now proven as ineffective.

 

[EnigmaRam]

Well, a great offensive header from fizzy, a sublime through ball from Keogh,  crunching passionate tackle from fozzy and a lovely intricate one two between fozzy and Bradders before laying it off inch perfect for a goal. What more do you want...........oh wait, omethings not quite right about that.

on a serious note, that was shocking and my lad said we are useless. For the first time ever I went early when that 4th went in. Not one player deserves any credit or backing after tonight. Totally lacklustre and a lack of effort and desire all over the pitch.

sunderland have taken 4 points off us this season and they were bottom of the league before tonight.

Really don't know what else to say, horrendous performance.

[Zag zig]

21 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Very emotional post. We are all in this together and feel the same way if it helps.  I feel no connection with the current team like I did in 2014.

Is it bad that when Sunderland went 4-1 up, I almost wanted them to carry on scoring to give the players a major shock?

You have to ask, Is losing 4-1 to the bottom of the table team not a major shock?

They really should be shocked, embarrassed and ashamed of the performance. Rowett doesn’t seem clued up enough right now though, constantly tinkering, the players performances are starting to look disjointed, as is his squad.

[Ibby]

Embarrassing result, and losing to a club in Sunderland.

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Lawrence for ince

Huddlestone for Hughes

Ledley for Bryson

Davies for Shackell

Jerome for Martin

Which would you prefer.  Davies an improvement on Shackell. Huddlestone as well as Hughes would have been handy in tight games but not as a replacement.  Think some poor decisions on personnel now kicking in .  Not sure how much has been a conscious choice by Rowett as the players out were probably the highest earners but think i'd rather have Blackman than Jerome.   Also don't know what's happened to Thorne unless it's a psychological thing he has following his injuries , he should be the best all round midfielder with Cairney in this division.  Probably the worst I've seen tonight to be honest - I know we got some hammerings in 2007-08 but we all knew the writing was on the wall 10 games into that season.  Also please, please I never wanted to be subjected to Forsyth again he should have gone 3 seasons ago .

[Coneheadjohn]

Just had a message from @BurtonRam7 he is blaming himself...quite rightly!

[Day]

17 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Your constant defence of GR is admirable, however this is not about one game, he has failed over a number now, a blip you called it, I would suggest the blip was what preceded this run.

The players are failing however the set up, the players brought in, the mentality of the club is down to the manager, look around the league, managers with players of less ability are getting better results than GR, where we finish will tell you how good he is.

Same way as it was Clement, Pearson, McClaren’s fault? How many more managers do we need to go through till we look at the players on the pitch.

They continue to be given free passes, not their fault the system doesn’t suit, they just aren’t good enough.

It’s not that though.

Even Will Hughes said not long before leaving all that is rubbish, the players should be capable of adjusting. 

That team out there shouldn’t be losing 4-1 at home to Sunderland, even with no Russell, Martin or Bryson.

Nor should it need to score 4 to cancel out  individual mistakes. 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 attacking, defending, doesn’t matter.

What the problem is I don’t know, but if we keep blaming and firing the manager nobody will have the time to figure and fix the issues that keep plaguing us.

[1967Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Vyds has been struggling with GRs plan all game but done okayish

Was there a plan?

[Day]

14 minutes ago, Tim Bucktoo said:

So why are these players not doing it? A good manager would coax a decent performance out of the team. Especially good enough to beat the bottom team. There's a manager out his depth and a chairman on weird charm offensive in the crowd. They love a pub style Q&A and talk the talk. But Gary isn't delivering against his objectives. He's belligerent and cocky which is brave, as his football is mainly rubbish. 

Even a staunch fan of Gary must admit his football style is boring, old fashioned and ultimately now proven as ineffective.

Where are all these good managers? 

We’ve had McClaren twice, Clement, Pearson who had something like a 98% approval rating on a poll when we hired him, fans were calling for him when Wassall was appointed yet the same story, under every single one of them.

If not Rowett, who is this knight in shining armour that will come in and be the answer?

[Ilsonram12]

Left after the fourth and should of gone earlier, shambolic defending and no idea in how to get back into the game, not felt this angry after a match in a long time

[Gypsy Ram]

1 minute ago, David said:

Where are all these good managers? 

