Steve McClaren

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Only in Britain would a man be ridiculed for using an umbrella when it's raining.  "Wally with the Brolly". Yeah, what a fool.  Everyone knows you stand there and get soaked to the skin.

The sheer hostility some people have to Steve McClaren confuses me.  Especially the criticism of his management record.  For information here are Derby County's managers for the last 40 years (excluding caretaker managers):

...

Docherty won the League Cup with Chelsea and the FA Cup with Man Utd and, besides that, none of the others on that list have won a league title or a domestic cup as a manager.  

Apart from Steve McClaren, of course.  Which is to say that he's got the best managerial record in terms of trophies won of any Derby manager for the last 40 years.  If his critics maintain that his track record isn't good enough, God knows what they must have though of his predecessors.

I suppose this will be ignored.

But we deserve better we've lost some games and now we want someone else in!

[Mostyn6]

4 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Only in Britain would a man be ridiculed for using an umbrella when it's raining.  "Wally with the Brolly". Yeah, what a fool.  Everyone knows you stand there and get soaked to the skin.

The sheer hostility some people have to Steve McClaren confuses me.  Especially the criticism of his management record.  For information here are Derby County's managers for the last 40 years (excluding caretaker managers):

Tommy Docherty

Colin Addison

John Newman

Peter Taylor

Roy McFarland

Arthur Cox

Roy McFarland

Jim Smith

Colin Todd

John Gregory

George Burley

Phil Brown

Billy Davies

Paul Jewell

Nigel Clough

Steve McClaren

Paul Clement

Nigel Pearson

Steve McClaren

 

Docherty won the League Cup with Chelsea and the FA Cup with Man Utd and, besides that, none of the others on that list have won a league title or a domestic cup as a manager.  Apart from Steve McClaren, of course.  Which is to say that he's got the best managerial record in terms of trophies won of any Derby manager for the last 40 years.  If his critics maintain that his track record isn't good enough, God knows what they must have though of his predecessors.

I would still say his win % would be better than most in the list too!!

[Curtains]

17 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Only in Britain would a man be ridiculed for using an umbrella when it's raining.  "Wally with the Brolly". Yeah, what a fool.  Everyone knows you stand there and get soaked to the skin.

The sheer hostility some people have to Steve McClaren confuses me.  Especially the criticism of his management record.  For information here are Derby County's managers for the last 40 years (excluding caretaker managers):

Tommy Docherty

Colin Addison

John Newman

Peter Taylor

Roy McFarland

Arthur Cox

Roy McFarland

Jim Smith

Colin Todd

John Gregory

George Burley

Phil Brown

Billy Davies

Paul Jewell

Nigel Clough

Steve McClaren

Paul Clement

Nigel Pearson

Steve McClaren

 

Docherty won the League Cup with Chelsea and the FA Cup with Man Utd and, besides that, none of the others on that list have won a league title or a domestic cup as a manager.  Apart from Steve McClaren, of course.  Which is to say that he's got the best managerial record in terms of trophies won of any Derby manager for the last 40 years.  If his critics maintain that his track record isn't good enough, God knows what they must have though of his predecessors.

Did you forget Brian Clough and Dave Mackay or was 40 years an arbitrary figure .

McClaren or Jim Smith or Authur Cox no contest 

[Mostyn6]

1 minute ago, curtains said:

Did you forget Brian Clough and Dave Mackay or was 40 years an arbitrary figure 

Maths not a strength? 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said:

Maths not a strength? 

Never fail to have a go mate .

 

[NewhallRam71]

As much as I was hopeful that the return of Mac would also see the high energy, fast flowing, entertaining football of the previous Mac era its quite clearly a long way away and I have to admit to being concerned at the clubs current state.

When Mac joined us last time, he took on a young, hungry team that had grown stale under Nigel. He was able to tap into their youth and ambition to get into the premier league and along with his renowned loan contacts and modern coaching methods he transformed us and we were unlucky not to go up.

