Boxing Thread

[Bris Vegas]

Having spoken with a couple very close to David Haye, they believe he won't get the Joshua fight for at least another 18 months as they still see Haye as a dangerous fighter.

I like AJ, think he can become a heavyweight great, but I'd much rather see him face the best in their prime. I know it's not wise, but I'd hate to see him take the Mayweather route and only face the very best once they're over the hill.

Klitschko is obviously over the hill, that's not AJ´s fault, but I'd be disappointed to see him hold out on Haye and Wilder. 

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

After watching the pad work yesterday, the difference in power and speed is huge. Maybe Bellew was holding back, but he hasn't got a chance imo. If he isn't knocked out by round two, Haye will go to the body. Make sure Bellew is losing recovery time etc so the middle rounds are easier for himself. 

Haye is just ******* everyone around with the yachts and the injuries. Hes got Shane in on it, so im assuming the money available for fighting Joshua is huge. Haye is making sure hes the opposite of Joshua. People are going to want "boring" Joshua to be trash talked, wound up and given a fight. Haye is making himself the one the public will want to fight Joshua. The bad blood with Hearn helps too. Very cleverly done imo. He's not stupid, though - you can tell from his interviews.

And that's why I hate the cnut. Because he's a stage manager. Everything he says, everything he does, every fight he picks is carefully managed to 'trick' the public.

Like losing his temper and saying what he thinks. Rubbish. He's never lost his temper because he's in it purely from a business angle and he doesnt see belts, big fights or a legacy. He sees pound notes. 

He accused Joshua of being scripted. Joshua is in the position (after winning Olympic gold) where the worst thing he can do from a PR perspective is talk. If he stays quiet then he remains a hero. Opposite of Tyson Fury who had to talk to get noticed. 

But Haye is scripted. He's so predictable. The rivalry with Briggs... funny how Haye's temper just trailed off when nobody was arsed about the fight.

As soon as the Bellew rivalry looked like it could sell then suddenly his temper is ferocious. 

Talking about fighting Joshua next. Why? Because you've beat an ozzy that don't punch, a Swiss diver and thief and a cruiserweight. And he stands there questioning the quality of opponents of an 18 fight old, IBF world Champion who will fight a version of Wlad Klitchsko in fight 19!!!? 

I don't really know why people don't like Bellew but fair enough. But nobody is more manipulative and scripted than Haye. Nobody picks their fights as much. Bellew will fight anyone.

Why isn't Haye fighting Pulev? Why did he choose to ignore the WBO route? Why has he not fighting the top 10 guys. Why is he not fighting Stiverne, Takam or Malik Scott? Why not Ortiz?

He can beat these guys. He's an elite fighter. But he won't fight them because he's not bothered about being the best. He wants to beat up children for money and then when he does take a risk he wants a fortune. 

He did the same to Fury as he did with Briggs. Wasn't worth enough money.

I know everyone does it to some extent. Pulev turned down Joshua. But Haye is fighting cruiserweights and Swiss security guards.

Can't stand the bloke. If every athlete focused purely on easy money then sport would have no spectators and Haye would have to work part time in Aldi. 

Same as Eubank Jnr. Another bully. 

[Chester40]

Always thought Haye was a funny, decent guy. He's building the fight up and I think it will all be hugs and kisses after.

Haye is big favourite, different size, class, power, speed. Unless shoulder is ruined he will win in 2 or 3.

Heard a boxer on Talksport who'd spared with all the Brits..was gob smacked when he said Tyson Fury was easily the best of the bunch!!

[Alph]

12 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Having spoken with a couple very close to David Haye, they believe he won't get the Joshua fight for at least another 18 months as they still see Haye as a dangerous fighter.

I like AJ, think he can become a heavyweight great, but I'd much rather see him face the best in their prime. I know it's not wise, but I'd hate to see him take the Mayweather route and only face the very best once they're over the hill.

Klitschko is obviously over the hill, that's not AJ´s fault, but I'd be disappointed to see him hold out on Haye and Wilder. 

Joshua is only 18 fights old though.

[AmericanRam]

I also predict Haye will win by KO in early rounds, just will have too much for Bellew.

Another fight looking forward to Saturday is Thurman v Garcia.Should be a good one, I will take Garcia in a close decision.

[Alph]

2 minutes ago, AmericanRam said:

I also predict Haye will win by KO in early rounds, just will have too much for Bellew.

Another fight looking forward to Saturday is Thurman v Garcia.Should be a good one, I will take Garcia in a close decision.

Hope Thurman wins though.

