Vs Middlesbrough (H) Match Thread

[old tray boy]

It was a real wake up call  Boro were really good to the point that there passing was at time sublime. We defended stubbornly and rode our luck it may not happen again all season but it highlighted the quality we are going to face week in week out in what is a very good league.

[Rich3478]

4 minutes ago, old tray boy said:

It was a real wake up call  Boro were really good to the point that there passing was at time sublime. We defended stubbornly and rode our luck it may not happen again all season but it highlighted the quality we are going to face week in week out in what is a very good league.

They were but don’t think they looked overly threatening. Hit the post via a deflection. Otherwise was no real heart in mouth moments.

agree their passing was good, was quite slick. Azaz looks a really good player.

I’d be surprised if they’re not top six this year so was a good result. Think a good performance too, played the situation well.

[Mick Brolly]

1 hour ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I can't accept that we 'tactically won' that game

Don’t then but don’t bang on about it all year 

[Alty_Ram]

23 minutes ago, ipad1977 said:

Your account of what yourself and your fellow fans have been through...

Thanks for your considered and balanced response - good to have a more thought provoking exchange than some of the 'banter' that we occasionally witness. Re your little history lesson, it's always good to know the background on these things as I have never been sure of the exact context of Boro's own struggles but was aware and that Gibson had been your white knight at the time.

I think that you identify much of the crux of the matter for us when it felt very strongly that the fans were put through the mill for things that are completely beyond their control. Football may for some top flight 'TV fans' be just something to distract you for 90 minutes but at our level and in our unfashionable corner of the East Midlands, it means a lot - no doubt you'd say the same of Boro.

DCFC is a huge part of the city and the looming demise of something so important to so many people was hugely worrying and the thought of losing the club entirely, frankly devastating for some. This forum became a bit of a self-help group at times and sadly, a very well-known and highly-regarded poster who felt the stresses of the situation most keenly, is no longer with us and never got to see us return to the Championship as he passed away before the club could bounce back.

I have never and will never join in any of the "We're all having a party when (insert club X) dies" bull****. I genuinely believe that most Derby fans feel the same way after what we've been through but as you also rightly say, there will always be a part of everyone's fan base who will take that route, just to get a rise.

[Comrade 86]

On 18/08/2024 at 13:54, Mick Brolly said:

Who said it was unacceptable to point it out just because other posters don’t necessarily agree with you doesn’t mean you have to start playing the victim 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, DCFC Kicks said:

There's 'a bit of luck' e.g. winning 2-1 in a 50/50 game. Then there's winning 1-0 with 27% possession while creating next to nothing all game. We would've been very lucky to only lose this game by one goal let alone win. I can't think of a luckier win in recent memory. I'll obviously take it. Its just annoying everyone on here saying it was sum sort of Warne masterstroke.

The way this thread has descended into a debate about luck and bad luck reminds me of the rather tiresome conversation about “deserved” we had a few months ago.

The facts are: We won 1:0 and picked up three points. Boro failed to score not because they were unlucky but simply because none of their attempts on goal were both on target and good enough to beat Vickers.

I find it annoying that some people seem to putting the result purely down to luck and giving little or no credit to the solid defending and tactics adopted by PW.

[Mick Brolly]

7 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

The way this thread has descended into a debate about luck and bad luck reminds me of the rather tiresome conversation about “deserved” we had a few months ago.

The facts are: We won 1:0 and picked up three points. Boro failed to score not because they were unlucky but simply because none of their attempts on goal were both on target and good enough to beat Vickers.

I find it annoying that some people seem to putting the result purely down to luck and giving little or no credit to the solid defending and tactics adopted by PW.

A well deserved win 😁

[VulcanRam]

18 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

The way this thread has descended into a debate about luck and bad luck reminds me of the rather tiresome conversation about “deserved” we had a few months ago.

The facts are: We won 1:0 and picked up three points. Boro failed to score not because they were unlucky but simply because none of their attempts on goal were both on target and good enough to beat Vickers.

I find it annoying that some people seem to putting the result purely down to luck and giving little or no credit to the solid defending and tactics adopted by PW.

