Official: Cyrus Christie joins Middlesbrough

[DarkFruitsRam7]

[cosmic]

2 hours ago, Dimmu said:

Seems like it increased twice that plus 15% sell on fee.

Can I already admit I was bit exaggerating?

Forget all that and tell us quick what you think about Bent, Olsson, Weimann and Pearce. 

[ramblur]

12 minutes ago, Parsnip said:

I can see Christie pressing on to be an excellent Premier league wing back in the future. But GR has Wisdom & Baird so I'm happy enough with the transfer and wish Cyrus well.

If Cyrus does well for them and Andre/Chris do well for us,then we'll all be happy.

[Dimmu]

4 minutes ago, cosmic said:

Forget all that and tell us quick what you think about Bent, Olsson, Weimann and Pearce. 

I did the Bent part already, I'm expecting about 3 millions. For the others, I'm ready and just waiting rumours to start...

 

 

[Nuwtfly]

I'll miss his punctuationless notes ?

[uttoxram75]

Cyrus's crosses into the box were fine. The problem was our managers had stopped our midfielders from making runs beyond the forwards into the box.

When Fozzy was at his best all he had to do was ping it hard and low into the penalty area, Russell, two of Bryson, Hendrick and  Hughes, plus Martin, and Ward, would all be charging in making the cross look brilliant.

Christie has had criticism for poor crossing but quite often there was no one making runs to receive the cross.

 

[BramcoteRam84]

Final year of his contract and obviously not in Rowett's plans, 2.5m is a good deal. 

However Boro have paid 2.5m because he is one of the best right backs in the league. Yes he could be frustrating, he needs to be more consistent and needs to put the ball in first time more often but under Monk, I think you will see Christie do really well for Boro. He isn't the finished article and I really never understood the stick he received from some.

Ultimately he was an excellent signing by McClaren, signed for 500k, sold for 2.5m and 119 appearances in 3 years. Good luck to him for the future.

[Ambitious]

I don't buy that he's one of the best full backs in the league, nor that he's an excellent attacking full back who is suspect defensively. 

Defensively, he was decent in one-on-one situations. I think that is the strongest part of his game. He's an attack minded full back without the quality to back it up. It often leads to him being out of position and that pulls the defence out of position. 

Going forward, he covered ground and offered an extra body, but the ability he showed on the ball was very poor. He often ran to the positions he could have just passed it. Not to mention, he is appalling at crossing the ball, he's never hit a clean shot in his life and his decision making is poor. 

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but he was the very first on my list to get out of the door. He holds value in the market, despite not holding much value to us. Providing Rowett doesn't go mental and sell Keogh, I think the defence is sorted now and has a good balance. I think the likes of Wisdom, Keogh & Davies could also help Lowe make the step up, although Forsyth is undoubtedly first choice whilst he's fit. 

[Ramleicester]

I must be a very lucky or unlucky visitor to the ipro. I visited 11 times last season the three players I thought stood out have been sold. The poor ones have not been sold. Several of those are on big wages. Christie looked good when I watched him and whilst Wisdom is good  what if he gets injured? If Derby are a big club why sell the best assets? Cant see much good business going on.

[Gritstone Ram]

7 minutes ago, Ramleicester said:

I must be a very lucky or unlucky visitor to the ipro. I visited 11 times last season the three players I thought stood out have been sold. The poor ones have not been sold. Several of those are on big wages. Christie looked good when I watched him and whilst Wisdom is good  what if he gets injured? If Derby are a big club why sell the best assets? Cant see much good business going on.

How many of them 11 did we win?

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, Ramleicester said:

...and whilst Wisdom is good  what if he gets injured?

Baird.

[G STAR RAM]

21 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Cyrus's crosses into the box were fine. The problem was our managers had stopped our midfielders from making runs beyond the forwards into the box.

When Fozzy was at his best all he had to do was ping it hard and low into the penalty area, Russell, two of Bryson, Hendrick and  Hughes, plus Martin, and Ward, would all be charging in making the cross look brilliant.