Like @Bris Vegas said, for competition it's the best weight in boxing. Great for fans. 

[The_Sheriff]

13 hours ago, Alpha said:

And that's why I hate the cnut. Because he's a stage manager. Everything he says, everything he does, every fight he picks is carefully managed to 'trick' the public.

Like losing his temper and saying what he thinks. Rubbish. He's never lost his temper because he's in it purely from a business angle and he doesnt see belts, big fights or a legacy. He sees pound notes.

He accused Joshua of being scripted. Joshua is in the position (after winning Olympic gold) where the worst thing he can do from a PR perspective is talk. If he stays quiet then he remains a hero. Opposite of Tyson Fury who had to talk to get noticed.

But Haye is scripted. He's so predictable. The rivalry with Briggs... funny how Haye's temper just trailed off when nobody was arsed about the fight.

As soon as the Bellew rivalry looked like it could sell then suddenly his temper is ferocious.

Talking about fighting Joshua next. Why? Because you've beat an ozzy that don't punch, a Swiss diver and thief and a cruiserweight. And he stands there questioning the quality of opponents of an 18 fight old, IBF world Champion who will fight a version of Wlad Klitchsko in fight 19!!!?

I don't really know why people don't like Bellew but fair enough. But nobody is more manipulative and scripted than Haye. Nobody picks their fights as much. Bellew will fight anyone.

Why isn't Haye fighting Pulev? Why did he choose to ignore the WBO route? Why has he not fighting the top 10 guys. Why is he not fighting Stiverne, Takam or Malik Scott? Why not Ortiz?

He can beat these guys. He's an elite fighter. But he won't fight them because he's not bothered about being the best. He wants to beat up children for money and then when he does take a risk he wants a fortune.

He did the same to Fury as he did with Briggs. Wasn't worth enough money.

I know everyone does it to some extent. Pulev turned down Joshua. But Haye is fighting cruiserweights and Swiss security guards.

Can't stand the bloke. If every athlete focused purely on easy money then sport would have no spectators and Haye would have to work part time in Aldi.

Same as Eubank Jnr. Another bully.

Haye is smart. You have pretty much answered your own questions to an extent. It's simple Haye wants to be the best so he got him self into a position where he could shoot up the rankings. Di mori was ranked in the top 10 so that was an easy route back and the other guy had a crazy long unbeaten run so that again boosted him up.

Fighting scott? did you see his fight against Ortiz why would anyone want to pay to see that? He wants the best of the best. Those names you mention are not. He will get far more money and more hype by lining up fights with the likes of Joshua.

He is at the tail end of his career even if it is a new comeback so there's no point in holding back. 

To be the best you have to beat the best. We will see on Saturday whether this new Haye has still got it and if he has then I genuinely believe he is the biggest threat to AJ

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Simsy said:

Haye is smart. You have pretty much answered your own questions to an extent. It's simple Haye wants to be the best so he got him self into a position where he could shoot up the rankings. Di mori was ranked in the top 10 so that was an easy route back and the other guy had a crazy long unbeaten run so that again boosted him up.

Fighting scott? did you see his fight against Ortiz why would anyone want to pay to see that? He wants the best of the best. Those names you mention are not. He will get far more money and more hype by lining up fights with the likes of Joshua.

He is at the tail end of his career even if it is a new comeback so there's no point in holding back. 

To be the best you have to beat the best. We will see on Saturday whether this new Haye has still got it and if he has then I genuinely believe he is the biggest threat to AJ

He has no interest in being the best. He's fighting a cruiserweight on Saturday. If he wanted to be the best he wouldn't have turned his back on the WBA route. He wouldn't have turned his back on Briggs. He would be fighting Stiverne by now to get to the top of the WBC. He'd be fighting Pulev

Yeah, I saw Scott v Ortiz. And whether it was fun or not Malik Scott still carries a very good record and is considered a very good boxer who lacks power. If it's about being the best then these are the guys he can brush aside (because Ortiz couldn't)

He had the chance to fight Briggs and Browne. Didn't take it. He could have been in either Hughie Fury or Joseph Parker fighting for the WBO.

If he really cared about working his way to the top then he'd be going through Teper  (who's fighting a fellow dangerous heavyweight). He'd be going through Pulev. Through Molina, Takam, Povetkin, Washington, Scott, Ortiz ... you know? All these people at Haye's weight that would are/have been fighting other top heavyweights.

Instead Haye picks out Gerjeg or whatever his name was. A guy with an undefeated record that Dillian Whyte didn't even bother with. Forget the record that guy is miles below the level of Haye. There are many undefeated guys in the heavyweight division. There's a German guy that's unbeaten in 20. That's more than Joshua. But there's a reason he's ranked about #50. 

