YorkshireRam

3 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Can’t be doing with all the primary school playground name calling stuff myself. We’re all just adults who support different teams, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Yeah but ours is bigger than yours

4 minutes ago, JJH said:

Seems Roberts gets very mixed reviews from you lot.

As a LB in a back four or a CB in a back 3 I’d be happy with him. Wouldn’t be as a wing back.

 

He wants to play at centre half but we didn't see him enough there to properly judge. As a fullback/wingback he was industrious but lacked consistent end product. Doubt many disagree there's talent there, whether he fits well into our system and is therefore a good signing now is where the debate stems from. Remains to be seen as we mostly saw him in a back 4.

2 minutes ago, JJH said:

I’m relaxed about it to be fair mate, I’d like him to sign but if not I trust that we’ll have another one lined up. Roberts wasn’t first choice, we tried re-signing Joe Bryan, that hasn’t materialised so onto Roberts.

Feels like we’re run competently for the first time in years which is a credit to Pearson. Lansdown has no idea how to run a football club, he’s admitted on radio Pearson’s told him more than a few home truths. Lee Johnson was just a nodding dog.

On that note, Rob Dickie is an immense signing, one of the best bits of business i've seen so far

16 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

The glory days of Southamptons academy are a little while ago now when Les Reed was the academy director.

nonetheless, they do have a good reputation and did produce one David McGoldrick back in the day.....

ATM James Ward-Prowse and Luke Shaw are the most recognisable products, although Theo Walcott is still kicking around.

Should be a decent appointment nonetheless.

Gareth Bale?

1 hour ago, Scott129 said:

I find it hard to believe we weren't in for Roberts, personally.

But I agree with your overall sentiment.

I've had the same flighty feeling about it the last few days, especially since the McGoldrick news, but then I had to kind of rationalize with myself.

Our transfer policy has entirely changed now. New manager, new head of recruitment, and the first proper window in 3 years where the club can spend transfer fees- that's a lot of change, and involving new faces who need time to settle. No leaks as well means it feels very 'empty' right now compared to the swathes of rumours we're used to reading, I think this is where the panic is coming from:

Not signing who we're linked with -> not being linked with anyone else -> Panic!

Whereas I suspect the club is identifying targets carefully, not leaking them, and we simply haven't even heard about our #1 targets yet. The 'not hearing anything' bit is probably actually positive, but because we're not used to it, it feels negative. I'm waiting another month or so before I actually start judging anything. 

Just now, Scott129 said:

There have been 10 signings so far in League 1.

We have missed out on 3 players - one who wanted to play at a higher level, one who wanted to play for his hometown club, and one who we apparently weren't even interested in.

So no, nothing to worry about yet.

Please can we stop with this rhetoric, our own journalists close to the club are stating this is untrue. In fact, there's only McGoldrick who we know we had concrete interest in, the rest is unreliable online rumours...

Yes we ideally want to be doing business quickly, however, it's better to wait and get the right players than rush and get the wrong ones. Not until the window slams shut can we judge whether it's been a success or not. Let's not start panicking A DAY BEFORE THE WINDOW OPENS

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Only ever been a bit part player for Coventry in the Championship, registering just 3 assists (0 goals) in the last 3 seasons. Not great for a wing back. Only 3 assists in their L1 promotion season too, playing 32 games.

Other key stats per 90 mins (average over 3 seasons):
Tackles - 2.2 (73%)
Interceptions - 1.1
Blocks - 1.3
Shots - 0.4
Dribbles - 1.3 (48%)
Aerial battles won - 0.7 (42%)
Key passes - 0.7

To put it in to perspective, there isn't much difference between those stats and Sibley at LB. Sibley is much weaker in the air, but makes 3.2 successful tackles per 90 (76%).

Josh Key would be my number 1 target. He's weaker in the air but a stronger attacking output than any other RWB linked with us. Would cost a compensation fee though.
Mitch Clark would be a strong contender, if not for his likely ban due to betting. Toney recently got 8 months for 232 breaches. Clark placed 312 bets.
Sean Clare has been linked and is statistically very similar to Dabo, even with being in a division below.
One player who ticks a lot of key metrics but I haven't seen mention is Tom Hamer from Burton. One of the best defensive options at RWB, but doesn't dribble or shoot as often. However, he still surpasses the likes of Dabo with key passes. 23 but offered a deal by Burton so will cost compensation.