I think I'm right in saying that there wasn't a player in the Play Off final team (Possibly George Thorne?) that had any Premier League experience and the contracts that the players were on at that time reflected their careers to date. They were paid well, but nowhere near Prem League wages.

The following season, it was pretty much the same dynamic, another couple of good loans and the star performers from the Wembley team were rewarded with improved contracts. If it hadn't been for injuries (Thorne, Eustace, Mascarell, Martin, Bent) then who knows where we would have ended up. Its interesting that we set a defensive record in that season before the capitulation started once again. Although personally I don't buy the Mac/Newcastle thing as an excuse.

With Mac departed, and a young progressive coach in Paul Clement appointed, we seemed to continue to be a prudent and well run club. After the previous season's failure it just looked like we needed to add some depth to the squad to cover for the injuries that derailed us.

However IMO the transfer business of season 2015/16 has and continues to have a damaging effect on the club as a whole.

I appreciate that hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Signing Bent and Ince after their loan exploits seemed like good business. High Wages.

After Buxton's injuries we were all crying out for a left sided centre half. We signed two in Pearce and Shackell. Again, on the face of it good business. Don't know about Pearce but its well documented that Shackell is on Premier League wages that the Dingles couldn't afford!

Baird came in on a free as a good experienced pro, I think this year he has proven that this was good business. Would estimate hes on average wages.

Hughes was injured on the opening day, the insurance money helped us buy Butterfield, renowned as a creative midfielder who had impressive assist stats. On the face of it good business. Would imagine we offered high wages to get him to demand a transfer!

As the window closed, Mel sprung a surprise and brought in Bradley Johnson. A midfield enforcer who had been the driving force behind Norwich's promotion the previous season. Norwich fans lamented, we rejoiced! Can't imagine a record signing comes in on low wages!!!

With the Rams seemingly fighting it out for the title with Middlesbrough as the January window opened, we added a few more players to get us over the promotion line. A forward plan B was signed in Nick Blackman who at the time was the Chanpionships top scorer, (Surely last years Scott Hogan!)  Marcus Olsson was brought in to provide cover on the left and Abdoul Camara was signed as a wildcard option in attack.

What could possibly go wrong???

The rest as they say is history. It was a squad that promised so much but didn't deliver. I do believe though that the failure is more complete than it seems on the face of it.

With the improved contracts awarded and more poor additions on high wages (Vydra, Anya)

We have replaced a young, hungry team of wannabees, players who were yearning to play in the Premier League, with a team of players who have the contracts of Premier League players without looking like being Premier League players.

The hunger throughout the team, the extra will to win, to me it just doesn't seem to be there.

When it all goes wrong, they all look bereft, its like they can't even be bothered to fall out with each other. Regardless of the result they will drive home in their supercars to their gated mansions and have a day off before returning to the spa like luxury of Moor Farm.

The club needs to learn from the last few years. Very quickly we seem to have become a club with no real plan and a willingness to spend spend spend.

Are we that much better off now than when Nigel Clough took over? Lots of players on high contracts with no love for the club?

We desperately need to ship out some of these high earning 'never will be's', and replace them with young, hungry players who have something to prove. 

As a last note, and to cement my thoughts, am I the only one who thinks that Hughes has dropped off the pace completely since he signed his new contract? I can accept that there are games that he will be in and out etc but from what I have seen over the last couple of months, the movement, effort and overall energy levels from Will have been nowhere near. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm glad its not my mess to sort out. I think we will go backwards before we go forwards again.

Up The Rams

 

[LittleEatonRam]

14 minutes ago, curtains said:

Did you forget Brian Clough and Dave Mackay or was 40 years an arbitrary figure .

McClaren or Jim Smith or Authur Cox no contest 

40 years isn't going back far enough for you?  Even if you take into account BC and DM, McClaren is still the manager with the best record prior to his appointment as Derby manager.

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

40 years isn't going back far enough for you?  Even if you take into account BC and DM, McClaren is still the manager with the best record prior to his appointment as Derby manager.