Or the exceptionally hard work and determination by the players to concentrate, focus fully, stay 100% switched on and see it out.

[NottsRam]

1 hour ago, old tray boy said:

It was a real wake up call  Boro were really good to the point that there passing was at time sublime. We defended stubbornly and rode our luck it may not happen again all season but it highlighted the quality we are going to face week in week out in what is a very good league.

Not a wake up call at all imo.  I think the players, management and fans are all well aware of what we are up against this season, the step up in class and budgets is a big one and we will have to be at our best to survive.  If that means sometimes having to surrender possession even at home and try to grind out points, so be it.  If we can survive this season and continue to build it will be a great acheivement.

[jono]

2 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I can't accept that we 'tactically won' that game. It can't be a tactic to just assume Boro won't take their chances. 

I first listened to the game on BBC Radio Tees before rewatching it. The commentators were shocked at how little football we were playing, comparing us to a Rugby Union side kicking into touch. 

Not the game I saw. We won the game. Tactically we recognised their superior ball play and athleticism. With that knowledge we set up in a specific way to do our best to counter their strengths. That was to absorb pressure and defend as a unit. Probably the only way a weaker team can tactically match an opponent. We matched them in that sense and got a breakaways goal .. Lucky ? Perhaps. But the tactics were spot on 
 

Yes they failed to take their chances, perhaps they were unlucky. That doesn’t alter the validity of our tactical approach which worked. They besieged us but didn’t cut us to bits; we kept up our pre designed defensive wall. Even when they hit the post it was a shot that was deflected off a block that may have been covered by the keeper. We did kick to touch towards the end as we ran out of energy but we had enough.

They put it in the net from an offside position and had 2 other offside chances that the Lino didn’t give but they didn’t score those either. I suggest it would have been unlucky on us if they had. 

If we didn’t tactically win the game, then how did we ? .. was it just one breakaway ? How come with all the player advantages and 90 minutes they didn’t break us ? . Is that ALL down to their luck or just maybe tactics working. ? It wasn’t last ditch desperate, there was a lot of hard work, team play and tactics going on.
 

Lastly, we might have played more football if Collins hadn’t been mauled repeatedly to see the offences ignored/missed by ref.

[DCFC Kicks]

30 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Has it ever dawned on you that some posters reaction in supporting Warne after Saturday is a response to your endless criticism of him, some of which is occasionally justified but most of the time gives the impression of being just a personal vendetta. 

I highly doubt I have that much influence on people 😆. I just give my honest opinion of how I see it. Isn't that what a fans forum is meant for? 

[DCFC Kicks]

3 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

In part it was Paul Warne’s tactics - Middlesbrough's strength is in playing counter attacking football, which depends on drawing your opponent as far upfield as you can and breaking into the gaps which that creates. So Paul got us sitting back, sitting deep so the Smoggies couldn’t then hit us on the break because we were sat there waiting for them.

I respect your opinion but in my view I don't think that was Warnes intention. I hope it wasn't anyway because it was only through Boros poor finishing it worked. It was just the classic case of a team retreating because they're struggling to play. 

[Crewton]

I've seen countless teams play exactly the same way at PP and come away with all the points or a 0-0. If we can frustrate clearly superior teams and win unexpected points, home or away, I'm going to celebrate it regardless of how much good fortune anyone thinks we've had. The first task this season is to make relegation a long-shot as quickly as possible.

[ram59]

Whilst I would question some of the ref's decisions, he made 2 calls, one at the end of each half that were sympathetic to us.

Just before HT their wide player clearly, from our view in the lower east stand, handled the ball, but both the ref and the lino's views were blocked. Our defender then fouled the wide player giving away a free kick, the ref saw the immediate reaction of the Derby fans and guessed what had happened and as soon as the free kick was struck towards our goal, he blew for HT.

Likewise, I don't see where he could add on extra time over the 5 minutes nor give them their last minute free kick, but when the ball went out for a corner, he blew for full time, rarely do refs blow for full time when the ball goes out for a corner.

If he was really feeling vindictive towards us, he needn't have ended both halves when he did.

As a side note, I think that the shot was going just wide before it flicked off the top of Bradley's toe, then hitting the post, rather than pushing it away from Vickers.

