Derby County V Birmingham City

[lrm14]

38 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Just admit you're wrong and move on.

Of all the people on this forum, you are the least qualified to use this phrase.

[Warren Hobhead]

2 hours ago, Ninos said:

Because the previous poster had big upped Clement after saying Rowett is dull but failed to mention how utterly bored we'd all got back then and how negative a manager he was and still is. We'd also spiralled down and were getting worse. Short memories.

And I was responding to that.

Your last paragraph is negative drivel and an unnecessary slight on the owner because Mel has said Rowett will get time and he's started decently enough given all the player changes.

What Mel says and Mel does are different things altogether. And I'm not the negative poster in this conversation. I'm being realistic. I think mid table is the pinnacle of our hopes this season.

[Sparkle]

Keeping the Birmingham game in perspective when have we ever seen a good game against them at our place with whatever kind of team we have had.

[RoyMac5]

48 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Backing down now are you?

Just admit you're wrong and move on. Christies a very good player based on what anyone with a bit of a brain thinks - Wisdom may be even a bit better but I rate both highly. Wisdom is the complete package especially after watching his recent occasional bursts down the field adding some bellerin to his defensive prowess. Rowett wanted more bite with Wisdom and he's got it.

Christie is a confidence player though as are many skill players. 

No I'm not backing down I was suggesting that Boro want a different type of player ie more attacking. As a winger Christie is average as a fullback he's also average. Still, lots of athleticism for which he scores above average.

[DavesaRam]

18 hours ago, whitefieldram said:

Otherwise Ok?

Don't push it, sonny boy!

[Gypsy Ram]

15 hours ago, The Arch Deacon said:

Correct! The truth is, you can chart this whole sorry saga back to the dismissal of Clememt IMO!  5th in the league at the time but playing a brand of football apparently not to everyone's liking! Hi Karumba! How much would you give to be in that position now? The fact is, he was taking us in a direction. He had a strategy and a plan! He had only the one transfer window and for the most part brought in real footballers showing good form, not hoofballers in the twilight of their careers. But he became the victim of an owner that payed way too much attention to twitter and forum opinions of b£&@ ends that know f£&@ all about football. AND WE WERE 5th FFS!!! It's clearly not the fault of fans who presumably only want the best for the club, but by the scapegoating of individual players, management, or general negativity, are having more sway than is healthy. The fault lies firmly at the doorstep of MM. time for him to go!!! Taking GR with him, and maybe Ninos???!!!

Harsh. 

I would keep Ninos for comedy reasons.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Don't push it, sonny boy!

Only messing, you make valid points.

[DavesaRam]

3 minutes ago, whitefieldram said:

Only messing, you make valid points.

Just joshing!

[Ninos]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

No I'm not backing down I was suggesting that Boro want a different type of player ie more attacking. As a winger Christie is average as a fullback he's also average. Still, lots of athleticism for which he scores above average.

He's not just athletic. Weimann is athletic but Weimann has no ball skills. Christie beats players with skill and he beats them at pace 

[Dimmu]

Took a while but managed to find one positive thing from this utter garbage.

Winnall. At least he tried. Will score and get sent off in next game.

[ramblur]

14 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

Took a while but managed to find one positive thing from this utter garbage.

Winnall. At least he tried. Will score and get sent off in next game.

Least it's a change from 'sent on'.

[OohMartWright]

18 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Keeping the Birmingham game in perspective when have we ever seen a good game against them at our place with whatever kind of team we have had.

Indeed, how can we forget the game where we led 2 - 0 and conceded twice in injury time?

[rynny]

15 hours ago, Ninos said:

He's not just athletic. Weimann is athletic but Weimann has no ball skills. Christie beats players with skill and he beats them at pace 

He beats them, then beats them again, then dallies, holds on to the ball, runs a bit more then makes the pass that was on 5 minutes ago that isn't on anymore. Or he pumps the ball into the box, with no real thought of who is there and whether or not that player will then be able to do something meaningful with it.

Before you throw the most successful crosses in the league last season, it does not tell the quality of those crosses, a cross that could be deemed successful is one that goes out the other side of the box to the winger, one that skims the top of a players head. All it means is that a Derby player got some sort of touch on it. Add to the fact that all those "successful crosses" resulted in 0 assists, the quality was obviously lacking.

Then there is the lack of defensive nous, he often got caught in the wrong position, sometimes he is athleticism would get him out of jail, other times in was the CB next to him.

[cannable]

46 minutes ago, OohMartWright said:

Indeed, how can we forget the game where we led 2 - 0 and conceded twice in injury time?

Worst refereeing performance I've ever seen that day epitomised by Russell not giving them the ball back from a drop ball because their player only got injured from fouling us and nothing being given.

Equalised in the 7th minute of 3 minutes added time. 

[rynny]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

Worst refereeing performance I've ever seen that day epitomised by Russell not giving them the ball back from a drop ball because their player only got injured from fouling us and nothing being given.

Equalised in the 7th minute of 3 minutes added time. 

And wasn't their first goal in the 4th minute of the 3 minutes?

[cannable]

7 minutes ago, rynny said:

And wasn't their first goal in the 4th minute of the 3 minutes?

Something like that, the penalty should have been near enough the last kick of the game 

[TuffLuff]

Decided to take a day out and post some more considered thoughts that haven't really been discussed about Saturday's game:

-For a team set up to counter attack we are horrifically slow. I stopped counting how many times we won throw ins when Birmingham had players out of position and we jogged over and didn't capitalise. I think overall this is something basic that's not been addressed since last season. 

- On a more 'overall' point, for a team that looks it's best playing at a higher tempo we lack tempo. It's partly personnel, i.e players being slow on the ball or taking an extra touch but it's partly system which leads me on to...

-The system doesn't work for me as it stands. The biggest fault I have is between central midfield and the no. 10. There was quite a few times on Saturday when Johnson pushed up during attacks, now when I was younger I was taught that if a player moves forward then someone needs to cover that position, and that didn't happen Saturday. For all of the people who criticise Huddlestone, his weaknesses will be exposed if he has to cover two positions at once. I'm not gonna point too many fingers, some will say Johnson shouldn't push forward, I'd probably say that either Vydra or Weimann should sometimes be looking to hold back and cover.

- I don't think we have a clear plan on how we attack, it all feels a bit get the ball forward and see what happens. I'm not sure out of Lawrence, Vydra or Weimann who our main 'outlet' is. Yes they pass it between each other quite nicely but I'd it really getting anywhere? I see it that they don't give each other the space for others to run into and end up being squeezed out by the opposition. Basically we've got three players trying to do the same job where one would suffice (probably Lawrence).

-Found the Martin detractors quite funny Saturday night who couldn't wait to say he hadn't done anything. Saw it a little differently in that when Martin got the ball to feet you see the likes of Lawrence and Winnall moving off him and making runs. This didn't happen with Nugent. I'd give him and Winnall the chance possibly, but I'm happy to say there isn't really anything between the attackers atm so it's personal preference. Don't want this to turn into a Martin debate again 

I'll leave it there for now, to be honest I think Rowett knows what's wrong but he's trying to fit too many players onto the pitch rather than getting balance. I think a 4-4-2 (midfield 4 as Lawrence, Huddlestone, Ledley (fitness dependent), Johnson) would be interesting but we shall wait and see. Am I saying we need to simplify what we are doing? Probably