Is this our worst Championship team since 08?

[Srg]

18 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I think that might be anti-Bris sentiment. He has a point in my view. As you might (perhaps 😂) be aware I am no fan of Warneball, but he has (in main part because of some poor buys last season) a very poor looking squad to work with as we sit here today. Going to be a tough job to stay up as matters stand, and if we don’t add much more quality then Warne is going to have to wring out every last drop of effort and team unity from his players, which I acknowledge is one of his core strengths.

In main part is due to no budget, not poor buys, considering we didn’t buy anyone last season. 

[i-Ram]

Just now, Srg said:

In main part is due to no budget, not poor buys, considering we didn’t buy anyone last season. 

Semantics at its best Srg. Well done. The players we picked up last season then, who we are contractually obliged to pay for at least another season.

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

You are, and I often value your opinion not all the time mind 😉. I don’t think I have ever seen what your opinion is on how you rate the current squad with the squads we have had in our previous 20 years in the Champ. Would you share with me how difficult a task Warne has this season working with the squad he currently has available. Is it a worse squad than Clough, Cocu or Rooney inherited?

I don't know, as we're only one game into the league season. Once the window closes and the squad has had time to build a rapport on and off the pitch, it'll be easier to offer an informed opinion. Until then, I'll keep my powder dry and at least try to remain vaguely positive.

[Srg]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

Semantics at its best Srg. Well done. The players we picked up last season then, who we are contractually obliged to pay for at least another season.

Who were chosen within the constraints of a crap budget, some of which was taken up by players signed by Rosenior.

Now we’ve come into this season with a supposed competitive budget, and I’ve yet to see any evidence that that is the case. We are barely paying transfer fees, we are barely paying loan fees and we definitely won’t be paying much in wages.

Now, I’m not advocating for getting in a mess again, but there’s no denying he’s been dealt an absolutely s**** hand.

And if you don’t think he has, that’s fine, that’s just another notch against your pre-determined Warne stance. Me? He might well prove not the guy, but I also don’t think anyone else would have got much through the door to make us look a lot better with the money we’ve used.

 

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

How is it clickbait? I’m merely asking a question in comparison to former squads.

If this question has already been asked, feel free to report to the mods and have the thread taken down.

 

No drama. I'll just accept that applying 'Worst Ever' titles to the squad is fine, but it's prohibited in terms of any content you or anyone else might produce.

Happy now? 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Probably you needn’t consider the quality of the opposition (bottom 5 let’s say) in those years also.

Sometimes teams stay up for being the least shlt (just ask Forest) in that year when on other years they would have been toast.

[Gladys_was_the_Greatest]

As @Srg says the main issue is budget. It was a different world then in terms of player cost and salaries. We were very lucky in Nigel Clough’s recruitment skills, he built a great squad on peanuts. It’s a real shame that there wasn’t a way for Clough and Mac to work together. If the chemistry might of worked then it would have been a great partnership. I feel like the shop window for players is sewn up. We obviously don’t have the buying power and players want to come to a success story. We are starting out on a long journey to be sustainable. Mr Clowes, who saved our club, probably against his better judgement, has spent his life building up a strong business. Yes he’s wealthy compared to us, but not against the wealth of many clubs in the Championship. Mel lost his money gambling against the odds. So is it the worst team? I don’t know, we haven’t seen much of it yet. Give it time, let’s add the loans, goalkeeper etc etc, give it a few weeks/ months and then we can answer that question. Derby nearly bankrupted itself after that season in premiership and it took five years to recover! 

[nottingram]

2 minutes ago, Srg said:

Who were chosen within the constraints of a crap budget, some of which was taken up by players signed by Rosenior.

Now we’ve come into this season with a supposed competitive budget, and I’ve yet to see any evidence that that is the case. We are barely paying transfer fees, we are barely paying loan fees and we definitely won’t be paying much in wages.

Now, I’m not advocating for getting in a mess again, but there’s no denying he’s been dealt an absolutely s**** hand.

And if you don’t think he has, that’s fine, that’s just another notch against your pre-determined Warne stance. Me? He might well prove not the guy, but I also don’t think anyone else would have got much through the door to make us look a lot better with the money we’ve used.

 

Forgive my ignorance but the original contract of every player signed by Rosenior, bar Barkhuizen’s +1 year clause, would now have expired so I struggle to see much relevance to this season?

[i-Ram]

4 minutes ago, Srg said:

Who were chosen within the constraints of a crap budget, some of which was taken up by players signed by Rosenior.

