Vs Middlesbrough (H) Match Thread

[Mick Brolly]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I feel so entitled. 😄

So no answer then you obviously just like to moan for no reason 

[Crewton]

Luck-schmuck....Boro didn't create many more big chances than we did and had a completion rate of ZERO. Vickers' saves were solid, but none would be classed as "difficult". Boro were ultimately just huff and puff.

[MACKWORTHRAM]

Stats are like bikini's.

What they show is interesting.

But what they don't show is even more interesting.

[ram59]

We hearing about all the ifs, buts and maybes of the Boro game and we were lucky. But think back to last week against Blackburn and the luck could have gone our way. Their first goal was a scruffy ball across that bobbled through a challenge between their forward and Nelson, before breaking nicely for their player right in front of goal, it could have easily bobbled in any other direction and not resulted in a goal. We were inches from the ball going over the line direct from a corner and even the keeper had some luck with the follow up. Their second goal also resulted from a coming together of a player from each side and the ball falling right at the feet of another blackburn player in space which led to the goal.

Their third and fourth goals were a result of us chasing the game. But football can be about riding your luck at times and the last two games have shown this.

[MadAmster]

I watched a game yesterday that wasn't unlike our game v Boro. Major difference was that the home side didn't have to replace 2 defenders in the opening 25 minutes. The home side got promoted last season and this was their 2nd game of the season against a well established side in the league.

Home side stats first:

Possession 25% - 75%

Shots 6 - 16

Shots on target 3 - 5

Corners 1 - 8

Score? NAC Breda 2 Ajax 1

 

[nottingram]

6 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Luck-schmuck....Boro didn't create many more big chances than we did and had a completion rate of ZERO. Vickers' saves were solid, but none would be classed as "difficult". Boro were ultimately just huff and puff.

xG of 1.55 over 20 shots sums it up really. On average each of their shots had roughly 7.8% chance of going in. Ironically I would imagine Hackney’s effort from about 35 yards was the lowest of those and yet caused Vickers the most strife.

For all their huff and puff we clearly had the best chance of the game which was scored, and Osborn’s follow up from the corner was probably top 3.

[brady1993]

3 hours ago, DE56Ram said:

I haven’t watched the match yet, but am prepared to spend the next 20 minutes of my life commenting on this football club. . . Blah, blah, blah 😕 

Originally I typed out something more hostile but on reflection I'm guessing your reaction is in part because you see me as needlessly ragging on the club despite the win or I'm coming across as just another negative voice.

And you know what maybe it wasn't the place for the point I was trying to make. I tried to make it clear that what I was saying wasn't about the game at all and was responding more generally around points made of short term/long term goals.

I have not watched the game because I've not had time. I did however have 10 minutes to flick through the forum and post something that I thought would add something to a tangential topic.

[Ghost of Clough]

42 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Admin saw the Academy gutted. 22/23 saw appalling results at U18 and U21 levels. 23/24 saw both improve, the 18s rather more so than the 21s. Hopefully we'll see saleable assets from the Academy in a couple of years. That won't happen overnight. Zetterstrom and Goudmijn are players whose value might go up. Boro have been building for several years. It will take us that amount of time to get to that position.

The damage during admin is always overdtated. During admin, only Williams (already in the first team), Ryan, Eze (potentially homesick), and Kellyman left us. Plange as well if you want to be picky, but he was in the first team when we sold him anyway.

Festy, Ebiowei, and Buchanan (all first team regulars) left us at the expiry ig their contracts as a result of us not being able to tie them down to longer contracts during admin.

Given all but two of those players would have been in our first team or sold on if we didn't go into admin, and the trajectory of the other two players, I see no net difference to our U21 squad at this point in time.

There was a short term gap in the U21s due to so many being fast tracked to the first team (Ebiowei, Plange, Cashin, LThompson, Williams), and a couple of other may have been retained to plug a gap (McDonald, Wilson). However, the life of a U21 player should be a maximum of 2 years (IMO) - therefore covering the admin season and first season in L1. Which goes back to my previous point - there is now no net difference to our U21 squad.

[Alty_Ram]

14 hours ago, ipad1977 said:

As said previously I don't try to involve myself in politics, chairmen and all that gubbins that comes hand in hand with football. Obviously I encounter plenty of fans of other sides so am aware of issues that affect them, but focus on the football being played, it's after all why I love the game. As far as I'm aware Gibson rightly or wrongly felt cheated so took his grievance further. He's someone who is anal about following financial rules so feels aggrieved if he misses out to those that bend them?