Good shout, I said last season we should be looking at him and Sam Hughes (CB), both look solid defensively, would fit our system, wouldn't cost too much, and wouldn't have to relocate...

15 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

My Notts County ST holder mate says: "Brilliant on his day, but inconsistent. His 'days' were further apart than ideally we wanted". 

Sounds like a Tom Lawrence replacement. 

I got something similar, although he commented today that Rodrigues could well improve playing in a better team. There's no way i'm not going to get excited signing the 'nutmeg king of Europe' though 😂

3 minutes ago, SK47 said:

Exactly how I'm looking at it. Roberts was loved by the fans, our ground Is 10 times better, I'd like to think our long term goal surpasses anything that Bristol can get close to, our facilities.. but something made him choose them over us. Was it really JUST championship football? If so, fair enough but I'm not sure.

I fear that we may lose players that PW planned/thought would stay and in return, doesn't have the resources to replace them in the capacity needed to be successful in the long run rather than just for getting out of this league.

I know it's a process that needs time to be criticised fairly, but sometimes if you look outside and you think it might rain, you take a coat... and I guess in this scenario, I've got my coat on 😅

I suspect Warne doesn't make false promises. He seems fairly straight up and given Roberts allegedly said he prefers playing at centre half and Warne likes tall CBs- is there a chance Warne told him as much as he'd like him at the club, he couldn't promise him being first choice in his favoured position and would play more at wingback?

That lack of assurance (which is just honesty) plus the allure of playing a division higher would be more than enough to tempt Roberts away.

Obviously speculation, but I just get the impression that Warne is very upfront about what is required from players under him. Hard work, dedication, and a lot of running- I don't think many of our singings over the last decade would fit this profile of player. It does make recruitment trickier because it detracts players looking for an easy 'big money' move but hopefully it means all our recruits fit our system really well. We'll see.

Looking at players released by Championship clubs, some realistic names that stand out: 
 

Nick Powell (29) - 4 goals in 26 apps last season, massively talented but attitude often questioned. Could be useful as one of the #10s in Warne's system

Daniel Sinani (26) - Looked very good for Hudds 21/22 but primarily as a winger. Good age and could work as a #10

Ryan Manning (26) - Solid Championship wingback, ideal for 5 at the back.

Wes Harding (26) - Knows Warne, good age, and perfect for RCB.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12691/12878368/transfer-news-summer-transfer-window-2023-championship-ins-and-outs

2 minutes ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

Anyone watch the West Ham game the other night?

The Brazilian no 10 beginning with 'P' (sorry) did not do very much except put the winner on a plate for Bowen.

Hourihane got in the league team of the year, playing a style that doesn't suit him, by making multiple scoring and assist interventions.

Wouldn't surprise me if a Championship team closer to where he lives comes knocking -  he'd deserve the move, improve their team and we'd miss him.

Quality player, who is under-appreciated because of a perceived lack of grunt.

Lucas Paqueta. I see your point but I think the criticism from Hourihane stems more from his role within the system; if we're playing a midfield 2 then those 2 need to be really dynamic. I think Hourihane is a good player who provided some moments of real quality, but his tendency to drift to the left and then not track back (less prevalent as the season went on), means I understand why some fans don't rate him as highly for us. 

1 minute ago, sage said:

Knight, Sibley and Bird were contracts when he had money to spend

I thought Sibley could have been on more than Knight... I know Jason broke through earlier but Sibley was given that contract off the back of the 4 goals in his first 2 starts, and scoring in the last game v Birmingham; wouldn't be beyond the realms they offered him a bumper deal to convince him to stay.

9 minutes ago, sage said:

Knight and Sibley, maybe Bird

Just had a quick look and a couple of places suggest it's Hourihane and Knight. I've heard £12k per week mentioned repeatedly for Hourihane ever since he signed, Knight was more of a surprise.

These sites are never fully accurate but this is very interesting, what stood out to me: https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-league-one/derby-county/

Didzy on £7.4k per week
NML on £4.9k per week 
Cashin on £3.3k per week 

That means given he signed on a free, but factor in a signing-on fee, and David McGoldrick cost the club less than half a million all-in for last season... some bargain that!

1 hour ago, Scott129 said:

I read in Leigh Curtis' Q+A last week that, while we did have the third highest wage bill in the league, apparently only two of the squad earned over £10K a week (excluding Bielik, of course).