Now we’ve come into this season with a supposed competitive budget, and I’ve yet to see any evidence that that is the case. We are barely paying transfer fees, we are barely paying loan fees and we definitely won’t be paying much in wages.

Now, I’m not advocating for getting in a mess again, but there’s no denying he’s been dealt an absolutely s**** hand.

And if you don’t think he has, that’s fine, that’s just another notch against your pre-determined Warne stance. Me? He might well prove not the guy, but I also don’t think anyone else would have got much through the door to make us look a lot better with the money we’ve used.

But - referring to the highlighted section - neither I, or Bris as far as I can tell, are debating here with an anti-Warne agenda. That might be how you want to frame it, what is being asked and debated as far as I am concerned is how does our current squad look compared to squads in other difficult times we have had in the Championship over the last say 15 years? It doesn’t look good does it?

[KBB]

1 game.

[Ambitious]

It’s a valid question. It definitely is one of them, although I would probably take it over the team that was eventually relegated (in all honesty). The young players had no fear, but also not much guile either - Rosenior was a good coach and they had some leadership and talent. 

I would say: 10-11, 21-22 & 24-25 are the worst we’ve had in this division. I guess it shouldn’t be completely unexpected, but when you really lay it out - hard to make a case for it definitely not being our worst squad.

[Nuwtfly]

It’s an interesting question, @Bris Vegas

My immediate reaction, based purely on a player-by-player comparison, is that this squad is better than quite a few of Nigel’s sides at least. I don’t want to get into yet another debate on the qualities of the current manager.

However, don’t you think the biggest factor is the difference in the quality of the teams in the division?

Nigel Clough had to compete in the Championship. Paul Warne is having to compete in the Premier League B.

[Marriot Ram99]

Think it it is looking at the side it really lacks attacking quality . Thats why Warne is really hoping to bring a few in.

[Bris Vegas]

22 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

No drama. I'll just accept that applying 'Worst Ever' titles to the squad is fine, but it's prohibited in terms of any content you or anyone else might produce.

Happy now? 

I didn’t write worst ever.

I wrote worst since 08, so comparing this squad to the ones of the previous 16 years.

Seeing as we have enjoyed some pretty decent squads since 08, realistically we can only compare to:

The Nigel Clough early years

The Philip Cocu side which had the rug pulled under him

The side that ultimately got relegated

How do you think the current side stacks up against those? 

We may well strengthen in the next few weeks, but this current side IMO rivals the Cocu side for being seriously undercooked. 

I’d be inclined to just give Warne a free pass this season unless we make some serious additions. 

[nottingram]

Don’t think it’s really a surprise if it is. Never before have we been coming up from L1 so it figures that the squad would be worse.

The 20/21 team was awful but probably shouldn’t have been, don’t think it was a bad squad anyway.

But then I don’t really think it’s an awful squad now. 

[TomG]

The main question based on exactly 1 league game.....sometimes I despair!

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I didn’t write worst ever.

I wrote worst since 08, so comparing this squad to the ones of the previous 16 years.

Seeing as we have enjoyed some pretty decent squads since 08, realistically we can only compare to:

The Nigel Clough early years

The Philip Cocu side which had the rug pulled under him

The side that ultimately got relegated

How do you think the current side stacks up against those? 

We may well strengthen in the next few weeks, but this current side IMO rivals the Cocu side for being seriously undercooked. 

I’d be inclined to just give Warne a free pass this season unless we make some serious additions. 

Fair enough mate 👍

[Bris Vegas]

1 minute ago, TomG said:

The main question based on exactly 1 league game.....sometimes I despair!

It isn’t based on one league game though, is it?

I think a good number of supporters can look at the quality of our current players, how they’d fit into a best XI and make a solid judgement.

[dog]

We're subject to complexity theory (I reckon) and in its terms we need to look at gradual progress, like with Nigel Clough, as we don't have the money which would enable us to make 'game changing' external changes (like buying all the good players on football manager). Thus we need to build upon ongoing emergences as they occur.

The caveat is that such emergences need to be observed and then acted upon by leadership. That is the issue for me.

[IslandExile]

18 minutes ago, KBB said:

1 game.

 

5 minutes ago, TomG said:

The main question based on exactly 1 league game.....sometimes I despair!

As @Bris Vegas says it's not an assessment based on one game, it's an appraisal based on looking at the quality of players in the squad, comparing them with other clubs in the league.