Nick Blackman - Let's give him a chance

[Millenniumram]

I agree with a lot of this thread in that I believe he needs a chance, he does look like he's got something in his locker that he hasn't got out yet, I think he's got a powerful shot and is quite fast, however with the little we've seen him it's difficult to really judge his strengths and weaknesses as of yet. However I will say one thing, I'm fairly certain he isn't a striker, I see him as a right sided inside forward, very much like Ince which is what concerns me. A good player Blackman is, I can't see him getting that place off Ince, I believe they're similar in style- cutting inside, good finisher, long shots etc, but I don't think Blackman is as intelligent as Ince, nor as technical with how he can beat defenders. Hopefully Mac can find a role for him, but I don't believe it can be in that number 9 role

[Coneheadjohn]

28 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said:

Would love to see him back but it's not up to me to decide what's the best for the player though. 

Sorry mate,I was just trying to lighten the mood.So would I but it's not happening,I think.

 

[DEL]

3 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said:

Sorry mate,I was just trying to lighten the mood.So would I but it's not happening,I think.

 

Haha I know you're trying but I think you're right about that. 

[Sparkle]

Blackman will be given a chance, after bent is tired or injured or suspended or after Vydra is tired injured or suspended or after anybody else we sign is tired injured or suspended.

[BobbyD]

Haven't seen anything in Blackman to suggest that he is our future answer.

But he has hardly had a chance, and has been in a team in turmoil since he signed (four managers in the ten months after he signed)  - hardly his fault

Now that we have consistency, calmness and a proven way of playing, it would be crazy not give him a chance, and corporate negligence not to try to get the value from our significant investment. And we have a need.

Why wouldn't you ? 

[angieram]

I'm looking forward to seeing what McClaren can do with him. We've waited the best part of a year, I don't mind waiting a bit longer. Let's give him to the end of the season and see what he shows. 

[jono]

5 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Vydra out wide? It's obvious he can't play by himself in the central role like he did at Fulham....

I would go Ince, Bent and Camara as the front 3 v Brum...

I think this is a sound idea but I'd add .. What about Vydra in one of the wide roles ?

one thing I am sure about is Blackman can't play the wide role. Maybe, he could be a centre forward. That is an unknown, but every time he has been out wide he has looked lost and not up to it, out gunned. 

left hand side is JR / Camara / Weiman .. maybe Vydra and Ince could do it but it isn't Nick Blackmans slot. He's in the middle or nowhere ( IMO  ) 

[cannable]

Ooooo the old pace argument! 

I can name top slow forwards, crap slow forwards, good pacey players and crap pacey players. 

You go with the types of players that suit your team. We need somebody to help bring our midfield into play so we can start dominating again. 

We're lethal on the break without a true packet forward and we were when we had Martin. 

For a fast striker to work we need to change the dynamics of our midfield to accommodate. We would need a true #10.

[toddy]

9 minutes ago, cannable said:

Ooooo the old pace argument! 

I can name top slow forwards, crap slow forwards, good pacey players and crap pacey players. 

You go with the types of players that suit your team. We need somebody to help bring our midfield into play so we can start dominating again. 

We're lethal on the break without a true packet forward and we were when we had Martin. 

For a fast striker to work we need to change the dynamics of our midfield to accommodate. We would need a true #10.

Our team is moving on from the system and players we had in 13/14.

We do need some decent midfielders capable of moving the ball faster and more accurately than we are used.

We need a true number 10?

What's a true number 10 apart from a player after a 9?

 

[cannable]

15 minutes ago, toddy said:

Our team is moving on from the system and players we had in 13/14.

Which is why we have reappointed the manager we had back then with the idea of him building up to that style of football again? 

We do need some decent midfielders capable of moving the ball faster and more accurately than we are used.

We need a true number 10?

What's a true number 10 apart from a player after a 9?

You can't honestly be serious? 

 

[Alph]

4 hours ago, toddy said:

Walcott is not a world beater because he doesn't have all the skill and pace.

A player with all the skill or a player with all the skill and pace?

In the last 30 years football as evolved where fitness and pace are paramount within a team, you add a player that can shoot and dribble and pass, then you have a player!

I am glad you mentioned Maldini, because he had so much pace that wingers needed 3 yd start on him and he still managed to get his legendary sliding tackles in, Yes pace is what separates the wheat from the Chaff. Maldini had a footballing brain, the skill and the pace and that's what made him so special as a full back and one of the quickest I ever seen play [ You might not know this but Maldini started out as a winger.]

Possibly the greatest front line ever to grace a football team current play at Barcelona,  Messi, Neymar and Suarez - all have fantastic skill and pace.

They all have fantastic pace and every other attribute. But it's got bugger all to do with what we are talking about. You're suggesting playing Vydra in a fast front 3 and making the midfield pass faster and more accurate (how do you make that happen?). I'm saying no, we don't need Vydra trying to use his pace on the last man. We need him dropping in.

I don't need an education on Maldini cheers. Or any AC Milan player. I'd bet money I've seen both play more times than you. Do you know what age he played until at the highest level? Did you sleep through the start of the season?

