UEFA Euro 2024 Thread

[DarkFruitsRam7]

This is a worth a read

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/30/england-keep-the-faith-and-fate-smiles-on-gareth-southgate

Edited Monday at 04:29 by DarkFruitsRam7

[FlyBritishMidland]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

More perspective

1968 to 2016 is 48 years, 25 tournaments

2018 to 2024 is 6 years, 4 tournaments

Fair points.  And in some of those years we didn’t qualify.  But the flip side is, qualification is much easier now, far more countries and easier groups.  And when you get to the tournaments, they are far bigger with more countries, hence more knock-out rounds with the first of those being pretty straightforward if you win your group.  The ‘82 World Cup had 2 group stages, with the knockout starting in the semi-final.

And he has the most talented bunch of players we’ve had for a long time and is now benefitting from the academy system.  And unlike at their clubs, he stifles them.

I like him as a man, I just think he’s not quite brave enough.  He needs to trust the players and give them some freedom.  We entered as favourites, give them the freedom to play like favourites.  Have more flexibility in the game to change things when needed.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Fair points.  And in some of those years we didn’t qualify.  But the flip side is, qualification is much easier now, far more countries and easier groups.  And when you get to the tournaments, they are far bigger with more countries, hence more knock-out rounds with the first of those being pretty straightforward if you win your group.  The ‘82 World Cup had 2 group stages, with the knockout starting in the semi-final.

And he has the most talented bunch of players we’ve had for a long time and is now benefitting from the academy system.  And unlike at their clubs, he stifles them.

I like him as a man, I just think he’s not quite brave enough.  He needs to trust the players and give them some freedom.  We entered as favourites, give them the freedom to play like favourites.  Have more flexibility in the game to change things when needed.

You could also argue that other nations have progressed at a much better rate than us, with many of the 'lesser' nations having teams made up of players from across the top divisions.

Still not sure this team is as good as people say, with quite a few starters from outside of the top 6.

I have no doubt that Southgate will be gone no matter what after this, in a lot of ways he has been a victim of his own 'success'. After years of underperformed he galvanised the country leading to the entitled fans once again thinking we should be winning every game and every tournament. 

I get the criticisms though and have no problem in admitting that performances currently aren't good enough. Can't help think that some of this is down to the players though because, for some reason, I think the usual squad unity doesn't seem to be there.

 

[TomTom92]

6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

 Bloody hell, don't try and deflect criticism away from Southgate, you'll be lynched. 

These players are world class but apparently aren't capable of putting in World class performances unless Southgate tells them how. 

Got it?

You’re clearly a very positive fan and that’s good for you.

You’ve even admitted the performances haven’t been great. If you was the manager and saw that level of performance would you keep picking the same team? 
 
The players haven’t really shown any accountability so I’ll give you that one. I’m finding there comments post match equally as infuriating as Southgate’s tactics. They’re like politicians refusing to admit what’s in front of them.

For all Warne’s faults I do find his over sharing usually refreshing.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

This is a worth a read

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/30/england-keep-the-faith-and-fate-smiles-on-gareth-southgate

I did think last night, I wonder how close social media must have come to actual meltdown, there must have been so many fingers hovering over 'send' when that goal went in.

[G STAR RAM]

31 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

You’re clearly a very positive fan and that’s good for you.

You’ve even admitted the performances haven’t been great. If you was the manager and saw that level of performance would you keep picking the same team? 
 
The players haven’t really shown any accountability so I’ll give you that one. I’m finding there comments post match equally as infuriating as Southgate’s tactics. They’re like politicians refusing to admit what’s in front of them.

For all Warne’s faults I do find his over sharing usually refreshing.

If I said performances haven't been great, I was vastly understating how bad they have been, they have been very very poor.

But this is tournament football, there are no prizes for pretty passing, you either go through or you go home.

I agree with what Neville says about our current performance levels not being good enough to get us through a month of tournament football, I believe another performance like the first 4 and we are on our way home next Saturday.

There were rumours of discontent about the omission of Grealish, with a senior member of the squad questioning Southgate about it. At that point, you know the squad unity has gone because basically they are saying that one of the players in the group isn't good enough to be there.

6 days to try and get things right for next week. 

I'd be mixing it up if I was Southgate and the first thing I'd do is ban the media from every training session. 