I don't know if he wanted to bury your club per se, but was most likely seeking some kind of recompense for possiby missing out on the playoffs. Do I think it was taken too far? Quite possibly, though in a strange twist of fate you may actually be better off moving forward with Mel gone as a result.

I wasn't at the match today as had to work down in Devonport (such is life) so wasn't aware of any chants that had been made tbh. I don't think I'd celebrate any club going under, even Newcastle or Sunderland, despite our feelings towards them. There will always be elements of a club's support that embrace gallows humour, the chants about Jimmy Saville towards Leeds fans being a case in point, but they're seldom indicative of a club's entire fan base.

Do I think the recent hoo-hah was used as an extra-motivation towards your side in the game's build up? Again, it's possible, coaches will often try and seek an angle for such things, but that's not why I feared facing your lot today. Its more the case that we were always more likely to lose such a game, it's what we do. While nothing is set in stone, I was as confident of that happening and the result being in your favour no matter how much we dominated the game, as confident as I am of us turning the likes of Burnley and Luton over, or as confident as I am of your getting a result at the Riverside against us too for that matter.

It's just the way things go.

We will obviously see things very differently but though I disagree with your assessment, you have at least tried to engage on this very touchy subject, so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt to try and help you understand our perspective.

When you are on the sharp end of near oblivion as a club, the fans will feel everything very keenly so you will appreciate that this one is still very raw. We are completely aware of the role Morris played and his reign at the club was ultimately an utter disaster, regardless of what good intentions he may have had at the outset.

I can't say either way what Gibson's specific intent was but it appeared utterly spiteful. From a Derby fans perspective he seemed so consumed with his feud with Morris that he was seemingly happy to see us cease to exist while he tried to 'teach a lesson' to someone who had already abandoned ship and left us to the circling sharks.

The club was saddled with massive unsustainable debt and lets be quiet clear, fans at this end know exactly where to point the finger of blame for that. Morris' tenure at the club was ultimately an utter disaster and he threw us under a bus with administration.

The source of much of the resentment re Gibson was that his feud with Morris seemed to only further endanger our club and its chances of survival at a time when Morris had said "See ya, I'm off, sort it it our yourselves". The term 'Survival' is not overstating the case - we were dead in the water and nobody wanted to buy a club worth nothing for the sort of money required to save it. Last orders had rung, the fat lady had already sung, the gangplank was almost up and the ship was ready to sail, the cupboard was bare, the administrators were switching the lights off and nobody credible was stepping forward to save the club. Even the chancers and charlatans had disappeared despite the EFL waving them all through.

The fact remains that we were as close to oblivion as any club who has ever survived such a spectacular financial meltdown, has ever found itself. Thanks to Morris, the club had massive crippling debt of course, but also a perfect storm of zero assets due to Morris' shenanigans with taking the stadium away from the club  and an academy that had been plundered of any assets of value and a first team that we could not offer any contract to to provide even a nominal residual value to give saleable assets to set against debt when vultures came to pick the carcass clean of the final few scraps.

As the drowning form of DCFC, flailed away trying to get to the harbour wall, Gibson and Couhig made an already unviable deal even less attractive but keeping this threat of some highly debatable but considerable imagined debt owed to their clubs and in effect wanted to charge any concerned good citizen who wanted to save the drowning man millions of pounds just to use the life ring. Everyone just walked on by and DCFC slipped beneath the waves.

We were only saved by a local hero who at the 11th hour just refused to let the club die and payed frankly absurd money for something that was worth nothing. None of us will ever know what deals were done behind closed doors with Gibson, Couhig, Morris and others but other clubs chairmen were conscious, deliberate players in holding a dying club to ransom when the villain of the peace had already walked away and left others to clean up the carnage.

Football is an emotional business and I'd expect that you'd also resent a 3rd party who appeared to be an active and enthusiastic participant in massively complicating a rescue of your club if god forbid you ever find yourselves in similar circumstance. I know that you lot have been on the brink before and I think the short memories and gloating from some of your fans was what was so disappointing.

[DE56Ram]

1 hour ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Not point replying with a sensible answer and facts  , this poster and a few others have no intention of listening or changing their narrative. Easier to stick on ignore and enjoy the win and forum. 

I’m fairly new here even if I’ve been supporting my Rams passionately for 54 years 💪🏼🐏

how do I put the negative non-supporters on ignore? 