It seems that a lot of players are probably on 7-9K, which is still very appealing for the league that we are in. And, of course, you'll have bonuses and stuff as well.

Hourihane and McGoldrick do we reckon?

12 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

But I like the Smiths for Marr's lovely melodies, Morrissey is just reciting lyrics from old black and white films.

or 'TFONWFOTAFTNTIaFCDCFCFCIITNATTTASC' for short 😂

14 minutes ago, JJH said:

McGoldrick is going to Notts I read?

Mental that they'd have him and Langstaff in L2, we're supposed to be in for Langstaff but will believe it when I see it with that one.

Who knows with Didzy, people have gone mental on twitter today based on rumours but that's hardly concrete. My gut says he will go back to Notts, but that also we shouldn't be reliant on a 35 year old and it may be best if we move on from him being first choice anyway.

We need a whole new defence and attack, very hard to predict how you're going fare when most of the starting XI is currently question marks 😂

2 minutes ago, JJH said:

You're right, that and the fact we can offer more money currently are the main ones I'd suggest aren't they.

I think we'll be playing a 4-3-3 but I've no idea, genuinely think our squad is now best suited to a 3-5-2 but I suppose we'll have to wait and find out what Pearson is thinking. 

You lot trusting Warne to get you back up? He's a bit of a L1 specialist isn't he so I'd fancy it, but from what I've seen of Rosenior at Hull I feel he'd have had a bit of a higher ceiling with you lot than Warne does? No idea what your lot's views on it are so may get completely shot down for that.

I think he'll be an ideal Pearson-style fullback: solid defensively but with the offensive qualities to advance play when needed. 

And we'll see, given all our departures our squad is going to look radically different from last season. With no players through the door yet it feels impossible to say. Hope so, but I'll probably be cautious. 

13 minutes ago, JJH said:

 

 

It is a done deal, he's been down and signed.

But anyway, we are trying to get promoted and we spent to try and get promoted across a number of years pre COVID, but the previous regime of idiots just did a poor job of it 😆

Wasn't trying to antagonise, just came on to find out if he was a decent signing. Seems he's a better CB than a LB which is a bit concerning as he seems to be signing because Joe Bryan now isn't. Oh well.

Good to know, cheers for the info.

And yeah neither was I, more stressing that being a league higher is a BIG incentive and you don't need much else to be able to tempt a player from us down here in the doldrums of League 1 😂 

I think he'll be a very competent fullback at Championship-level. Solid progressive dribbler and advances play well, bringing the ball from defence into midfield. As other have said, crossing was inconsistent but this could be rectified easily. I suspect he'd be best as a traditional LB- reckon you'll be playing a back 4 next season?

19 minutes ago, JJH said:

Roberts isn't joining us because we're offering him some daft deal whilst you're offering him a sensible one, there's a whole host of reason why we're a more attractive proposition than you lot currently. That's just how it is.

1. Roberts hasn't signed yet so I'd be careful wording it like it's a done deal.

2. It really isn't a ''whole host of reasons'', it will literally only be because you're in the league above... More security, far bigger crowds, and more familiarity VS playing a division higher. I honestly can't think of any other Plus in your column unless maybe you play a system that suits him really well?

4 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Put it this way

Your in a working environment and your manager is  having weekly one to ones about issues.  You get upset and open up about an issue.  Next day at the team meeting you boss says.  'Harvey called me last night and was in floods of tears about a mistake they made'.  That wouldn't be a kick and the b******* and ensure you clam up at all.

As you were.

That's still not evidence... You're basically saying ''I wouldn't have liked to be talked about, the way Warne talked about White''... but you're not everyone, and not everyone will agree. Harvey might have received an outpouring of support from his teammates off the back of the comment once they realised he was feeling bad... WE DON'T KNOW.

You can't just go off and say it's bad management when you don't have the slightest clue how it's affecting the players though!

Just now, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

True.  Which is exactly my point.

No, your point was that the way Warne publicly discusses players is causing damage. The burden of proof with a statement like that is on you, and you've provided precisely naff all to evidence that aspersion... Same goes with it negatively impacting our potential transfer business, I used the Clough comparison to show that could also be a wayward suggestion, yet you conveniently seemed to gloss over this...