We’ve had McClaren twice, Clement, Pearson who had something like a 98% approval rating on a poll when we hired him, fans were calling for him when Wassall was appointed yet the same story, under every single one of them.

If not Rowett, who is this knight in shining armour that will come in and be the answer?

Should have never sacked him. But an ego of a certain owner...

[Nuwtfly]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Same way as it was Clement, Pearson, McClaren’s fault? How many more managers do we need to go through till we look at the players on the pitch.

They continue to be given free passes, not their fault the system doesn’t suit, they just aren’t good enough.

It’s not that though.

Even Will Hughes said not long before leaving all that is rubbish, the players should be capable of adjusting. 

That team out there shouldn’t be losing 4-1 at home to Sunderland, even with no Russell, Martin or Bryson.

Nor should it need to score 4 to cancel out  individual mistakes. 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 attacking, defending, doesn’t matter.

What the problem is I don’t know, but if we keep blaming and firing the manager nobody will have the time to figure and fix the issues that keep plaguing us.

Totally agree. This madness happens to us every bloody year, yet we fail to identify the one constant...

...some of these players are just not up for it. They might be up for half a season. Or 3/4 of one. But when push comes to shove, and the pressure is on, they fall away again and again.

Time to say goodbye. But what will we do? Probably offer them bumper new contracts. And for that, the blame lies at the door of Mr Morris I'm afraid. 

[maxjam]

21 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Gary said that.

If the game was lost simply because of four individual errors then i might agree. But the other 86 minutes needs explaining too.

Yeah, not saying that the rest of the match wasn't awful, but I don't believe that any amount of coaching (or non coaching if you like) could have resulted in that performance tonight. 

The players simply aren't good enough regardless of who the manager is.  Whether they haven't got the legs for a 46 game season, can't handle the pressure or some other factor, several managers have tried and failed to get this team promoted.

The best way forward (imho) is a couple of seasons out of the limelight - the more we try (and fail) the more the bottler tag sticks and weighs increasingly heavy.  Get rid of these high earners and start again with hungry young players.

The board need to stick to a philosophy, the management need to be given time to revamp the squad.  Firing GR and hiring A.N.Other will result in us being in the same place next season.

[TuffLuff]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Where are all these good managers? 

We’ve had McClaren twice, Clement, Pearson who had something like a 98% approval rating on a poll when we hired him, fans were calling for him when Wassall was appointed yet the same story, under every single one of them.

If not Rowett, who is this knight in shining armour that will come in and be the answer?

I don’t know who the knight is but as a manager you need to learn from your mistakes. Main example for me, has the two in midfield worked really over a long period? We are constantly overran in the centre, especially when you put players in there who’s game isn’t about positioning or siting deeply. So why keep persisting? Surely the players at his disposal means we could be more flexible?

[SSD]

Is it any wonder Nigel Pearson hated these players? 

[North East Ram]

12 minutes ago, David said:

Where are all these good managers? 

We’ve had McClaren twice, Clement, Pearson who had something like a 98% approval rating on a poll when we hired him, fans were calling for him when Wassall was appointed yet the same story, under every single one of them.

If not Rowett, who is this knight in shining armour that will come in and be the answer?

Firstly, not Gary. What a bizarre choice he was. What was on his cv? Ex player, lives in the area etc. Very forward thinking. 

The last 3 managers who got us promoted? Had either won things or in Billy's case, was proving to be a play off contender. So someone with a track record of 'success'. 

A lot of teams use that formula. 

Its not my job to identify these managers as I have my own blummin job but there's a little pointer to those concerned and responsible.

In most interviews I go for, I need to demonstrate how I can do the job. Not waffle about how I might do the job until it's painfully obvious that I can't and wasted everyone's time. 

I also blame the recruiter as well as the recruited. I don't actually blame Gary for applying (if he did) but 'someone' is giving these jobs out.

 

 

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, SouthStandDan said:

Is it any wonder Nigel Pearson hated these players? 

Nigel Pearson's biggest problem was that he saw this probably straight away, and decided to tackle it head on. He got every single player he thought was causing the rot out the door...but didn't have any plan to replace them. Great at pointing out the problem, but not at fixing it. Up until the last two months, I thought Rowett was the man to finally sort it out. Maybe, if given another transfer window, he will be that man.