To be the best you have to beat the best. And to fight the best you have to beat the rest. 

So while Ortiz (an undefeated champion) finds Malik Scott worthy. While Joseph Parker (an undefeated champion) finds Hughie Fury worthy. While Deontay Wilder (an undefeated champion) finds Washington worthy. While Joshua  (an undefeated champion) finds Molina worthy. All these guys are not worthy for David Haye? 

He proves himself against a cruiserweight who was knocked out by Adonis Stevenson. ****, he might as well go fight Andre Ward? 

He's standing back and letting them all fight each other while he convinces the public that by knocking out cruiserweights and undefeated YouTube fighters he's worthy of a Jo$$hua shot. And it works. It actually works. 

Haye is a super fighter. But let's imagine that this Saturday was Anthony Joshua vs Denis Lebedev and the winner gets a shot at Wilder. 

It's ********. And that's why I hope Haye gets bolted to the canvas. He won't. But I'd love it. He's a bully like Eubank. A guy who beats up people way below his level and then calls out the big names. While others go out and earn it by fighting the competition 

[The_Sheriff]

43 minutes ago, Alpha said:

He has no interest in being the best. He's fighting a cruiserweight on Saturday. If he wanted to be the best he wouldn't have turned his back on the WBA route. He wouldn't have turned his back on Briggs. He would be fighting Stiverne by now to get to the top of the WBC. He'd be fighting Pulev

Yeah, I saw Scott v Ortiz. And whether it was fun or not Malik Scott still carries a very good record and is considered a very good boxer who lacks power. If it's about being the best then these are the guys he can brush aside (because Ortiz couldn't)

He had the chance to fight Briggs and Browne. Didn't take it. He could have been in either Hughie Fury or Joseph Parker fighting for the WBO.

If he really cared about working his way to the top then he'd be going through Teper  (who's fighting a fellow dangerous heavyweight). He'd be going through Pulev. Through Molina, Takam, Povetkin, Washington, Scott, Ortiz ... you know? All these people at Haye's weight that would are/have been fighting other top heavyweights.

Instead Haye picks out Gerjeg or whatever his name was. A guy with an undefeated record that Dillian Whyte didn't even bother with. Forget the record that guy is miles below the level of Haye. There are many undefeated guys in the heavyweight division. There's a German guy that's unbeaten in 20. That's more than Joshua. But there's a reason he's ranked about #50.

To be the best you have to beat the best. And to fight the best you have to beat the rest.

So while Ortiz (an undefeated champion) finds Malik Scott worthy. While Joseph Parker (an undefeated champion) finds Hughie Fury worthy. While Deontay Wilder (an undefeated champion) finds Washington worthy. While Joshua  (an undefeated champion) finds Molina worthy. All these guys are not worthy for David Haye?

He proves himself against a cruiserweight who was knocked out by Adonis Stevenson. ****, he might as well go fight Andre Ward?

He's standing back and letting them all fight each other while he convinces the public that by knocking out cruiserweights and undefeated YouTube fighters he's worthy of a Jo$$hua shot. And it works. It actually works.

Haye is a super fighter. But let's imagine that this Saturday was Anthony Joshua vs Denis Lebedev and the winner gets a shot at Wilder.

It's ********. And that's why I hope Haye gets bolted to the canvas. He won't. But I'd love it. He's a bully like Eubank. A guy who beats up people way below his level and then calls out the big names. While others go out and earn it by fighting the competition

I think you are not understanding his decisions. I can try answer some of the points. Briggs and Browne rejected the fight after negotiations. It appears Briggs wanted a PPV but the demand wasn't high enough. Haye said he offered Browne 1m to fight and he turned it down but now he's got drug issues anyway. I think Haye would of fought these if negotiations got over the line.

What's for sure is he needed winnable fights in this comeback and to shake of some ring rust against opponents that would enhance his ranking and he did exactly that- easy fights that boost his ranking. Then Bellew who seems to be at his peak called David out. When David seen the high demand he wanted this fight. This fight makes more money then any of the names you mentioned and I genuinely think beating Bellew will put him in a strong position for Joshua especially with the Eddie Hearn link.

He wants a fast track to the top and if he can avoid fighting great but not household names like the ones you mentioned then he's going to do that. Why have a risky fight for half the earnings when you could have an easier one that may set up a huge bill against the worlds no.1 heavyweight?

Its all over for his career if he loses Saturday anyway but I hope he demolishes Bellew.