Christie has had criticism for poor crossing but quite often there was no one making runs to receive the cross.

Devil's advocate, if there were not players arriving in the box why was he putting crosses in?

[Mr Tibbs]

12 minutes ago, Ramleicester said:

I must be a very lucky or unlucky visitor to the ipro. I visited 11 times last season the three players I thought stood out have been sold. The poor ones have not been sold. Several of those are on big wages. Christie looked good when I watched him and whilst Wisdom is good  what if he gets injured? If Derby are a big club why sell the best assets? Cant see much good business going on.

I don't think there's any argument when PL clubs come calling, we're still a Championship club and the odds are against us to get promoted this year. If our better players want to leave what else can we do? Try and convince players that probably aren't 100% in the managers plans to stay for what? 

Baird is adequate cover for Wisdom (and a few other positions making him pretty useful by all accounts). The fact that he kept Christie out towards the end of the season makes this deal even sweeter, whilst Christie isn't a bad player he'd probably be third choice under Gary Rowett. 2.5 million pounds for a third choice right back, that's the reality. Would he even make the squad if he stayed? Wish him all the best, he wasn't a bad player for us but his time here was numbered IMO. Appreciate your views, especially as it seems you picked Christie's good days but I think this deal is very good business. 

[ramblur]

Somewhere someone claimed we paid £2m for GT,and after research I was going to reply to the post,because I knew that fee was way less than what we paid.Unfortunately I can't find the post,so forgive me for replying here,but it does touch on Cyrus as well.

PBSE in 13/14 (which covers the summer window of 14/15) states that we made purchases (inclusive of league levy/agents' fees etc) amounting to £6,777,057. We signed GT and Cyrus for fees,but we also got Santos/Calero/McDonald/Koblenz on 'frees',but I don't know if any compo was payable for any of these; however any agents' fees involved would be included.Whichever way you look at it,the cost of these 4 is unlikely to amount to a great deal,which means that either GT (where my money is) was a lot more than people thought,or Cyrus was,or both.

I've also looked at the cash side of things in 14/15 to back this up (because I've a feeling some don't trust this PBSE business). At the end of 13/14 (and therefore start of 14/15) we owed £2.069m on players(shown as payable within 1 year).This surprised me at first,because we only signed Russell and Forsyth of note that year.....then I remembered we bought Jacobs/Coutts/Keogh/O'Connor/Sammon/Freeman the previous year,so the figure obviously includes o/s instalments on some of these.

The cash flow statement for 14/15 shows that during the year we podded out £4.464m to acquire players' regs,so if you deduct the £2.069m from the year before,then £2.395m must have been 1st instalments on 14/15 additions.At the end of the year,as I reported previously,we owed £2.406m up to 1 year,and £3.05m  1yr+. The total of this lot (2.395+2.406+3.05)= £7.851m thus represents the year's business.The thing that intrigued me about this was that if you deducted the PBSE (summer window) figure from this,then there's not much more than £1m to cover the Jan signings of Shotton/Albentosa/Warnock. Carrying out these sort of exercises can be a real eye opener.Again however, this doesn't tally with the additions within intangible assets of £8.132m,and again it's out in the same direction as 15/16,but to a lesser extent.I'm starting to think that add ons might be an issue,and am wondering if that financial reg mentioned before,that led to a change in amortisation calculations may have something to do with it (but I've absolutely no intention of wading through the FR). Now when I say the things don't reconcile,I'm not for one moment saying that the accounts don't balance,but that in both years there are 2 different credits somewhere in the accounts that I can't see (possibly provisions hidden within global figures).

I remember now that I finished looking at the accounts in depth after 13/14 and that every year I carried out this same reconciliation it balanced (maybe £1k out due to rounding).As I didn't go into any depth in the following 2 years,it's no surprise I didn't find the anomalies until now. Will (hopefully) look at 16/17 to see if a trend emerges.

Happy headaches everyone.