Interesting you mention Messi and Suarez pace. This is Messi who drops deep? Doesn't play on the shoulder, brings his team forward. This is Messi that has always used others overlaps to create him space? 

It's not the running speed is it? They're their teams best players. They fit their teams. Vydra isn't fitting what we want. We don't want him hanging on the arse of the last defender as we try to build up with 10 men. Which is why Bent is starting. If pace was that important then he wouldn't be would he? Weimann would. 

3 hours ago, McLovin said:

If you don't think pace makes a difference, go watch Bayern 0 Real Madrid 4 from a few years ago. Real Madrid battered Bayern because of how quick they were on the counter attack. Also Bayern 7 Barca 0 over 2 legs, Bayern battered Barca because of their pace and strength. Obviously you need more than just pace to play at a high level but many professional defenders(like pique) admit they don't like playing against quick players, especially on 1 v 1 situations. Also don't think the criticism on Walcott is justified because he has been one of the best wingers in the prem this season. Liverpool's front 3 who are quick and interchangeable will be the blueprint in the English game soon, like it is abroad, see Sanchez playing up front for Arsenal now. Quick forwards who can interchange positions in order to win the ball back quickly. Sure you have the likes of Theo Robinson who are quick but have no technique which is fair enough but on the other hand the strikers in every top team in Europe have pace and technique

You have missed my point entirely. 

I heard all about how great it's going to be to have all that pace running in behind. It got us the lowest scorers in England and Scotland. 

Like I said, we don't want the front 3 running away from us. That's not what Martin did when he scored 60 goals for us, it's not what Darren Bent has done to get in ahead of a faster just as technically talented Vydra. 

There's no right way to win. And all these examples are once again missing the point I'm making. If the player doesn't fit the team, if the team doesn't bring out a players qualities then it doesn't matter how fast a bloke can run does it? You're naming Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. These two are pretty good teams no? Don't just play the fastest front 3 and ask their midfield to pass "faster and more accurate" to suit their fastest players. They have used the strengths of the best players they can buy. From Morientes and Raul to Ronaldo and Bale. 

The idea that we play Vydra because he's fast and then we all work to feed him is absurd. It sounds very much like Nigel Pearson talk if playing the fittest and fastest 11 and getting the ball forward asap. Sticking Hughes and Bryson in DM because all he wanted to do was use our speed. 

Doesn't work. Because it's football not racing 

"Strikers in every top team in Europe have pace and technique"

Well yeah, the top teams will have the most complete players. Not really relevant to us though is it? Who's more scary, Rashford or Zlatan? Who offers Man City more penetration, Silva or Navas. But who would offer Ranieri more? It'd be Rashford and Navas

Here at Derby, Bent will continue to play ahead of Vydra not because he's faster or more technically gifted but because he's offering himself as a genuine target that can keep possession for more than a second. And it's the same all over the world. You go with players based on their ability to bring others into play. Not those who look the dogs logs in a 1v1. Because it's not 1v1. 

I really can't believe after we had that clown in charge that people think pace and more pace and hard work goes such a long way. My dog could do all that. Easy. 

[Alph]

42 minutes ago, toddy said:

Our team is moving on from the system and players we had in 13/14.

We do need some decent midfielders capable of moving the ball faster and more accurately than we are used.

We need a true number 10?

What's a true number 10 apart from a player after a 9?

 

Did you go on holiday in August?

[Shuff264]

Would be very interested to see him in a central striker role, that position is really up for grabs until one of Bent, Vydra or Blackman starts scoring regularly. Someone needs to start taking the load of Ince before his goals dry up and we're left in a goal-less Pearson esque scenario again.

[Rev]

It's kind of missing the point to say we're moving away from the way we used to play.

We're not moving away from it because it was unsuccessful, or because Mac thinks 3 pacy forwards is the way to go, or because it's gone out of fashion.

We've moved away from it because the one striker we own who is capable of playing such a system is currently fookin about in West London, having being bombed out by Pearson.

You can bet your bottom dollar we're moving heaven and earth to get him back, and if we can't we'll try and sign a like for like replacement.

 

[jono]

4 hours ago, Alpha said:

They all have fantastic pace and every other attribute. But it's got bugger all to do with what we are talking about. You're suggesting playing Vydra in a fast front 3 and making the midfield pass faster and more accurate (how do you make that happen?). I'm saying no, we don't need Vydra trying to use his pace on the last man. We need him dropping in.

I don't need an education on Maldini cheers. Or any AC Milan player. I'd bet money I've seen both play more times than you. Do you know what age he played until at the highest level? Did you sleep through the start of the season?

Interesting you mention Messi and Suarez pace. This is Messi who drops deep? Doesn't play on the shoulder, brings his team forward. This is Messi that has always used others overlaps to create him space? 

It's not the running speed is it? They're their teams best players. They fit their teams. Vydra isn't fitting what we want. We don't want him hanging on the arse of the last defender as we try to build up with 10 men. Which is why Bent is starting. If pace was that important then he wouldn't be would he? Weimann would. 

You have missed my point entirely. 

I heard all about how great it's going to be to have all that pace running in behind. It got us the lowest scorers in England and Scotland. 