[angieram]

2 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

This is a worth a read

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/30/england-keep-the-faith-and-fate-smiles-on-gareth-southgate

I exercise that faith of unconditional support for Derby. I give them my full backing because it's who I am and because I see the effort and ups and downs of each and every one of those players over a long, hard season.

England, I don't feel a lot of loyalty to them. I don't know the individuals and only see fleeting glances of their genius week in, week out on highlights shows, exacerbated by the hyperbole of pundits. As such, I am presented with their absolute genius at a world level and therefore do expect them to do better when collected together for England.

If it was a stroke of genius to bring on Ivan Toney, why wait until the 93rd minute to do so? And we moan about Warne for late subs! 

[Premier ram]

We can pick the bones out of performances, tactics, who should and shouldn’t play till the cows come home , the only thing that matters at the moment is we are in a quarter final again under Gareth’s management, onto Saturday and Switzerland , yes a very tough game , yes a lot of soul searching , but I still believe England can do this , come on Jude and the boys bring football home

 

                

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I think Southgate’s a good leader and builds a good team spirit without any cliques.  I do think he’s too rigid tactically.  The current players are amongst the best in the world and I think he’s stifling them.  I also think he’s trying to shoehorn both Foden and Bellingham into the team in the same way Sven did with Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes.  He needs to go with one.

John Stones quote..."maybe now we can take the brake off" Southgate asked about this quote and he skirted round some what without answering the question.

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:23 by Ram-Alf

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Results wise, Southgate is doing his job. Performance wise it's atrocious. He got his pants fully pulled down tactically in the first half yesterday and we only applied real pressure when Slovakia opted to sit in and when he took Foden off which helped balance us out (far too late).

There is a clear imbalance in the squad as he sets it up and he doesn't seem to know how to fix it. He was bemoaning the lack of a replacement for Kelvin Phillips recently, all that says to me is that Southgate is too tactically unimaginative to figure out a solution. He's got the players, he's just not got the managerial ability to adapt to them.

As for the players, they aren't helping Southgate. The system they are playing isn't ideal, but they are executing poorly on top of it which just compounds the issue.

We have scraped through so far, but we haven't played anyone decent yet. The Swiss looked lively against Italy, and lively is not what we are right now.

[Crewton]

27 minutes ago, angieram said:

If it was a stroke of genius to bring on Ivan Toney, why wait until the 93rd minute to do so? And we moan about Warne for late subs! 

I thought Southgate should have brought Toney, and possibly Watkins also, on with half an hour to go. The trouble is, I thought Kane looked shot and was the one who should be replaced for Toney. If he'd done that, perhaps we wouldn't have needed added time but, if we did, then Kane wouldn't have been in place to convert Toney's flick on.

It's all conjecture after the event but it's what keeps us glued to football, isn't it?

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

Watching that match reminded me of a film. So I had to go off and watch it straight away.

Mike Bassett: England manager.

it made a great double bill. In that they scrape through a group with a bore draw and luckily the other results go for them. And there’s a whole bunch of similarities to fan and press reactions. It was eerily familiar.

am I right in saying we were a bit rubbish in the groups in 66. But no one remembers that. We shouldn’t even have won the final, but for a Russian linesman, but we try hard not to mention that.

1966 games to the final

Group...Uruguay0:0 (0:0)

Group...Mexico2:0 (1:0)

Group...France2:0 (1:0)

Quarter-final...Argentina1:0 (0:0)

Semi-final...Portugal2:1 (1:0)

Final Germany4:2...(1:1, 2:2) aet

As for the movie...you're spot on, We flatter to deceive and have done since that day in 1966.

England expects...  😉

Edited Monday at 07:42 by Ram-Alf

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Results wise, Southgate is doing his job. Performance wise it's atrocious. He got his pants fully pulled down tactically in the first half yesterday and we only applied real pressure when Slovakia opted to sit in and when he took Foden off which helped balance us out (far too late).

There is a clear imbalance in the squad as he sets it up and he doesn't seem to know how to fix it. He was bemoaning the lack of a replacement for Kelvin Phillips recently, all that says to me is that Southgate is too tactically unimaginative to figure out a solution. He's got the players, he's just not got the managerial ability to adapt to them.

As for the players, they aren't helping Southgate. The system they are playing isn't ideal, but they are executing poorly on top of it which just compounds the issue.