JimSmith and Arthur Cox and Billy Davis got us promoted to the top league.

Jim Smith brought McClaren in as his coach before he reneged on us and left fo Man U.  

McClaren doesn't hold a light to Smith and Cox 

[mrdave85]

2 minutes ago, curtains said:

JimSmith and Arthur Cox and Billy Davis got us promoted to the top league.

Jim Smith brought McClaren in as his coach before he reneged on us and left fo Man U.  

McClaren doesn't hold a light to Smith and Cox 

You're really bitter about people leaving us aren't you? You keep bringing up the fact he went to work Man U as if he dumped you personally.

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

You're really bitter about people leaving us aren't you? You keep bringing up the fact he went to work Man U as if he dumped you personally.

No he dumped DCFC for Man U who went on to do the treble  .

He is a good coach but he's had his chance at Derby  

He is old hat IMO  .

Maybe I am a bit bitter I don't know  

Things do get to feel like its personnel when someone dumps DCFC  

 

 

[mrdave85]

Just now, curtains said:

No he dumped DCFC for Man U who went on to do the treble  .

He is a good coach but he's had his chance at Derby  

He is old hat IMO  

 

 

So he left for what was a better job at the time, what is wrong with that? He hasn't had his chance at Derby IMO, he's had one full season with us over two spells, both times he was hired he's inherited someone else's squad. 

 

[europia]

16 minutes ago, curtains said:

No he dumped DCFC for Man U who went on to do the treble  .

He is a good coach but he's had his chance at Derby  

He is old hat IMO  .

Maybe I am a bit bitter I don't know  

Things do get to feel like its personnel when someone dumps DCFC  

 

 

I'm not too bothered about what went before. Witnessing recent events at Leicester, football is not a place for the notion of integrity. However you may have a point about Mac. Listening to his recent interviews I suspect he indeed is in a phase of self doubt. I mentioned before, the Newcastle saga would have been a big knock to Steve. He should see his contract out this time, help to shape a new group of players, and then hand over to someone less tainted and more energized.

[ROKERITE]

A manager who has proved he can take a team into The Premier League as Champions is sacked after fourteen matches to almost universal approval. A manager who failed miserably to take a club up despite nearly two full seasons in charge and who has never achieved promotion as a manager anywhere is supported by an overwhelming majority of fans.

Ah well, if he's still at Derby next season that'll be another one stuck in The Championship.

[Ramshankered]

My two cents: Stick with Steve. Give him time to fix things. Play the long ball game (not on the pitch...but you get my drift). 

As much as results need to improve, likewise some Derby fans really need to get better at managing their own expectations. It would've been miraculous for McClaren to not only turn us around but get us promoted after the start we had.

The majority of Champ teams that go up do so by giving their manager opportunity to build. Brighton are a good example - it's not happened overnight. They've built over 2-3 seasons with Hughton at the helm. Same goes for Boro last year with Karanka. Leicester with Pearson. Burnley with Dyche. The list goes on.

Yes - there are occasional exceptions where the hiring / firing approach works (Watford spring to mind), but by and large it doesn't work. You only have to look down the road to see the results.

Think of our recent history - the best squad we had was the one put together by Clough over several years. Granted Nige didn't have the guile to bring the best out of them - but the point is it takes time AND consistency to create something special. 

The current run sucks - but I would be far, far more disappointed if we fired yet another manager. 

 

 

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

35 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Only in Britain would a man be ridiculed for using an umbrella when it's raining.  "Wally with the Brolly". Yeah, what a fool.  Everyone knows you stand there and get soaked to the skin.

The sheer hostility some people have to Steve McClaren confuses me.  Especially the criticism of his management record.  For information here are Derby County's managers for the last 40 years (excluding caretaker managers):

Tommy Docherty

Colin Addison

John Newman

Peter Taylor

Roy McFarland

Arthur Cox

Roy McFarland

Jim Smith

Colin Todd

John Gregory

George Burley

Phil Brown

Billy Davies

Paul Jewell

Nigel Clough

Steve McClaren

Paul Clement

Nigel Pearson

Steve McClaren

 

Docherty won the League Cup with Chelsea and the FA Cup with Man Utd and, besides that, none of the others on that list have won a league title or a domestic cup as a manager.  Apart from Steve McClaren, of course.  Which is to say that he's got the best managerial record in terms of trophies won of any Derby manager for the last 40 years.  If his critics maintain that his track record isn't good enough, God knows what they must have though of his predecessors.