[Will Hughes Hair]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The damage during admin is always overdtated. During admin, only Williams (already in the first team), Ryan, Eze (potentially homesick), and Kellyman left us. Plange as well if you want to be picky, but he was in the first team when we sold him anyway.

Festy, Ebiowei, and Buchanan (all first team regulars) left us at the expiry ig their contracts as a result of us not being able to tie them down to longer contracts during admin.

Given all but two of those players would have been in our first team or sold on if we didn't go into admin, and the trajectory of the other two players, I see no net difference to our U21 squad at this point in time.

There was a short term gap in the U21s due to so many being fast tracked to the first team (Ebiowei, Plange, Cashin, LThompson, Williams), and a couple of other may have been retained to plug a gap (McDonald, Wilson). However, the life of a U21 player should be a maximum of 2 years (IMO) - therefore covering the admin season and first season in L1. Which goes back to my previous point - there is now no net difference to our U21 squad.

So losing 5 u21s and another 3 from the age group already in the first team wasn’t a big deal?

My mind is boggled.

[DE56Ram]

15 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Originally I typed out something more hostile but on reflection I'm guessing your reaction is in part because you see me as needlessly ragging on the club despite the win or I'm coming across as just another negative voice.

And you know what maybe it wasn't the place for the point I was trying to make. I tried to make it clear that what I was saying wasn't about the game at all and was responding more generally around points made of short term/long term goals.

I have not watched the game because I've not had time. I did however have 10 minutes to flick through the forum and post something that I thought would add something to a tangential topic.

“I originally typed out something more hostile”

hostile to Derby County?

hostile to Derby fans?

hostile to manager or staff?

only a hostile non-Derby fan would feel hostile to my great club and its fan base! 😕

[Birdyabroad]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The damage during admin is always overdtated. During admin, only Williams (already in the first team), Ryan, Eze (potentially homesick), and Kellyman left us. Plange as well if you want to be picky, but he was in the first team when we sold him anyway.

Festy, Ebiowei, and Buchanan (all first team regulars) left us at the expiry ig their contracts as a result of us not being able to tie them down to longer contracts during admin.

Given all but two of those players would have been in our first team or sold on if we didn't go into admin, and the trajectory of the other two players, I see no net difference to our U21 squad at this point in time.

There was a short term gap in the U21s due to so many being fast tracked to the first team (Ebiowei, Plange, Cashin, LThompson, Williams), and a couple of other may have been retained to plug a gap (McDonald, Wilson). However, the life of a U21 player should be a maximum of 2 years (IMO) - therefore covering the admin season and first season in L1. Which goes back to my previous point - there is now no net difference to our U21 squad.

Interesting, but you are forgetting a major point. During this time we wasn’t in a position to bring in players to the academy, certainly ‘top tier’ youth players that wouldn’t have come to a team in admin, with uncertainty over the future of the academy.

You are only referring to the players that we had in the books, what about the players we would have missed out on?

You could, quite rightly, argue that this is an ‘unknown, unknown’, but look at the youth players we have attracted to the academy this year, I.e., the two youth international Irish lads and the player from Celtic’s academy.

I think the effect that administration has on the U21’s and U18’s is not overstated and that we are in a rebuild, hopefully a promising one.

[Mick Brolly]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

I feel so entitled. 😄

Come on Roy I’ve asked you a genuine question at the moment you’re just making me think you’re just a moaning wum 

[hydraulic ram]

 May I briefly interrupt the "discussions" by saying that I sincerely hope that 'boro fail to get in the play offs this season by a single point.

Thank you for your patience.

 

[Will Hughes Hair]

5 minutes ago, DE56Ram said:

“I originally typed out something more hostile”

hostile to Derby County?

hostile to Derby fans?

hostile to manager or staff?

only a hostile non-Derby fan would feel hostile to my great club and its fan base! 😕

Some of us were happy clappers and cheerleaders for Mel back in the day. Myself included probably. Dissenting voices were shut down then.

I wouldn’t say that was healthy then or healthy now. And for my money @brady1993 is a long way away from a wum and is as much a ‘valid’ Derby supporter as the rest of us.

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

So losing 5 u21s and another 3 from the age group already in the first team wasn’t a big deal?

My mind is boggled.

It seems like you haven't read what I posted - the difference between our U21 squad now and if admin didn't happen at all is non-existant. Only Eze and Ryan would be part of that squad - Eze released by Norwich and now with Bolton B, Ryan released by Brighton and now at Coventry U21s.

Our first team obviously woupd have been stronger, but our academy sides are no worse off now.

