Derby County V Birmingham City

[Ninos]

9 minutes ago, The Arch Deacon said:

So you're happy with the way the season's going then? And in Rowett's transfer window? You fancy us for a top 6 finish? 

Of course I'm not happy - I actually loved Hughes and Christie - lovely players to watch. I want to see Zanzala and Elsnik in there. But im not going to get my dream team I realise that. I recognise too that since Mac 1, none of our managers have produced attacking football like we saw v Hull at home. He's new to this and he's figuring things out but we are getting glimpses of graft and guile - baby steps for sure - but more in one game then ever we saw from Clement. He can't just wave a wand and we are suddenly Dortmund or Liverpool. We have to field players like Weimann and Olsson. I would have cut 90% of the team but they have done a good job with transfers and loan moves to extract some value. We need to trim numbers improve quality and infuse youth. And he's trying in his own way to do just that. Just getting Butterfield out on loan and Winnall in was some major impressive feat. 

And yes I think top 6 is doable once he's retooled again in Jan.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 hours ago, Simsy said:

What all 11?  No it's true his last 25 apps in all comps he only has 1 goal. Sky posted it a few games ago at 21. I would take you far more seriously if you admit Martin didn't play well or the fact he's off form.

Why do you bring up vydra? Does it satisfy you to try knock another's player to defend one you like?  

I agree we don't have a striker who will get 20+ this season and when I feel we do I will be sure to mention it. 

Does it satisfy you to constantly knock one you don't?

Personally,I believe we have three who could easily hit 20 goals a season,Martin vydra and Nugent...we just don't have a manager capable of utilising any of them to their potential.

[Spanish]

9 hours ago, lrm14 said:

Martin moves away, does well, comes back and isn't as effective. Bryson has been relatively poor for us recently, moves away and starts looking a totally different player. Yet you and a few others still think those players 'just don't have it' anymore. Weird.

Not sure if it's already been mentioned but when they scored and Martin went to retrieve the ball infront of the east stand, some utter tosser of a supporter ran up to the railings and started abusing him. Martin had just set foot onto the pitch and he was already being scapegoated. Makes you wonder why some of our players do better when they move away from here.

With regards to the match - They were awful, we were ineffective. Neither side seemed to really want it which was rather depressing to see. Still have a fair bit of rebuilding to do ahead of us.

weird; well somethings very wrong.  he is no impact player and putting him on as sub has yet to show any benefit

supporter; makes you wonder why ppl like that go to the game

[King Kevin]

11 hours ago, BobbyD said:

Is there anyone else on here who actually enjoys football, likes going to Pride Park and supporting Derby County ?

I'm feeling increasingly paranoid and isolated and that there's something a bit wrong with me 

Labour of love for me  I've been going 60 years seen it all ,but I have never been as bored as as I was yesterday.Day out with my mate is the only upside .

[RiddingsRam]

5 hours ago, The Arch Deacon said:

Ninos, this is why you lose all credibility on this forum! Forget your vitriolic scapegoating of individual players when things aren't quite going you way! You just know absolutely nack all about football. To suggest we're  better off now than under clement is not just fanciful twaddle, it's statistically garbage!! Apart from the Hull game, this season has been as entertaining as watching paint dry! GR will be gone in a month and you know it!!! Or maybe you don't!!!

I admit I don't agree with all @Ninos posts but I'm afraid he's correct here. 

[Day]

6 hours ago, Ninos said:

Martin Butterfield Camara Warnock Weimann and Bent at various points - all non impact players who've garnished zero interest from top teams.

Butterfield is at Sheffield Wed, Wolves asked about Martin on deadline day, were close to signing Weimann in the summer and Stephen Warnock is at Burton Albion! 

[Sparkle]

14 hours ago, Doodle said:

Can’t put Forsyth in he’s not fit enough. You could get more effort out of Bruce than Craig at the moment 

I did say if he is fit.

[TimRam]

7 hours ago, Ninos said:

Bunch of trash. Have you forgotten how mind numbingly boring Clement football was? And how unfit the players were? Rowett is Pep Guardiola compared to him. 

No, Rowett does not have two squllion, million, billion pounds to throw at at team until it sticks.

[clarkeram7]

I actually thought we did alright yesterday - I gather we didn't get the result we wanted but you can start to see the style of football we want to play. It didn't come off for us in the final 3rd but I agree with the comment above that it's better to watch than Clement, Pearson and Mac part 2. It's nice to see the players getting the ball into the front 4 quicker and being more direct. We used to go side ways for 90 mins ? he'll get there just give Rowett some more time ? the squad hasn't had an overhaul yet, still some more work to be done. 

I think 3/4 more will go in January, Martin included in that - he just doesn't seem to suit our new system. He looks lost and disinterested in a 2.. Winnall was breath of fresh air.

