YorkshireRam

12 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

Remember when Ball tore Newcastle a new one in the championship the year they went up as champions and then seemingly fell off the edge of the planet 

Was that the 3-0? The first game they'd lost all season or something I seem to remember (have a vague memory of Gutierez in their yellow kit but may have made that up). I don't think Ball played in that though, was Hulse and Commons up top. 

It was the 2-1 v West Ham which Ball scored in that I remember getting excited by him, and then like you said never seemed to do much else 😂

3 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Find it strange how relaxed people seem about the prospect of McGoldrick leaving, when we don't yet have any solid links for who's supposed to come in and help replace any of the 25 goals (either directly or through assists).

Even the players we've been linked with and/or suggested amongst ourselves, I don't get the impression all  that much is really known about their overall abilities and how they'd fit into the sort of team we want to see?

I certainly don't feel able to make any suggestions myself because I pretty much exclusively watch Derby, I'm just hoping other people have at least seen maybe 5, 10 performances by the players they're suggesting.

We don't yet have any reason to trust our recruitment under the new guy, despite a decent record previously - it's just a leap of faith at this stage!

Two things stop me worrying:

1. His age; while this isn't an issue in terms of individual ability, we're looking at a squad overhaul/rebuild, ideally we'll be signing a striker or 2 to build a team around, which can't happen with a 35 year old as our main striker. 

2. While the prospect of losing a 25-goal a season striker seems daunting, next season the goal responsibility has to be shared more evenly amongst the squad. If we get this balance of play right, we shouldn't need a single talisman to bag 20+ goals. I'd argue it's better to have 3 players hitting 10+ than a single player on 30+...

So while ideally he'll be sticking around, I don't believe it's catastrophic if he does leave, we'll just need to be astute with our recruitment.

Worst:

                         Beck   John

      Fagan    Malcolm    Carroll    Currie

        Lewis   Bragstad     Davis    Coop

                               Carroll

3 hours ago, ram59 said:

I find it strange, the level of vitriol aimed at us for 'our cheating' which only resulted in us getting into severe financial difficulties and relegation. Compare this to the almost acceptance of the cheating from clubs like villa, Bournemouth (twice) and many others, who actually benefited from their cheating.

The size of our online fanbase plays a big part in this. You see it a lot with Leeds as well, we get far more media outlets targeting us for articles because the size of our online presence ensures clicks. This then creates an echo chamber though where we see disproportionately high numbers of articles about us and so more people read about us as a by-product. 

Couple this with the general confusion about our 'misconduct'- the amount of people who STILL believe that our punishment was for selling the stadium and 'cooking the books' is honestly astonishing. These types tend to get quiet very quickly though once it's pointed out we only got punished or our amortisation method which wasn't even explicitly against the rules... 

Combine these two together and it's where this perception that we're 'bad guys' has come from; misunderstanding and it being pedalled by the media a lot. 

2 hours ago, Raich Carter said:

I'd put good money that he's available on a free or a minimal fee at the very best. It's a difficult one - we won't really want to negotiate a contract termination as we'd hope someone comes in for him so it might be a waiting game.

Everyone knows we can't afford to keep him so it's basically a fire sale. At least he got through a season injury free so you'd hope someone would be interested but he has to be gone in the summer. That should free up some funds for transfers too because no doubt his numbers are in the Business Plan we're working to with the EFL but his time here is done. The last remnant of reckless spending.

 

This seems baselessly overly-pessimistic. What if multiple clubs bid for him- a scenario as simple and realistic as that would instantly mean we see more than a ''minimal fee at the very best'' wouldn't it?

Clubs will use our upper wage limit as a bargaining chip to try and lower the asking price, but your comment implies we'd be struggling to find willing suitors - that bit I struggle to see, as he's proved himself a strong CDM at Championship-level who would be available cheaper than others due to his situation...

43 minutes ago, Baffled said:

The attached article from The Athletic https://archive.ph/20211130171732/https://theathletic.com/2666370/2021/06/23/why-derbys-young-star-archie-brown-turned-down-a-new-deal-to-go-to-switzerland/ gives some background as to why Archie left.  The article doesn't actually mention any EFL restrictions.  While that doesn't mean they didn't exist, there is nothing in the article to suggest that Archie was anything other than keen to move on.  While  I used to love watching him play, I think even with  our Rams rose-tinted spectacles on it's a little generous to bracket him with Saka. 

Eight of the starting 11 that night have gone on to have decent league careers - an amazing number.  Let's hope that it's not a one-off........... 

There's a lot of developing between u18s and senior level so I agree, just remember thinking 'wow, our youngsters are THAT good' given the level of hype that was already around Saka.