[Foreveram]

6 minutes ago, hydraulic ram said:

 May I briefly interrupt the "discussions" by saying that I sincerely hope that 'boro fail to get in the play offs this season by a single point.

Thank you for your patience.

 

Bottom three would be better.

[Gabby'sThighs]

I don't know what the complainers want really. Middlesbrough are a better team, more expensive players, much bigger wage bill. They were expecting a 5-0 defeat and we got a 1-0 win...

As for tactics, I doubt we'll play that way against the likes of Plymouth, Millwall, Cardiff, etc. Yes, we didn't outplay Boro but adjusting to your opponent, or stopping them doing what they want to, is tactics, isn't it?

Derby battled hard and made life difficult for Boro, who were reduced to speculative long shots for the most part. They battered Leeds. Yes, we got lucky with a stray backpass but Jackson still had to sprint 70 yards and keep a cool head. Yes, we got lucky with their shot hitting the post, but I'm sure we'll concede an 'unlucky' goal soon enough. The team/squad performance was fantastic, and the result was extremely unexpected.

Three years into a 5-year plan - if we keep putting in performances like that, I think we'll do enough to stay up, and then we'll see what year 4 brings. I keep reminding myself that 56 points was fairly comfortable safety for Stoke & QPR last season - 15 wins, 11 draws, 20 defeats. We need another 14 wins, and the draws will come. So will the defeats, of course!

I hope Cash is okay. I got concussed earlier this year and I wasn't right for 2-3 weeks afterwards.

 

[Crewton]

29 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

We will obviously see things very differently but though I disagree with your assessment, you have at least tried to engage on this very touchy subject, so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt to try and help you understand our perspective.

When you are on the sharp end of near oblivion as a club, the fans will feel everything very keenly so you will appreciate that this one is still very raw. We are completely aware of the role Morris played and his reign at the club was ultimately an utter disaster, regardless of what good intentions he may have had at the outset.

I can't say either way what Gibson's specific intent was but it appeared utterly spiteful. From a Derby fans perspective he seemed so consumed with his feud with Morris that he was seemingly happy to see us cease to exist while he tried to 'teach a lesson' to someone who had already abandoned ship and left us to the circling sharks.

The club was saddled with massive unsustainable debt and lets be quiet clear, fans at this end know exactly where to point the finger of blame for that. Morris' tenure at the club was ultimately an utter disaster and he threw us under a bus with administration.

The source of much of the resentment re Gibson was that his feud with Morris seemed to only further endanger our club and its chances of survival at a time when Morris had said "See ya, I'm off, sort it it our yourselves". The term 'Survival' is not overstating the case - we were dead in the water and nobody wanted to buy a club worth nothing for the sort of money required to save it. Last orders had rung, the fat lady had already sung, the gangplank was almost up and the ship was ready to sail, the cupboard was bare, the administrators were switching the lights off and nobody credible was stepping forward to save the club. Even the chancers and charlatans had disappeared despite the EFL waving them all through.

The fact remains that we were as close to oblivion as any club who has ever survived such a spectacular financial meltdown, has ever found itself. Thanks to Morris, the club had massive crippling debt of course, but also a perfect storm of zero assets due to Morris' shenanigans with taking the stadium away from the club  and an academy that had been plundered of any assets of value and a first team that we could not offer any contract to to provide even a nominal residual value to give saleable assets to set against debt when vultures came to pick the carcass clean of the final few scraps.

As the drowning form of DCFC, flailed away trying to get to the harbour wall, Gibson and Couhig made an already unviable deal even less attractive but keeping this threat of some highly debatable but considerable imagined debt owed to their clubs and in effect wanted to charge any concerned good citizen who wanted to save the drowning man millions of pounds just to use the life ring. Everyone just walked on by and DCFC slipped beneath the waves.

We were only saved by a local hero who at the 11th hour just refused to let the club die and payed frankly absurd money for something that was worth nothing. None of us will ever know what deals were done behind closed doors with Gibson, Couhig, Morris and others but other clubs chairmen were conscious, deliberate players in holding a dying club to ransom when the villain of the peace had already walked away and left others to clean up the carnage.

Football is an emotional business and I'd expect that you'd also resent a 3rd party who appeared to be an active and enthusiastic participant in massively complicating a rescue of your club if god forbid you ever find yourselves in similar circumstance. I know that you lot have been on the brink before and I think the short memories and gloating from some of your fans was what was so disappointing.

A brilliant summary.