Like I said, we don't want the front 3 running away from us. That's not what Martin did when he scored 60 goals for us, it's not what Darren Bent has done to get in ahead of a faster just as technically talented Vydra. 

There's no right way to win. And all these examples are once again missing the point I'm making. If the player doesn't fit the team, if the team doesn't bring out a players qualities then it doesn't matter how fast a bloke can run does it? You're naming Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. These two are pretty good teams no? Don't just play the fastest front 3 and ask their midfield to pass "faster and more accurate" to suit their fastest players. They have used the strengths of the best players they can buy. From Morientes and Raul to Ronaldo and Bale. 

The idea that we play Vydra because he's fast and then we all work to feed him is absurd. It sounds very much like Nigel Pearson talk if playing the fittest and fastest 11 and getting the ball forward asap. Sticking Hughes and Bryson in DM because all he wanted to do was use our speed. 

Doesn't work. Because it's football not racing 

"Strikers in every top team in Europe have pace and technique"

Well yeah, the top teams will have the most complete players. Not really relevant to us though is it? Who's more scary, Rashford or Zlatan? Who offers Man City more penetration, Silva or Navas. But who would offer Ranieri more? It'd be Rashford and Navas

Here at Derby, Bent will continue to play ahead of Vydra not because he's faster or more technically gifted but because he's offering himself as a genuine target that can keep possession for more than a second. And it's the same all over the world. You go with players based on their ability to bring others into play. Not those who look the dogs logs in a 1v1. Because it's not 1v1. 

I really can't believe after we had that clown in charge that people think pace and more pace and hard work goes such a long way. My dog could do all that. Easy. 

Cracking premier league rant, and I nearly agree ..... I think the thing is that Vydra does have the technical ability to do that AND he has pace. I honestly think with the right coaching in our system he could be a star. ... But yep ... It isn't 1 V 1 

[archied]

My gut feeling is that we will see a slight change in the way Mac wants us to play ( evolve) , I don't think he wants our midfield streaming past the forwards as much as we used to and I think that's why we are seeing the butterfield , Hughes combo kind of staking a claim as the two in front of the holding mid brad/ Thorne ,, both Hughes and butters have decent vision and can play a pass , I think this helps us retain shape and defend better when attacks break down ,,, that said we still need a striker who can and will drop deep but I think we will now look at the option of either finding or developing one of our strikers to do that comfortably but also have the pace to turn and go once he s done that ,, the confusion for me is that a lot of fans see the value Martin has and brought to us and think we are totally abandoning those qualities where as for me we are perhaps looking for an upgrade on Martin i.e. A players that can do a lot of what Martin did but also have real pace in his locker ,, Martin has been and still is a bloody good player at this level but Mac may find it easier to try to upgrade him now he has gone already rather than trying to do that when he was/ is a very popular player with fans and in the dressing room ,, watching how the Bryson situation develops will tell us quite a bit ,,, by whether he claims a regular starting spot or not

[B4ev6is]

I know many of you will think total insane idea but i would love to see carma and ince playing upfront togather if will huges is struggling have vryda playing just behind front 2 making it 3 man attack and make it hard for oppsition who to pick up.

[Anag Ram]

18 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

I know many of you will think total insane idea but i would love to see carma and ince playing upfront togather if will huges is struggling have vryda playing just behind front 2 making it 3 man attack and make it hard for oppsition who to pick up.

Not insane in the sense that all three have pace which would unsettle most defences but they would all need to come short for the ball, allowing defences to keep a high line.

Certainly not daft and the type of experiment you might try if against bigger, slower defenders who thrive on the high ball.

[Wignall12]

On 25/12/2016 at 07:19, archied said:

My gut feeling is that we will see a slight change in the way Mac wants us to play ( evolve) , I don't think he wants our midfield streaming past the forwards as much as we used to and I think that's why we are seeing the butterfield , Hughes combo kind of staking a claim as the two in front of the holding mid brad/ Thorne ,, both Hughes and butters have decent vision and can play a pass , I think this helps us retain shape and defend better when attacks break down ,,, that said we still need a striker who can and will drop deep but I think we will now look at the option of either finding or developing one of our strikers to do that comfortably but also have the pace to turn and go once he s done that ,, the confusion for me is that a lot of fans see the value Martin has and brought to us and think we are totally abandoning those qualities where as for me we are perhaps looking for an upgrade on Martin i.e. A players that can do a lot of what Martin did but also have real pace in his locker ,, Martin has been and still is a bloody good player at this level but Mac may find it easier to try to upgrade him now he has gone already rather than trying to do that when he was/ is a very popular player with fans and in the dressing room ,, watching how the Bryson situation develops will tell us quite a bit ,,, by whether he claims a regular starting spot or not

At last ! ........we seem to be coming round to the idea we might "evolve" without CM, I applaud your post , I'd like to see Camara get more game time

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Wignall12 said:

At last ! ........we seem to be coming round to the idea we might "evolve" without CM, I applaud your post , I'd like to see Camara get more game time

Of course there is always the odd possibility that we could "evolve" with CM! Too radical that?