[Alph]

Briggs and Browne tell a different story.

[Norman]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Briggs and Browne tell a different story.

He has himself ranked, he has established his fan base again and has proved himself ppv worthy again. He now has a big payday with someone he should get rid of quickly. He had none of this 15 months ago. 

There's one thing left. Test the shoulder before moving up in class again. He needs a 4-6 rounder with someone he is more than comfortable to be in with. And here it is. Probably by luck, probably unplanned. He had tried lining up names like Briggs, he tried selling it, but I genuinely dont think the public were interested.

He's also 36, so if there is a safer, quicker way to getting the big fight  with Joshua - the big payday, the titles etc - then I'm not sure there was one.

He has to test the shoulder first. He has to make sure he can come through camps after Fury. Yes, he plans things, yes he sells fights, yes he loves the money and the lifestyle, but I'm not sure things could have gone better in terms of getting ranked, getting through camps, getting his fans back and a major broadcaster trusting him to turn up without injury.

After this fight, if he's tested, I think you will get some of what you wish for. Hes only Got 3 fights after this for me. One this year, two next.

 

[G-Ram]

Bellew is in for the shock of his life when he gets in the ring tommorrow with someone as quick & as powerful as Haye

bellew looked terrified at the weigh in & the sparring partners he got in are nothing like haye. He can keep saying haye isnt a full sized heavyweight that is true but its still a total mismatch. They can go on about ring rust but the worst version of Haye beats the best of bellew. He does everything better, more speed, more power & better footwork 

 

[Norman]

9 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Bellew is in for the shock of his life when he gets in the ring tommorrow with someone as quick & as powerful as Haye

bellew looked terrified at the weigh in & the sparring partners he got in are nothing like haye. He can keep saying haye isnt a full sized heavyweight that is true but its still a total mismatch. They can go on about ring rust but the worst version of Haye beats the best of bellew. He does everything better, more speed, more power & better footwork 

 

I'd love to know what Chisora knows. Part of me thinks Bellew will surprise everyone. I'd love to know if he could take Del Boys bullying ring tactics and heavy weight shots. He'll never say until maybe after the fight, but I'd love to know his true thoughts.

[Alph]

17 minutes ago, Norman said:

He has himself ranked, he has established his fan base again and has proved himself ppv worthy again. He now has a big payday with someone he should get rid of quickly. He had none of this 15 months ago. 

There's one thing left. Test the shoulder before moving up in class again. He needs a 4-6 rounder with someone he is more than comfortable to be in with. And here it is. Probably by luck, probably unplanned. He had tried lining up names like Briggs, he tried selling it, but I genuinely dont think the public were interested.

He's also 36, so if there is a safer, quicker way to getting the big fight  with Joshua - the big payday, the titles etc - then I'm not sure there was one.

He has to test the shoulder first. He has to make sure he can come through camps after Fury. Yes, he plans things, yes he sells fights, yes he loves the money and the lifestyle, but I'm not sure things could have gone better in terms of getting ranked, getting through camps, getting his fans back and a major broadcaster trusting him to turn up without injury.

After this fight, if he's tested, I think you will get some of what you wish for. Hes only Got 3 fights after this for me. One this year, two next.

 

I understand.

I wish Bellew hadn't called him out. Let him float about looking for opponents. He turned his back on the WBO route. A world title. Making him instantly on a par with Wilder or Joshua, Parker, Ortiz. He chose not to. Look how he responds when Bellew brings it up. He knows.

I guess what really grates me is that people are always questioning the choice of opponents for boxers. But then mismatch fights like this sell. 

It's dangerous for starters. 

GGG v Brook

Dave Allen v Luis Ortiz

David Haye v Tony Bellew

Eubank Jnr v Quinlan

And people criticise Joshua!! 18 fights old. 

Haye had 2 fights to test that shoulder. He had a path to a world title. 

Probably gone OTT in my dislike of Haye to be honest Norman.

Fans just want to see the best v the best. No shortcuts. Great fights between  two blokes worthy of each other. No ducking ffs. Like Pulev and Chisora turning down Joshua. 

Haye is a proper political boxer. And Hearn is getting on my nerves with some of these fights. Having Dave Allen go again.

I guess it's just the same old boxing bull pooh. 

And I'll tune in. And hope for Bellew to win. 

But we all know we've seen the end of this movie. Why are we paying to view it?! 

[Norman]

51 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I understand.

I wish Bellew hadn't called him out. Let him float about looking for opponents. He turned his back on the WBO route. A world title. Making him instantly on a par with Wilder or Joshua, Parker, Ortiz. He chose not to. Look how he responds when Bellew brings it up. He knows.