[Gritstone Ram]

8 minutes ago, ramblur said:

Somewhere someone claimed we paid £2m for GT,and after research I was going to reply to the post,because I knew that fee was way less than what we paid.Unfortunately I can't find the post,so forgive me for replying here,but it does touch on Cyrus as well.

PBSE in 13/14 (which covers the summer window of 14/15) states that we made purchases (inclusive of league levy/agents' fees etc) amounting to £6,777,057. We signed GT and Cyrus for fees,but we also got Santos/Calero/McDonald/Koblenz on 'frees',but I don't know if any compo was payable for any of these; however any agents' fees involved would be included.Whichever way you look at it,the cost of these 4 is unlikely to amount to a great deal,which means that either GT (where my money is) was a lot more than people thought,or Cyrus was,or both.

I've also looked at the cash side of things in 14/15 to back this up (because I've a feeling some don't trust this PBSE business). At the end of 13/14 (and therefore start of 14/15) we owed £2.069m on players(shown as payable within 1 year).This surprised me at first,because we only signed Russell and Forsyth of note that year.....then I remembered we bought Jacobs/Coutts/Keogh/O'Connor/Sammon/Freeman the previous year,so the figure obviously includes o/s instalments on some of these.

The cash flow statement for 14/15 shows that during the year we podded out £4.464m to acquire players' regs,so if you deduct the £2.069m from the year before,then £2.395m must have been 1st instalments on 14/15 additions.At the end of the year,as I reported previously,we owed £2.406m up to 1 year,and £3.05m  1yr+. The total of this lot (2.395+2.406+3.05)= £7.851m thus represents the year's business.The thing that intrigued me about this was that if you deducted the PBSE (summer window) figure from this,then there's not much more than £1m to cover the Jan signings of Shotton/Albentosa/Warnock. Carrying out these sort of exercises can be a real eye opener.Again however, this doesn't tally with the additions within intangible assets of £8.132m,and again it's out in the same direction as 15/16,but to a lesser extent.I'm starting to think that add ons might be an issue,and am wondering if that financial reg mentioned before,that led to a change in amortisation calculations may have something to do with it (but I've absolutely no intention of wading through the FR). Now when I say the things don't reconcile,I'm not for one moment saying that the accounts don't balance,but that in both years there are 2 different credits somewhere in the accounts that I can't see (possibly provisions hidden within global figures).

I remember now that I finished looking at the accounts in depth after 13/14 and that every year I carried out this same reconciliation it balanced (maybe £1k out due to rounding).As I didn't go into any depth in the following 2 years,it's no surprise I didn't find the anomalies until now. Will (hopefully) look at 16/17 to see if a trend emerges.

Happy headaches everyone.

Trying to read this after a bbq and a fair few beers is impossible. I love it though.

[ramblur]

4 minutes ago, Gritters said:

Trying to read this after a bbq and a fair few beers is impossible. I love it though.

Wish I'd written it after a bbq and a fair few beers-you lucky so and so

[Comrade 86]

Can't be arsed to wade through all the mealy-mouthed obituaries on another outgoing player. ' A good lad, but couldn't cross a ball, footballing brain of a child' yadda, yadda ad nauseam, 'but I wish him well' - seriously?

There's a strange syndrome evident on this forum whereby all value assessments fall into one of two groups; great or fookin awful. In reality, the vast majority of players sit somewhere in the middle and Christie is certainly one of them. That said, he has been disappointing in the regard that for a young player with all the physical attributes, tremendous athleticism and some truly inspired moments, he has failed to progress in a manner that would satisfy the fans, but if Shotton can be coached into form, why can't Cyrus? Surely the coaches should accept some blame for this if indeed, the finger really needs to be pointed at anyone.