I love stats. And I love history. 

Stats and history together........

I'm going to have to have a lie down 

[BathRam72]

Here's a plan.

Let's sack Mac and bring in Wassall until the end of the season.

Then bring in a new manager and give him a dozen games or so. If we are not in the top 2, get rid of him and give the new guy about the same amount of games and see where he is. If it is not where most of us expect, I.E top 6, let's get rid of him and bring Wassall in until the end of the season.

For gods sake give the man who has come in and inherited a mish mash team of at least 4 different managers, a chance.

The trouble is when Pearson left we were bottom 3, we then had that 'new manager' bounce and we got into the playoffs (with a lot of luck and a team cobbled together and many playing out of position). All of a sudden the expectations are raised above where we actually are as a squad. Suddenly we are now finding our real potential in this league which hopefully top half at best with the current crop. (And correct me if I am wrong, most of us would have taken top half after the first 12 games). Now we ant a new manager???

Some on here need to take a step back and manage their expectations.

Rant over

[Curtains]

50 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

So he left for what was a better job at the time, what is wrong with that? He hasn't had his chance at Derby IMO, he's had one full season with us over two spells, both times he was hired he's inherited someone else's squad. 

 

From one David to another David I assume happy St Davids day lol. 

[Animal is a Ram]

10 minutes ago, Ramshankered said:

My two cents: Stick with Steve. Give him time to fix things. Play the long ball game (not on the pitch...but you get my drift). 

As much as results need to improve, likewise some Derby fans really need to get better at managing their own expectations. It would've been miraculous for McClaren to not only turn us around but get us promoted after the start we had.

The majority of Champ teams that go up do so by giving their manager opportunity to build. Brighton are a good example - it's not happened overnight. They've built over 2-3 seasons with Hughton at the helm. Same goes for Boro last year with Karanka. Leicester with Pearson. Burnley with Dyche. The list goes on.

Yes - there are occasional exceptions where the hiring / firing approach works (Watford spring to mind), but by and large it doesn't work. You only have to look down the road to see the results.

The current run sucks - but I would be far, far more disappointed if we fired yet another manager. 

Exactly this.

and the exception in Watford is because they picked managers/head coaches that fit the system. That's supposed to be what the Derby Way is. Whoever comes in can pick up the baton, not throw it away in favour of a screwdriver.

Two things I don't understand, however:

First - the midfield in the 10 unbeaten run was Johnson, Butterfield, Hughes. All three fit and available last night. De Sart preferred again.

Second - the last few games we've seen improvements when we go 4-2-3-1, but only ever play this when chasing the game. Why not try it from the start? What do we have to lose? If it doesn't work, go back to the 4-3-3.

[Carnero]

Would be interesting if someone could run a poll on whether people still BACK or want to SACK The Mac *** HINT HINT @Mostyn6 HINT HINT ***

Personally I BACK him 100% - we must at least give him the whole of next season with his own team and judge him when his 18 month contract expires in the summer of 2018.

[Mostyn6]

18 minutes ago, ROKERITE said:

A manager who has proved he can take a team into The Premier League as Champions is sacked after fourteen matches to almost universal approval. A manager who failed miserably to take a club up despite nearly two full seasons in charge and who has never achieved promotion as a manager anywhere is supported by an overwhelming majority of fans.

Ah well, if he's still at Derby next season that'll be another one stuck in The Championship.

What the hell are you droning on about?

how have you managed to misinterpret a very simple "let's look at Brighton/Hughton and copy" and read it as "McClaren is better than Hughton"?

you need to learn to read proper-like!