We have scraped through so far, but we haven't played anyone decent yet. The Swiss looked lively against Italy, and lively is not what we are right now.

The only way the system he's using works is if we are playing a very high line and passing with tempo in the opponent's half. We haven't really done that at any point.

Because we are so deep and our front 4 all want the ball to feet, that's dragging the entire team deeper which is so easy for opponents to squeeze on because there's zero threat they're going to be turned round.

Add to this that we have Foden on the left who doesn't want to be there and drifts centrally and Trippier at left back who also struggles to keep wide and turns it inside on his right foot constantly, and we've ended up with a narrow shape, playing deeply and slowly to boot. 

Now all Southgate has done is tinker with the second midfielder, and whilst Trent was never going to be the answer, and Gallagher isn't good enough, so he finally got it right with Mainoo (I'd like to see Wharton at some point, but still), that position isn't the deciding factor of why this whole set up isn't working.

We simply have to find a way to keep width and stretch teams, or at least threaten in behind. How you do that is up for debate, you could drop Foden and play Gordon, you could switch to wing backs and stick Saka LWB if you wanted to, you could play a striker with Kane. Plenty of alternatives... but Southgate hasn't tried any of them until it was throw attackers at the wall time yesterday. Concerning that these problems have been there since the Iceland friendly, then it was the exact same in every group game and he still kept it for the knockouts. He has to change it.

[Ram-Alf]

42 minutes ago, angieram said:

I exercise that faith of unconditional support for Derby. I give them my full backing because it's who I am and because I see the effort and ups and downs of each and every one of those players over a long, hard season.

England, I don't feel a lot of loyalty to them. I don't know the individuals and only see fleeting glances of their genius week in, week out on highlights shows, exacerbated by the hyperbole of pundits. As such, I am presented with their absolute genius at a world level and therefore do expect them to do better when collected together for England.

If it was a stroke of genius to bring on Ivan Toney, why wait until the 93rd minute to do so? And we moan about Warne for late subs! 

[therealhantsram]

9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

His 7 knockout wins have been Colombia, Sweden, Ukraine, Germany (H), Denmark (H), Senegal and Slovakia.

This is where perspective needs put in place before we start lauding Southgate something he isn’t.

There isn’t a single game there that we shouldn’t have won given our squad and the opponents.

 

Sorry, that doesn't wash. His predecessors wins were Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Spain (H), Denmark and Ecuador.

The point is that his predecessors, either couldn't get England qualified for a tournament, or couldn't get them out of the group stages.  Southgate has done that consistently.

[Srg]

58 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

I'd be mixing it up if I was Southgate and the first thing I'd do is ban the media from every training session. 

Disagree with this massively. We can say what we want about Southgate tactically... such as was it good management keeping Kane and Bellingham on rather than substituting them allowing us to save the game, or was it poor management in his selection getting us in this position to begin with? 

But for me, Southgate the bloke was exactly what England needed at the right time. The way he's handled the media and included them since Russia has been a big part in the credit he earned. The breath of fresh air from that tournament was palpable. Changing that now would be hitting the panic button. He changed everything on that front during a dark period of international football, going back to that wouldn't be good.

[Grumpy Git]

If he starts pn Saturday with Tripper on the left again, Southgate really does need shooting.

Hopefully Trippier won't be fit.

[G STAR RAM]

40 minutes ago, Srg said:

Disagree with this massively. We can say what we want about Southgate tactically... such as was it good management keeping Kane and Bellingham on rather than substituting them allowing us to save the game, or was it poor management in his selection getting us in this position to begin with? 

But for me, Southgate the bloke was exactly what England needed at the right time. The way he's handled the media and included them since Russia has been a big part in the credit he earned. The breath of fresh air from that tournament was palpable. Changing that now would be hitting the panic button. He changed everything on that front during a dark period of international football, going back to that wouldn't be good.

And the media repay him by leaking our team to the opposition days in advance.

 

[Srg]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

And the media repay him by leaking our team to the opposition days in advance.

 

That happened before and after. Pushing them out won't change that.

[StaffsRam]

Against Switzerland I'd go:           

                                              Pickford

                    Trent         Konsa          Stones          Walker

                                      Rice             Bellingham

                                               Foden

                           Palmer                                Gordon

                                                Kane

Konsa cos Guehi's suspended.