You don't like Warne, essentially, and you're now catastrophising about all the damage you THINK he may cause, but stating it like fact. Until you provide substantiation it's just pessimistically negative opinion, that's all. 

16 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Have you seen a psychologist. It isn't that easy and it takes a long time to get to even see the right person.  I did it for 2 years.  There is absolutely no chance he knows what's going on in someone's head from a conversation once a week having meet them a few weeks before.  A pound shop psychologist who did a module as part of a Sports Science course is not a trained professional who can make such calls and anything private should be kept so regardless.  Bit like my 10 years semi pro footy and suddenly playing championship football.  I'd be ok tackling people but after 20 minutes I'd do something that made me look a t***.

Warne isn't his therapist 😂

He might have made the comment to show how much White cares- that he's not here just to maintain fitness but really cared about his involvement within the club during his stay. Who knows. What we do know is he knows those players and the psychology of the game better than any of us do- and because of that, benefit of the doubt is often, sensibly, awarded in his favour. 

And just to counteract the transfer point, Clough made some of our best signings in recent years AFTER he publicly came out and told Cywka to ''go back to wherever he came from'' which is undeniably worse than anything Warne has said... 

17 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Sure, a player or players can lose you a game, but the manager having a stinker and sending the wrong team out in the wrong setup can also lose you the game even at the level we find ourselves at right now.

It's a convenient line for a manager to say it's never tactics and always the players, but it simply isnt true.

I wasn't necessarily referring to team selection when I talk about 'tactics'- the discussion seemed to be about whether we had defined methods of play or not, so by 'tactics' I meant more the footballing system the given XI is expected to play within.

It's the balance between tactics and man management, as I previously mentioned, that is the key to success. Cocu's tactics on paper were brilliant, and led to huge success in the Eredivisie... but they didn't work here. So it's not one or the other, it's a mixture of the two. The OP was putting this big focus on the idea we're not drilled in executing very specific, established methods of play- when we saw with Cocu that can often have an adverse effect on overall team performances and results...

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

That's a formation though, not a game-plan.  "Attacking intent" isn't a game-plan either.  And neither is "moments of incisive passing and movement".  Like I said earlier in the thread, we did a load of different things at different times, some of it was good and some of it was bad, but there seemed to be no plan in place to maximise us doing the good stuff and minimise us doing the bad stuff.  And there seemed to be no overall idea of what we actually wanted to do attacking-wise, other than some vague notion of working hard and getting the ball forwards quickly. 

You pick out Knight and Roberts out wide, and that just sums the whole thing up to me.  Roberts is (AFAIK) a centre half converted to a left back, he's a good defender and he's a decent passer, but he's not a progressive, attacking wingback because he's not quick, he's not a great dribbler and he's not a great crosser.  Jason Knight is a really good box-to-box midfielder, he's good at pressing high up the pitch, running off the ball and getting into goal-scoring positions, he's not really a dribbler or a crosser.  If you play both of those players as wingbacks you're actively stopping them doing what they're really good at, and asking them to do stuff they're not good at.

There are similar issues with the front 3 and midfield.  NML and Sibley are both players that you want running with the ball, committing defenders.  McGoldrick needs balls into his feet and people running off him.  But with only 2 midfielders in behind them, we were regularly outnumbered in there, and struggled to control games and give that front 3 the service they needed.  We had moments where we managed to get the ball into them and they did well with it, but the rest of the team wasn't set up to make that happen on a regular basis.

Serious question - do you think Guardiola is standing up in front of his Man City team and saying "433 today lads, and show a bit of attacking intent".  Or is he figuring out how to get the ball to De Bruyne's feet as much as possible, how to get as many crosses on Haaland's head as possible, how to get Grealish/Mahrez/whoever into as many one-on-one situations against isolated defenders as he can?

By this logic, I assume you believe Cocu was our best manager of the last 20 years? Tactically what he was trying was far more advanced than anyone else- fluid positional rotation, utilising long periods of ball retention via slow build up to dominate games... how well overall did that work out for us?

It's a balance of finding a tactical setup that suits the players, whilst ensuring they're playing to their full individual potential through man management and psychology- Warne seems very big on the latter. Cocu underestimated the ability level of the squad and asked something unrealistic of them. Perhaps at this level, ensuring consistently solid individual performances goes further than trying to establish defined methods of play?

I love discussing tactics and football stats but with stuff like this I can't help come back to the Classic Clough quote: