Steve McClaren

[Mostyn6]

3 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Me pulling your chain and being pedantic 

times are a serious man,.. dont do it!

[Spanish]

2 hours ago, rammieib said:

The guys record this season without his own players and with injuries to two key players is still top six.

Yet some people want rid. Wow.

Hi

Top 6 in what way?  I thought that in terms of performance since 12/10 but by my calculations (big caveat!) comes out as ninth

[cannable]

4 hours ago, NewhallRam71 said:

As much as I was hopeful that the return of Mac would also see the high energy, fast flowing, entertaining football of the previous Mac era its quite clearly a long way away and I have to admit to being concerned at the clubs current state.

When Mac joined us last time, he took on a young, hungry team that had grown stale under Nigel. He was able to tap into their youth and ambition to get into the premier league and along with his renowned loan contacts and modern coaching methods he transformed us and we were unlucky not to go up.

I think I'm right in saying that there wasn't a player in the Play Off final team (Possibly George Thorne?) that had any Premier League experience and the contracts that the players were on at that time reflected their careers to date. They were paid well, but nowhere near Prem League wages.

The following season, it was pretty much the same dynamic, another couple of good loans and the star performers from the Wembley team were rewarded with improved contracts. If it hadn't been for injuries (Thorne, Eustace, Mascarell, Martin, Bent) then who knows where we would have ended up. Its interesting that we set a defensive record in that season before the capitulation started once again. Although personally I don't buy the Mac/Newcastle thing as an excuse.

With Mac departed, and a young progressive coach in Paul Clement appointed, we seemed to continue to be a prudent and well run club. After the previous season's failure it just looked like we needed to add some depth to the squad to cover for the injuries that derailed us.

However IMO the transfer business of season 2015/16 has and continues to have a damaging effect on the club as a whole.

I agree with you up to here. 

I don't agree it's a lack of hunger stemming from big wages that's the problem.

We stopped buying footballers. Olsson's more comfortable on the ball than Fozzy, say what you want about him slowing the play down but at least Butters wants the ball to feet, Baird who can use the ball intelligently and Ince. After that you're left with Camara, Johnson, Shackell, Weimann, Bent, Blackman. Vydra, Anya and if we're going to be harsh, Pearce. 

Pearce was a better version of Whitbread, fair enough. The Shackell money should have been spent on centre-half that's good on the ball but better defensively than Bucko (Tarkowski? Liam Moore?). If we were going to replace Ward with a player who isn't even a winger then we might as well have kept Ward. 

It's no surprise that in his first window McClaren's signed a striker who tries to get involved in Nugent and a controlling midfielder in De Sart.

Our signings have been so poor that, whilst I may not have signed better, even I knew not to waste money on them. fair play to Pearce and BJ though. Even if only for this season they found a role and turned their Derby careers around.

[duncanjwitham]

43 minutes ago, jagerbob said:

BUT ....

two many players can only play one way, and 1 trick ponys are a receipe for disaster.

 

It's not about only being able to play one way.  Every single player will have strengths and weaknesses, they have things they will be good at, and things they will be bad at.  That's just a fact, especially at this level (where if they were great at everything, they'd be signed by premier league clubs within minutes).  If you take Burnley's squad from last season and set them up to play possession football from the back, they'll fail spectacularly, but if play to their strengths and they got promoted.  If you take McClaren's squad from last time and set them up to play direct to a mobile target man (like Burley did with Andre Gray), they'll fail, but ask them to play high tempo possession from the back, and we came damn close to getting promoted twice.  

That applies on an individual level too.  Give Will Hughes license to roam and people to pass to, he'll play well. Put him in midfield on his own and he'll struggle.  Give Bryson license to make runs beyond the forward and he'll play well. Ask him to sit deep and he'll struggle.  Give Keogh lots of possession and he'll play well.  Ask him to deal with midfield players running at him 20 times a game and he'll struggle.  Give Vydra lots of flick-ons to run onto and he'll be effective. Ask him to drop deep and link the play and he'll struggle.

The problem we have at the moment, is that there isn't a clear set of strengths we can play to - we have half of McClaren's possession based squad still here, the scatter-gun signings made by Clement, and the headless chickens signed by Pearson.  You can't play direct because we don't have anyone to hold the ball up.  You can't play counter-attacking because we don't have a disciplined midfield or defence set up to withstand sustained pressure.  You can't play possession because we don't have a forward to link the play and a fit holding midfielder to control the game (not to mention the number of players with poor technique that makes it difficult to move the ball quickly enough).  This is why we're so inconsistent and disjointed, there literally isn't a way of playing that suits the strengths of enough members of our current squad.  

[Tombo]

It's amazing how the same people that say 'our players aren't good enough' are the same ones wanting us to sack McClaren.

What do you want him to do with such an obviously poor and fragile squad?

[SWRam]

7 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Literally never? So you didn't get behind him when he got us to the play off final? You didn't support him during our winning/unbeaten run? You wouldn't support him if we repeated our 7 game winning run? (unlikely I know). 

I have an immense dislike of Davies and Warnock but, if they were here I'd support them and want them to succeed. For me, the love of Derby far outweighs any personal feelings I have about individuals. 

Nope. Didnt want him to come then and certainly didnt want him the 2nd time round. He inherited a half decent squad from Clough, got a bit of the new manager sparkle and (to be fair I liked this bit) played attacking football and to be fair again nearly made it in the playoffs. However, his style of football was found out early on the next season and he had no plan B or any other ideas. Exactly the same this time. Papered over the cracks initially but again has been found out and lacks the capability to change things up. The longer he stays the worse I believe it will get. As for giving him the summer to get the players he wants, who really believes he is capable of that? Look at the January window, he was happy with his lot.

 

[TuffLuff]

15 minutes ago, Tombo said:

It's amazing how the same people that say 'our players aren't good enough' are the same ones wanting us to sack McClaren.

What do you want him to do with such an obviously poor and fragile squad?

It's easier for them to finger point when everything's going wrong (aka the easy bit that makes them look correct) than to put any thought into actually debating a topic 

[mrdave85]

1 minute ago, SWRam said:

Nope. Didnt want him to come then and certainly didnt want him the 2nd time round. He inherited a half decent squad from Clough, got a bit of the new manager sparkle and (to be fair I liked this bit) played attacking football and to be fair again nearly made it in the playoffs. However, his style of football was found out early on the next season and he had no plan B or any other ideas. Exactly the same this time. Papered over the cracks initially but again has been found out and lacks the capability to change things up. The longer he stays the worse I believe it will get. As for giving him the summer to get the players he wants, who really believes he is capable of that? Look at the January window, he was happy with his lot.

 

Debatable, I believe he said "there was nothing out there". That could be taken as the deals weren't good enough to be made, which could be a good sign that we've moved away from the scatter-gun Clement style signings. 

He's never going to say the squad isn't good enough publicly. No manager would IMO. This is what was said in Jan:

Quote

"I said when I came in that improving on this squad would be very difficult, especially in January," he said.

"There are not many players around. We identified one, which was Chrissy (Martin), who is our player but unfortunately at Fulham.

"There have been other players who we feel would improve us but, unfortunately, they are kind of out of our reach and not available.

"I'm delighted with what I have here and I've said that since day one.

Read more at http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/it-will-be-difficult-to-improve-derby-county-squad-before-transfer-deadline-admits-steve-mcclaren/story-30071727-detail/story.html#cUtf64Gx82AaOudR.99

 

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

Debatable, I believe he said "there was nothing out there". That could be taken as the deals weren't good enough to be made, which could be a good sign that we've moved away from the scatter-gun Clement style signings. 

He's never going to say the squad isn't good enough publicly. No manager would IMO. This is what was said in Jan:

 

He also had the issue that the two most important positions we needed to strengthen (holding midfield and striker) were going to have top class players available next season.  So we could go and spend millions on Rhodes or Hogan or whoever, but we're (almost certainly) getting Martin back for effectively a free transfer next season.  Likewise with Thorne.  We ended up getting a loan in to cover Thorne, and a slightly different type of forward in to cover Martin, and while the jury is still out on both of them, at least they were sensible signings trying to address a need in the squad.

[Carnero]

11 minutes ago, SWRam said:

Nope. Didnt want him to come then and certainly didnt want him the 2nd time round. He inherited a half decent squad from Clough, got a bit of the new manager sparkle and (to be fair I liked this bit) played attacking football and to be fair again nearly made it in the playoffs. However, his style of football was found out early on the next season and he had no plan B or any other ideas. Exactly the same this time. Papered over the cracks initially but again has been found out and lacks the capability to change things up. The longer he stays the worse I believe it will get. As for giving him the summer to get the players he wants, who really believes he is capable of that? Look at the January window, he was happy with his lot.

 

We were top of the bloody league after 33 games, before injuries to Martin, Buxton & all 3 of our DM's!

[Inverurie Ram]

2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

is this the same Steve Bruce currently managing a Premier League team, with the 15th highest wage bill in the WORLD, 

AND

the team that in addition to the above has spent more money in the last 8 months than 15 Premier League teams?

Yeah,... they storming the Championship this seasons aren't they?... oh.. wait...

Early days, he's not had several goes at Villa, like SM has had at Derby in whatever form, player, coach etc.

Villa are a championship team, when you are in the championship, you are a championship team.

And how much money have Derby spent since we've been stuck in the championship.

Put it this way, this time next year, I would predict Villa will be in the top 6 and will get promoted, Derby won't get promoted.