Did find this cracking photo of Cashin about to crunch him though 😂

On 29/04/2023 at 14:00, angieram said:

Let go, I think.

At the time we'd got Buchanan and Dylan Williams. And we were playing with a flat back four, whereas Archie is a very attacking wingback. Good in air. Would suit Warne.

Was it him that scored the hattrick when the u18s beat Arsenal 5-2 to win the title (think Whittaker got the other 2)?

I remember thinking he'd be the one to make it as it was Bukayo Saka that got the 2 for Arsenal, as even then he had a lot of hype around him... and look at him now. Kind of mental we let an attacking fullback that outscored Saka on the day leave...

4 minutes ago, On the Ram Page said:

 

I am generally a serious individual but I can can take a joke too. The majority of the topics on this site are “serious” though and people care deeply about their club. There is a time and a place to be flippant and when someone tries to give praise where it is totally due (I.e. Rams TV) it is annoying to read comments like yours. I know you probably don’t mean to offend people but just take a moment to see if your comments are apt, rather than just make a jokey headline. Peace.

 

Clearly not 😂

14 hours ago, David said:

To blame him for that clip would be incredibly harsh though..

That was his surprise birthday in which mates were signing with Lampard looking pretty embarrassed by it all. 

It should never have been uploaded to social media, it was by his Mrs, who I will give the benefit of the doubt that perhaps thought people would see the funny side, not realising how sensitive football fans can be.

What is funny, is that it’s being held against him when many do not rate him as manager, surely him leaving would have been welcomed? Yet some have taken it that bad like a jilted lover.

Again in defence of Frank, the move was being dragged out by the negotiations with Sarri leaving, maybe he could have put pressure on Chelsea to just get it done, yet he couldn’t really do much other than wait it out.

Like any manager or player leaving, you don’t really want to comment publicly saying yes I want to leave, until that offer is right there in black and white in front of you to sign. Had Frank publicly made his intentions clear and Chelsea went a different direction at the last minute, that would have been a major egg on face moment with Derby fans already packed his bags on his behalf.

If fans have a bitter taste in their mouth over the Marriott over Bennett decision, I think it’s a bit petty but can understand it, to hold the clip against him, nah.

The culmination of all those things is what begins to sway opinion, I reckon. He makes a baffling decision not to start our best striker in the biggest game of the season, we miss out on promotion, he's then openly touted as being the next Chelsea manager during which the media circus ensures we cannot properly prepare for pre-season, the clip comes out which adds fuel to the flames, and then he finally sods off - while Frank may not be single-handedly responsible for every element of how it went down, the whole thing was just irritating and that does reflect personally on him, rightly or wrongly. 

I think Rowett having walked the season before played a part too, that feeling of betrayal probably still fresh in minds. It was just an annoyingly dragged-out departure, basically. 

3 hours ago, David said:

Wouldn’t describe myself as a fanboy, I just don’t have a bitter bone in my body to not wish the bloke well in his career. Once a Ram, always a Ram and all that. Not like he jumped out the window and went AWOL or anything like that. Still speaks well of the club and left us with some great memories so I have no reason to mock or laugh at his failures.

Has his faults sure, can’t set up a defence, makes mistakes, should have started Marriott at Wembley, I will never be convinced the outcome would have been anything different though. That’s just an opinion, as are those that believe otherwise. 

He has inherited a squad where Sterling is his lone striker, yet we all know Sterling isn’t exactly an out and out goalscorer so to expect anything other than defeat against a quality Real Madrid team, is that really Frank f up? Real battered Liverpool making them look like schoolboys in the previous round, if anyone was expecting Chelsea to somehow cause an upset in these games, well they were wildly optimistic.

I don’t know, just comes across as petty, McClaren is hailed a hero yet benched Bryson in the play off final and ultimately left for Newcastle via the boot.

Not sure what the difference is here, but each to their own I guess.

 

Hughes and Hendrick had both played blinders (and scored) in the semis v Brighton and were playing so well that, at the time, keeping them in the XI made sense. In exactly the same vein, after Marriott performs his heroics and single-handedly gets us to Wembley, why wouldn't you start him...? I get your point but the Bennett thing was far more baffling than Bryson.

And I suspect the sour taste with Lampard comes from the 'Should I Stay or Go' clip, that felt like him openly taunting the club who had handed him his managerial start. If he had that much contempt for the fans who were obviously going to see it, and the club by messing up our pre-season a bit, then I do understand why he isn't remembered totally fondly; even if my personal stance is more ambivalence than anything else.

It's a very interesting point. I think it's more important to have a striker that suits your style of play and generally helps create lots of goals, rather than be the one to necessarily score them all.