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, DE56Ram said:

It wasn’t entirely a gift of a goal.

A bloke that sits behind me is a lower league manager and said as I was peeling myself off the PP roof, I like to see a quick lad left a bit up the pitch at opposition corners.
Another shrewd positional ploy from our excellent manager! 

I'm actually surprised at how rapid Kayden really is. We all know that in full stride, Nate has afterburners, but I'm pretty certain Kayden would dust Nate, especially over a 30M split. In rugby parlance, the lad's got some serious wheels 🤯

Edited August 19 by Comrade 86
dyslexic digits

[Anag Ram]

2 minutes ago, ram59 said:

Whilst I would question some of the ref's decisions, he made 2 calls, one at the end of each half that were sympathetic to us.

Just before HT their wide player clearly, from our view in the lower east stand, handled the ball, but both the ref and the lino's views were blocked. Our defender then fouled the wide player giving away a free kick, the ref saw the immediate reaction of the Derby fans and guessed what had happened and as soon as the free kick was struck towards our goal, he blew for HT.

Likewise, I don't see where he could add on extra time over the 5 minutes nor give them their last minute free kick, but when the ball went out for a corner, he blew for full time, rarely do refs blow for full time when the ball goes out for a corner.

If he was really feeling vindictive towards us, he needn't have ended both halves when he did.

As a side note, I think that the shot was going just wide before it flicked off the top of Bradley's toe, then hitting the post, rather than pushing it away from Vickers.

At the end of the first half, the Middlesbrough player wanted attention but the ref told him he was blowing up anyway.

[DCFC Kicks]

2 hours ago, MadAmster said:

So, once forced into replacing Cash and Kane with more defensively minded defenders in Nyambe and Bradley, he got the message to the team to change the original game plan which is why we dropped back 5 or so yards and the players all understood the job they were being asked to do and how to do it effectively. That's luck?

 

2 hours ago, MadAmster said:

Outplayed from the 25th minute. Once we rejigged the game plan, yes, they had 70% possession, yes they had territorial advantage. However, the Rams were well organised, well drilled and, apart from that offside header, restricted Boro to taking pot shots from 25 yards out, a massive 4 of which were on target. Luck or excellent defensive play? Most would say the latter.

Cash and Kane going off doesn't naturally dictate that we park the bus. It was still a choice. He could've brought on Ward instead of Nyambe as well. If it was all Warnes plan to park the bus how do explain the 5/10min spell at the start of the second half where we played more positive. Wasn't that his real plan.

I've never known any manager that would willingly allow the opposition to have 72% possession. The only reason they didn't score is because they couldn't find the final pass. Yes it was dogged defending from us, but if one team has all the ball then the outcome of the game is dictated by what they do with it. 

[jono]

35 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I highly doubt I have that much influence on people 😆. I just give my honest opinion of how I see it. Isn't that what a fans forum is meant for? 

Hey we are disagreeing at the moment. That said, I am always up for a discussion and exchange of views. Having a view and constructing an argument that validates it is enjoyable. I don’t want a self congratulatory echo chamber.

It is exactly what the forum is for. 

(I am right though,  always ! …. until Mrs Jono says I’m not 🤣)

[Tyler Durden]

6 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I've never known any manager that would willingly allow the opposition to have 72% possession. The only reason they didn't score is because they couldn't find the final pass. Yes it was dogged defending from us, but if one team has all the ball then the outcome of the game is dictated by what they do with it. 

You forgot that quickly not so long along before Warne, we used to shuffle the ball crab like along our defensive line then all the way back to the same side again rinse and repeat to no effect whatsoever other than having possession for possessions sake?

[DCFC Kicks]

2 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Really, The manager picks the players, The manager sets the players up to attack, The player gets fouled, The player scores from the free kick...yep nowt to do with the manager or the players.

But I do have to say...Brentford got all the luck and they never even touched the ball🙋‍♂️

 

But a refs bad decision isn't influenced by how a team in performing. Derby's win was only lucky based on how the played. If we'd dominated like Boro did it would've been impossible for us to be lucky because we'd either be unlucky and not win or win and be deserving of it.