I guess what really grates me is that people are always questioning the choice of opponents for boxers. But then mismatch fights like this sell. 

It's dangerous for starters. 

GGG v Brook

Dave Allen v Luis Ortiz

David Haye v Tony Bellew

Eubank Jnr v Quinlan

And people criticise Joshua!! 18 fights old. 

Haye had 2 fights to test that shoulder. He had a path to a world title. 

Probably gone OTT in my dislike of Haye to be honest Norman.

Fans just want to see the best v the best. No shortcuts. Great fights between  two blokes worthy of each other. No ducking ffs. Like Pulev and Chisora turning down Joshua. 

Haye is a proper political boxer. And Hearn is getting on my nerves with some of these fights. Having Dave Allen go again.

I guess it's just the same old boxing bull pooh. 

And I'll tune in. And hope for Bellew to win. 

But we all know we've seen the end of this movie. Why are we paying to view it?! 

Look at the Canello belt as an example and De Gale being allowed to use his teeth as an excuse to get out of his mandatory. The board's aren't strong enough. The rankings are becoming pointless, the politics overbearing.

I don't know why you pay for it. Youre too intelligent to fall for it all and you know your ****. Probably why you get so wound up on Haye. He stands for everything boxing fans shouldnt like. But I'd like to see him fight Joshua next summer (2018).

The undercards weak too, isn't it? Katie Taylor now acts as a filler for me. Allen is used as the comedy piece, nobody questioning if he's ready for this fight, or if he's getting the best advice. As long as he gives us a couple of one-liners, Hearn will use him. Which leaves us with another London/Liverpool "grudge" match, maliginalli (never get his name right) who can't throw a solid punch anymore (which is a good job cos his opponent has taken too many punches to the head already) and a none title main event. How do they do it?

I'm buying though lol.

[Alph]

3 hours ago, Norman said:

Look at the Canello belt as an example and De Gale being allowed to use his teeth as an excuse to get out of his mandatory. The board's aren't strong enough. The rankings are becoming pointless, the politics overbearing.

I don't know why you pay for it. Youre too intelligent to fall for it all and you know your ****. Probably why you get so wound up on Haye. He stands for everything boxing fans shouldnt like. But I'd like to see him fight Joshua next summer (2018).

The undercards weak too, isn't it? Katie Taylor now acts as a filler for me. Allen is used as the comedy piece, nobody questioning if he's ready for this fight, or if he's getting the best advice. As long as he gives us a couple of one-liners, Hearn will use him. Which leaves us with another London/Liverpool "grudge" match, maliginalli (never get his name right) who can't throw a solid punch anymore (which is a good job cos his opponent has taken too many punches to the head already) and a none title main event. How do they do it?

I'm buying though lol.

Same here... and looking forward to it!! 

I didn't know about Degale. 

Watched The Gloves are Off with Haye Bellew.

Haye actually said something like

"Apparently fighting a cruiserweight is something people want to see now. Apparently that's a thing. I'm a prize fighter and I want to be the biggest PPV fighter on the planet"

I don't like that. I like to think footballers play for glory first and money second. That boxers fight for belts first and money second. 

But I can't really argue with it tbh. I'd rather he did come out and be honest rather than criticise the opponents of others or claim his opponents are at his level. 

Really want Tyson Fury back in the mix. Just want to see the big names clash. Not like @Bris Vegas said where they all fight when ones past their best.

Joshua v Haye needs to happen soon if it's going to happen so I get your point. 

[CWC1983]

This week's BBC boxing podcast is worth a listen. Bunce and Costello previewing tonight's fight and talk about Khan v Pacquiao. 

Bunce can't see it going past 2 rounds and calls it a mismatch, Costello thinks 6 minutes in the ring over the past 5 years might catch up with Haye. 

[Tombo]

Truthfully though, it's hard to say "boxing fans want to see the best vs the best" because clearly if that was true, the money wouldn't be in fights like Haye vs Bellew. You'd have more unifying title matches, if that's what people really want to see, because that would be money. 

Clearly fight fans prefer a good story to "best vs best" because that's what gets the most bums in seats and PPV buys. Fighters going for the money means that fans get what they want.

...in theory anyway.

[whiteroseram]

Could be an interesting one. Not found any streams yet so it might be an old school radio one tonight

[Mostyn6]

11 minutes ago, whiteroseram said:

Could be an interesting one. Not found any streams yet so it might be an old school radio one tonight

if you're on twitter, find a tweeter with a name that contains the word stream and the word king. You'll be fine.