I feel like McGoldrick has carried the team in recent months, both in his goals and technical ability. He's pretty much the only one that can make the ball stick in the final third- see the 2nd goal yesterday: clearance header, impeccable touch by Didzy, turn, and then start the pattern of play that leads to the goal.. I'd say that's more important than whoever it was that blasts the ball in from 8 yards to finish the move?

It's worrying to think where we'd be this season without him. I do think it was needed this season with how disjointed the squad is, though- someone that can produce moments of quality is vital in these sort of teams. Next season with a more cohesive squad it'll be interesting to see if we need the same talismanic figurehead, as our overall play should be stronger and we should be less reliant on individuals. 

2 hours ago, fred binneys head said:

And final word to your keeper. What an embarrassment of a man he is. I get game management, taking your time with goal kicks and throw-ins, etc (and we’ve been pretty good at that at times this season, including in the 0-0 at your place), but this guy was just a cheat, plain and simple. The incident when our tiny left back ran up to him, your keeper turned and they touched shoulders and he then threw himself to the ground and asked for the trainer to come on was one of the worst bits of cheating I’ve seen. The referee should have sent him off and kicked him up the arse on the way off for that. Or maybe I’m being a bit sensitive. Either way, the bloke’s a w**ker. Sorry.

While I agree, the defence is that practically every team have done that to us this season- can imagine it can only happen so many times before you think 'if you can't beat them, join them'. In the Ipswich game the other week, we had to deal with it constantly from them, plus the referee disallowing a perfectly valid goal- if you've put up with that all season, I kinda get why you'd stoop to that level because it likely feels like you're the only ones not benefitting from doing it...

If that's ''one of the worst bits of cheating'' you've seen though, you need to watch more of the sport because it's not even close. Diving or deliberate attempts to deceive the referee to gain offensive advantages will always be worse offences by nature. However the time-wasting is not something I like to see in the sport, and did comment as much while watching last night.

18 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Big assertions. Is there even the slightest shred of evidence for any of it? If so please post it, if not let's move on please.

As it happens, I attended meetings with the EFL during administration.

Their main concerns were the preserving the integrity of the competition and ensuring Derby County found a financially sustainable path out of adminstration.

So not only is there no evidence that the EFL "tried to destroy us" there's actually direct evidence to the contrary.

Sad to say but it was Mel Morris that started the "blame the EFL for everything" narrative as a way of distracting us from his own financial mismanagement.

You're undoubtedly Derby through and through B4 and I generally enjoy your positive rallying posts but unfortunately you've fallen for Mel's smoke and mirrors trick...

This is interesting, did they ever provide a rationale as to why they punished us for accounts that were both signed off by the EFL Executive, and weren't explicitly against the rules? It's lovely that they wanted us to get out of admin, but that might never have happened had they actually followed their own rules... By that point, they NEEDED us to get out of admin otherwise they'd be facing a PR nightmare- I believe the ''helpfulness'' towards the end of the process was very much a self-serving attempt to regain face. 

If they really wanted to help, they'd have shut down/postponed Middlesbrough and Wycombe's claims which were hindering potential sales... which they didn't. Ironically, their obstinate stance on ended up being helpful as it stopped Kirchner acquiring the club, so the only real help they provided was entirely accidental 😂

29 minutes ago, David said:

Go on any club forum, or social media hashtag, you will find similar comments by fans up and down the country.

Even in the Premier League they have had some spectacular c*** ups, watch enough football it’s clear there is no Derby County conspiracy theory. 

Decisions that go in our favour don’t stick in the memory unlike those that cost you points, just how it is, yet “some” of our fans have gone full on Alex Jones with it.

I agree and I made sure to consider confirmation bias before I posted. Ask any Derby fan and they could have told you over a decade ago that Stuart Attwell isn't a particularly good referee, and yet he's considered one of the best in the country now and was put in the position to really mess up the Spurs Brighton game. It's a problem that's plaguing every level of the game at the moment, it's not exclusively an 'us' problem.

However, even with that context, it just feels like we're on the wrong side of more bad decisions than most. We've had the most penalties given against us than any other team in the league (9), but the disallowed goal the other week due to miscommunication is the one that really stings- completely ruined the game through sheer incompetence. Apologies after the fact mean nothing, I'd just like more consistency. At every level this needs investigating now, as the standard of officiating does seem to be, as Darren Bent put it on talksport last night, at an ''all-time low''...

12 hours ago, David said:

Watching on RamsTV with replays, it was never a penalty. You would be fuming had it been given against us, no doubt calling it an EFL conspiracy 

Isn't the issue that the reverse does seem to happen, but inconsistency means we never seem to get them give our way? Lincoln (A) had arguably less contact, Plymouth (A) is another example. Those 'soft' penalties seem to regularly be given against us, but never for us. 