[JG400]

I didn't think we were ok , (suggests we performed reasonably for most of the game which I didnt think we quite made) however a couple of positives

• Thought Vydra and Lawrence are starting to work well together
• Winnall looked good , I would drop Nugent to bench in place of him
• Also liked Bennett when he came on, would pick him in place of Weimann and see how that goes

Martin Substitue was a waste would have bought ledley on to give him minutes and moved Winnal up and pushed Johnson into the middle of the three

[JoetheRam]

Now i'm reasonably sober, here's my two cents. 

The quality of both of those two sides was totally abysmal. The amount of air kicks, mis-kicks, passes to no one, balls into touch was staggering. Both looked totally devoid of confidence in the first half. An embarrassment for Championship football at times.

We looked very disjointed as a team, with players seemingly playing a very much individual game - a beat your man, win your 50/50's type of play, which seems totally alien to me having not seen us under Pearson, Powell or Rowett over the last year or so.

The limitations of our midfield 2 were plainly obvious after about twenty minutes. Too slow to get up in support of the forwards and not intelligent enough in Johnson's case to not take up Vydra's space. Defensively their cover was lacking on a couple of occassions with Keogh being forced to come out of the back line to throw a block at the ball. Better teams will take advantage of this regularly.

As it was, we ended up looking very narrow in attack - Olsson looked off the pace and being an attacking full back is not Baird's game.

Nugent got fed absolutely sod all but ran around a lot and got out of position on a few occassions putting balls into the area for himself. 

Lawrence was involved a fair bit, but doesn't look to have the quality of Tom Ince. We've gone backwards in this regard. Did put in a good corner once though.

Weimann was rubbish. He has no discernable 'best position' or role. Other than being a bit faster than average I'm not sure what he does. Bennett looked better than I remember him being, but still missed a good 1 on 1 opportunity that he should have buried. Probably deserves a start.

Carson's kicking out was poor. I was also left wondering what happened to goalkeepers kicking the ball out of their hands. I can't remember the last time I saw an 80 yard punt that comes out of the sky with snow on it. I miss that.

Davies and Keogh looked alright, not the most potent attack to contend with and having not seen their goal again, surely shouldn't be losing their man like that in the box?

Atmosphere wasn't great from either side, heard one non-Youtube chant from us all day and that came from the Neptune bus at about 2:45. No passion in the stands and not much on display on the pitch either. My mate remarked on the sound of football now being a low-level gentle murmur.

Allowed myself to get ripped off for a £4 bottle of Carling at half time.

Reading that back it sounds a bit negative, it wasn't good, but I feel like we're better than that performance showed, just needs time to come together and a lot of players through the door both ways.

 

 

[RoyMac5]

11 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I want competition for places which means you have to believe if you don't perform you lose the shirt. And the flipside is if you work hard in training you expect you will be rewarded with a start if the starters perform poorly.

Disappointing man management from Rowett.

I agree.

 

10 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I just read Rowett's post-match comments on the (lack of) selection: http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-gary-rowett-said-asked-522727

I was very disappointed in this, it seemed very Clough-esque.

Quote

Here’s what Rowett said about Russell in the after-match press conference.

Q) No Johnny Russell today?

A) No.

Q) Is he injured?

A) No.

Q) Any reason?

A) Not one that I am going to give, no. Just my decision to leave him out of the 18.

Q) Will he (Russell) be considered for selection for the squad on Tuesday?

A) I am not sure at this moment, but possibly.

Rowett, talking on Radio Derby, said: “Johnny was left out for different reasons. I won’t go into those reasons now. He was fit and available.”

All a bit mealy mouthed. If you want to say JRs been a naughty boy why not say so. All the hinting just leads to in-necessary speculation.

Why not just say he wasn't picked and leave it at that?

[jono]

9 hours ago, RamNut said:

True. But we haven't even got that to build on now.

how could johnson be rated better than hughes or bryson?

Well he certainly wasn't yesterday. 

but putting a brighter spin on it I still feel it is a question of balance and the fact that a small change can make a big difference.