[Alph]

6 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

I'm surprised people are so shocked that we're having the same problems we have done over the last few years, when we've got the same core group of players and the same manager. Why hasn't SMC got a plan B? 

We haven't got the same core group. There's like 3 of them? 4? In a 20 man squad. 

It's not the same manager. 

It's not been the same owners. 

Not the same recruitment team.

What's a plan B? What teams chop and change their style and system? 

[cannable]

1 hour ago, SWRam said:

Nope. Didnt want him to come then and certainly didnt want him the 2nd time round. He inherited a half decent squad from Clough, got a bit of the new manager sparkle and (to be fair I liked this bit) played attacking football and to be fair again nearly made it in the playoffs. However, his style of football was found out early on the next season and he had no plan B or any other ideas. Exactly the same this time. Papered over the cracks initially but again has been found out and lacks the capability to change things up. The longer he stays the worse I believe it will get. As for giving him the summer to get the players he wants, who really believes he is capable of that? Look at the January window, he was happy with his lot.

 

I.e. you made up your mind about him in September 2013 and it's final…

[Purpleram]

19 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

How is he failing? His job remits would have been...

- steer clear of relegation places - achieves

- Get the team scoring again - acheived

- Improve team performances - achieved

- Improve player performances - achieved

- Give fans something to cheer about again - achieved

 

Simply the most deluded post EVER

[LittleEatonRam]

4 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

Track record, yeah wonderful

So, to summarise, you've got nothing to come back with on that one.

4 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

please be the first to remind me when he wins Derby promotion

I will.

[SWRam]

24 minutes ago, cannable said:

I.e. you made up your mind about him in September 2013 and it's final…

Yes.

Nothing he has done since has changed my opinion of him.

[cannable]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

We haven't got the same core group. There's like 3 of them? 4? In a 20 man squad. 

It's not the same manager. 

It's not been the same owners. 

Not the same recruitment team.

What's a plan B? What teams chop and change their style and system? 

I don't even get Plan B anyway. 

How do we use a Plan B? We can't possibly know going into a game whether the opposition will be able to stifle us or not. So do we just go into every different game using a different system and hoping it works? How big a squad would we need to do that?

Does Plan B mean changing system mid game? Well this is something that can be done to an extent but how would changing system help you if the opposition's defending deep and you just aren't good enough to break them down? Do you purposely allow them to have the ball?! 

Plan B, Mentality… excuses. The issue is shocking signings and different managers being given money to spend despite having different ideas.

 

[Bris Vegas]

19 minutes ago, Purpleram said:

Simply the most deluded post EVER

Have we not steered clear of the relegation places?

Have we not scored more goals under Mac? We scored three in nine games under Pearson, and under Mac we've scored 30 in 23. Go figure...

Improve team performances... Have we not done that? Dont you remember the 1-0 defeat at Burton Albion where we were dire... Or the 2-0 loss at Barnsley? Compare that to Mac's reign.

Haven't the likes of Hughes, Bent and Ince played better under Mac?

Were you not cheering when we beat Forest 3-0? Or when we also scored three goals against Reading, Wolves, Ipswich, Rorherham? Or when we won 7 on the spin? Or did you prefer Pearson's reign?

 

[Derbylad92]

15 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Have we not steered clear of the relegation places?

Have we not scored more goals under Mac? We scored three in nine games under Pearson, and under Mac we've scored 30 in 23. Go figure...

Improve team performances... Have we not done that? Dont you remember the 1-0 defeat at Burton Albion where we were dire... Or the 2-0 loss at Barnsley? Compare that to Mac's reign.

Haven't the likes of Hughes, Bent and Ince played better under Mac?

Were you not cheering when we beat Forest 3-0? Or when we also scored three goals against Reading, Wolves, Ipswich, Rorherham? Or when we won 7 on the spin? Or did you prefer Pearson's reign?

 

Thats called the honneymoon period alot of managers have this and will hughes went on but has lost form last few weeks 

[Purpleram]

21 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Have we not steered clear of the relegation places?

Have we not scored more goals under Mac? We scored three in nine games under Pearson, and under Mac we've scored 30 in 23. Go figure...

Improve team performances... Have we not done that? Dont you remember the 1-0 defeat at Burton Albion where we were dire... Or the 2-0 loss at Barnsley? Compare that to Mac's reign.

Haven't the likes of Hughes, Bent and Ince played better under Mac?

Were you not cheering when we beat Forest 3-0? Or when we also scored three goals against Reading, Wolves, Ipswich, Rorherham? Or when we won 7 on the spin? Or did you prefer Pearson's reign?

 

Heading towards relegation trouble?

Still not scoring enough, one shot against winless Villa?

Improvement, well that fell flat pretty quick

No, not particularly.

I cheer every win, as I die a little inside bit every time we don't turn up or play that tippy tappy sideways. backwards cack we have been subjected to pretty much from 6 games into that 'run' of wins.

Mac out!