While I don't personally buy into the conspiracy, it's very easy to see where it comes from. We were treated unfairly by the EFL, with the ramifications of their decisions still being felt, and this perceived bias in officiating did seem to begin alongside that whole debacle, hence why I imagine people are linking the two. 

We're just seemingly always on the wrong-side of officiating inconsistency, and that's really frustrating. 

26 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

OK but in that case why state in your original post that

"this just so happened to coincide with the start of Gibson's and the EFL's media campaign against us."

It gives the impression that you think the EFL are responsible for creating the context that has led to the unconscious bias doesn't it?

I mean, they did retrospectively punish us for something that wasn't explicitly against the rules until last year... The dogmatic manner in which they pursued it will have contributed to the narrative that we are 'villains'. Add to that the fact that the leaks to the media came directly from Trevor Birch's office, and I don't think it's unreasonable to say they heavily contributed to that rhetoric

It's got to the point now where I'd hope the club are in dialogue with the FA about the sheer level of incompetence present in the officials they provide. That's 2 apologies issued before the game has even finished in the last month- that's simply unacceptable. Apologies from officials are uncommon as it is, to say sorry DURING the game implies it's a ridiculously blatant mistake... That should be 1 a season, not bi-monthly ffs. 

Ultimately the ineptitude of the officials is now repeatedly impacting the integrity of our games, that needs addressing. Couldn't care less whether it's a conspiracy or just incompetence, the outcome remains the same.

26 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said:

Got a feeling that as a young player we would have to pay compensation - something that we cannot do presently

I really hope the restrictions get lifted at the end of the season. I know they're due to be reviewed, and we must be operating fairly above our means currently. Leaving them in place would feel borderline vindictive if it stops us even picking up young players on free deals, especially since they were the reason our squad was decimated to such a massive extent.

Continually stopping us properly rebuilding just doesn't seem right at all.

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Knight 🤣

Whoops, forgot we actually have internationals in the squad after Saturday 😂 Suppose it'd have to be Smith there and White or Sibley into midfield then.

The more I think about it though, the more Knight and Roberts as wing-backs makes a lot of sense, especially as i'm not convinced Warne won't revert to a back 5 at the soonest possible opportunity

Slightly rogue XI to shake things up:

                                  Wildsmith

                   Chester    Cashin     Forsyth
    Knight                                                         Roberts
                  Smith           Bird       Hourihane

                          McGoldrick  Dobbin

Warne's preferred 5 at the back, but attacking wing-backs. We've rarely dominated in midfield in the second half of this season so maybe a 3 would help. Dobbin and Didzy with free roles to drift as neither are traditional 'play off the shoulder of the last man' strikers?

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

McGee, Roberts, White, Dobbin and Springett go back to their home clubs.

Roberts is out of contract at the end of the season, so good chance he could sign permanently- if we've been smart he'll have already signed a pre-agreement

Didzy looking dapper 

1 hour ago, Wolfie said:

I'm chuckling at the irony of how many people would have gladly taken back Chris Martin since he left us.

It's all very well when they're cheating FOR us.

Martin went down easily, but I don't remember much outright diving?

The incident I do remember, conversely, was him being fouled in the box and consequently getting sent off for simulation against Burnley... 

20 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's actually even worse than that - there are 2 versions that are currently used, one with 2 repetitions and one with 3, both of which are cut down and assembled from a much longer version (so both have jump-cuts in).  I think they pick one depending on how close to kick-off we are, so it will fit in before the whistle.  But because they want the big ending after the 3rd cycle, they skip the first cycle if they want a shorter version.  And because each repetition gets faster, you don't actually know what tempo it's going to change to when it does the horrible mis-timed jump-cut at the start.  So that's why it seems to be a different tempo each week.  

It also means that the majority of the crowd don't know whether the end of the 2nd cycle is the last one with the finale on, or they've got another go round before they do that.  So if they do the 3 version, you often get a half hearted finale after 2 as well.  The whole thing is just dreadfully done.  I certainly think the editing was done by someone that doesn't have a musical ear.

I'd be up for playing the full thing as I actually like the verses, but really just leave enough time prior to kick off and play the full chorus section and let the fans join in.

I wouldn't have any music prior to SBW, the audio is so loud currently it's hard to have a conversation with the person stood directly next to you. Given part of the charm of going to games is the social aspect, blaring music at the volumes we currently are seems detrimental to the overall atmosphere. The longer version of SBW would then allow fans to join in and build the atmosphere right before kick-off; rather than an ill-timed 30 second blast after some badly spliced-together pop songs...