 

[brady1993]

13 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Exactly. Spot on. I totally agree. It's glaringly obvious that there is a structural imbalance in the team ie it is "lopsided" with 2 deep midfielders playing on a line 5 feet in front of the centre halves then a huge chasm of space then 3 midfielders/attack. It doesn't work. We don't control possession. We lose possession very quickly. It's quick "football" but it's not controlled football. It's tantamount to "school yard" football...you've got 15 minutes to play a game...before the bell goes for boring maths double-period, quick smash the ball forward...Now Johnson's got it, oh no poor pass Johnson now the opponent's got it....oh good challenge Olson, now Kepgh's got it and surges forward and slide-passes to Vydra who turns...oh no he turned into the man, now the opponent's got it and ...oh good tackle Davies and he smashes it forward and Nugent's running after it but ...it's cleared and now Olson's got it and slips it inside to Johnson again, who chips it forward to Lawrence who turns inside and ohhh, beats a man and stops, then reverses it to Huddlestone who sweeps it wide to Olson who turns it inside to Johnson who wallops it forward...oh throw-in to Brum....Thank God there's the bell for double-maths...better than watching this awful, inchoate, kick n rush utter "gegenpresse" garbage. 

Almost completely agree. However one thing I would say is that our playstyle is nowhere near close to gegenpressing, the front 4 press a bit when the ball is around the opposition defence but we otherwise drop off completely and look to defend from deep. Gegenpressing is far more about yhe whole team going and aggressively pressing the opponent and forcing the mistake before attacking the opponent immediately. It's a very proactive playstyle were as we are playing a far far more reactive game plan.

[Ellafella]

5 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Almost completely agree. However one thing I would say is that our playstyle is nowhere near close to gegenpressing, the front 4 press a bit when the ball is around the opposition defence but we otherwise drop off completely and look to defend from deep. Gegenpressing is far more about yhe whole team going and aggressively pressing the opponent and forcing the mistake before attacking the opponent immediately. It's a very proactive playstyle were as we are playing a far far more reactive game plan.

Yes, you are right.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

I did say if he is fit.

Wonder how come GR didn't play Fozzie in the u23s on Friday?

[Chester40]

Positives : Keogh was immense and looked good coming forward with the ball even.

Vydra looked busy and not far off being the player we thought we were buying.

Lawence has got a touch of class and could be a great player.

Negatives: system isn't working for me. Two slow holding midfielders, means we  dont break at pace and use our pace up top.

No real width...Ollson and Baird don't get forward and Weimann and Lawence kept going narrow. 

Defence playing way too deep. Not pushingup. .creating no intensity or ..pressure. 

Carson's kicking.

Johnson's passing is often terrible.

In conclusion. Much to be done! 

 

 

 

[Ninos]

3 hours ago, King Kevin said:

Labour of love for me  I've been going 60 years seen it all ,but I have never been as bored as as I was yesterday.Day out with my mate is the only upside .

Agree with labour but No no no. Yesterday wasn't boring, rather it was frustrating. There's a difference. We tried to go forward and there were some nice interchanges but we lacked quality with a team that set up well. Even Masons chance - lovely work and pass to him but does an Aguero miss that? Would Ince even? The lack of quality and guile was immensely frustrating. But nothing compares to the utter boredom of Clement football who never even seemed to encourage attacking at all. It was the utter boredom that had us wanting his head. This is an entertainment business. Rowett is trying you must see that. His problem is mainly that from the front players so far Vydra has been the only truly effective one. 

[RamNut]

2 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Positives : Keogh was immense and looked good coming forward with the ball even.

Vydra looked busy and not far off being the player we thought we were buying.

Lawence has got a touch of class and could be a great player.

Negatives: system isn't working for me. Two slow holding midfielders, means we  dont break at pace and use our pace up top.

No real width...Ollson and Baird don't get forward and Weimann and Lawence kept going narrow. 

Defence playing way too deep. Not pushingup. .creating no intensity or ..pressure. 

Carson's kicking.

Johnson's passing is often terrible.

In conclusion. Much to be done! 

I agree with nearly all of that but i suspect that GR isn't a great fan of overlapping full backs. He seems to prefer the ball to go forward rather than the player.

Weimann and lawrence coming inside must have been a deliberate tactic as it was so apparent.

not sure why when their 433 with two luxury wingers - a system we know well - leaves the full backs with little or no protection.

 

[Mr Tibbs]

I think people have very short memories when it comes to Clement.

He didn't play fluid, attacking football but at least there was a plan and a shape to things. We were absolutely rock solid for the most part, especially before the last few weeks of his reign. Nobody was bored stiff when we were top on Christmas day. It wasn't quite Mac 1 football but it was better than anything we've seen so far this season. 

Rowett will hopefully get time to turn things around but I do think if he had anything about him we wouldn't be going even further backwards than we currently are. Some of the summer signings aren't helping him out either, they're not top players but they're better than they are currently playing. Spending 4.5 million on a right back no better than 35 year old Chris Baird is starting to irk me when that money could have been spent elsewhere though I have to say. 

Imagine if we get nothing from Brentford and Cardiff, that Forest result will have Mel's trigger finger twitching if it doesn't go in our favour IMO. Hopefully we can pick some points up and it doesn't get to that but we've seen a few managers sacked for much less in recent times.