It does seem to me that any old populist myth that is bandied about on this forum, no matter how ill-conceived, can become a fact if it is repeated enough. As for factual observations, with Wisdom incoming, Cyrus has slipped down the order here and he needed a move which could kickstart his career. That's really where it starts and finishes and happily, this seems one of those rare occasions where it's a great deal for all parties. As such, 'I wish the lad well' 

COYR

[Van der MoodHoover]

11 hours ago, ramblur said:

Somewhere someone claimed we paid £2m for GT,and after research I was going to reply to the post,because I knew that fee was way less than what we paid.Unfortunately I can't find the post,so forgive me for replying here,but it does touch on Cyrus as well.

PBSE in 13/14 (which covers the summer window of 14/15) states that we made purchases (inclusive of league levy/agents' fees etc) amounting to £6,777,057. We signed GT and Cyrus for fees,but we also got Santos/Calero/McDonald/Koblenz on 'frees',but I don't know if any compo was payable for any of these; however any agents' fees involved would be included.Whichever way you look at it,the cost of these 4 is unlikely to amount to a great deal,which means that either GT (where my money is) was a lot more than people thought,or Cyrus was,or both.

I've also looked at the cash side of things in 14/15 to back this up (because I've a feeling some don't trust this PBSE business). At the end of 13/14 (and therefore start of 14/15) we owed £2.069m on players(shown as payable within 1 year).This surprised me at first,because we only signed Russell and Forsyth of note that year.....then I remembered we bought Jacobs/Coutts/Keogh/O'Connor/Sammon/Freeman the previous year,so the figure obviously includes o/s instalments on some of these.

The cash flow statement for 14/15 shows that during the year we podded out £4.464m to acquire players' regs,so if you deduct the £2.069m from the year before,then £2.395m must have been 1st instalments on 14/15 additions.At the end of the year,as I reported previously,we owed £2.406m up to 1 year,and £3.05m  1yr+. The total of this lot (2.395+2.406+3.05)= £7.851m thus represents the year's business.The thing that intrigued me about this was that if you deducted the PBSE (summer window) figure from this,then there's not much more than £1m to cover the Jan signings of Shotton/Albentosa/Warnock. Carrying out these sort of exercises can be a real eye opener.Again however, this doesn't tally with the additions within intangible assets of £8.132m,and again it's out in the same direction as 15/16,but to a lesser extent.I'm starting to think that add ons might be an issue,and am wondering if that financial reg mentioned before,that led to a change in amortisation calculations may have something to do with it (but I've absolutely no intention of wading through the FR). Now when I say the things don't reconcile,I'm not for one moment saying that the accounts don't balance,but that in both years there are 2 different credits somewhere in the accounts that I can't see (possibly provisions hidden within global figures).

I remember now that I finished looking at the accounts in depth after 13/14 and that every year I carried out this same reconciliation it balanced (maybe £1k out due to rounding).As I didn't go into any depth in the following 2 years,it's no surprise I didn't find the anomalies until now. Will (hopefully) look at 16/17 to see if a trend emerges.

Happy headaches everyone.

So if pressed, what range does your analysis indicate we paid for GT?

Appreciate it can't be precise because he wasn't signed in isolation and all numbers are aggregated over several players. 

The inference is that  £2m might have been first year instalment on GT so final figure with add ons is 3-4m?

Where's that @Butros fella to give us the wba accounts version 

[i-Ram]

George Thorne no doubt cost £2m. I think we need to find out the cost of his team.

[Animal is a Ram]

17 hours ago, Ramleicester said:

I must be a very lucky or unlucky visitor to the ipro. I visited 11 times last season the three players I thought stood out have been sold. The poor ones have not been sold. Several of those are on big wages. Christie looked good when I watched him and whilst Wisdom is good  what if he gets injured? If Derby are a big club why sell the best assets? Cant see much good business going on.

It's a lot harder to sell your worse players, for a start.

£2.5m for a player, 3rd choice in his position, and in the last year of his contract is excellent business. Will's and Ince's deals were fair, too, in my opinion. If they were such bargains, there would have been a bidding war.

These players may be losses to Derby as individuals, but if that's the cost of building a better team at the end of it, then so be it. At this point, we have to trust in Rowett.