Retained List

[Jourdan]

27 minutes ago, sage said:

I wonder what Mr Clough would say about that.

GK hasn't seemed like a high priority position this season, but they are far more likely to be tested next season.

It all depends on who we can get in. If we can get someone significantly better but they cost £6k more a week, then so be it. 

The same Clough who built his Derby side around a trusted core that progressed together and the same Clough who then took some of those same trusted players to Leeds and Forest?

I don’t dispute he will be tested more. You could make the same argument for the entire squad, mind you. Even our player of the year could be replaced by that logic.

The reality is that we need a starting point to build a competitive squad and logically our most consistent and best performing players - Wildsmith, Cashin, Nelson, NML, Collins - should (and hopefully will) be the foundations of that. Most promoted teams that do well have a high performing core group that they stick with and put their faith behind.

Warne would be brave, bordering on crazy, to deviate from that, especially given the importance he places on team chemistry, team spirit and the psychology of the group.

Do we really want to rip up the squad and have to wait weeks and months for it to gel? Surely we want to make important tweaks that give us a boost but maintain a sense of continuity?

[Ram1988]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

The same Clough who built his Derby side around a trusted core that progressed together and the same Clough who then took some of those same trusted players to Leeds and Forest?

I don’t dispute he will be tested more. You could make the same argument for the entire squad, mind you. Even our player of the year could be replaced by that logic.

The reality is that we need a starting point to build a competitive squad and logically our most consistent and best performing players - Wildsmith, Cashin, Nelson, NML, Collins - should (and hopefully will) be the foundations of that. Most promoted teams that do well have a high performing core group that they stick with and put their faith behind.

Warne would be brave, bordering on crazy, to deviate from that, especially given the importance he places on team chemistry, team spirit and the psychology of the group.

Do we really want to rip up the squad and have to wait weeks and months for it to gel? Surely we want to make important tweaks that give us a boost but maintain a sense of continuity?

100% we need to add to and upgrade the sqaud not rip it to bits. Half of Ipswichs team is still the team which got them promoted to Championship which may then take them to the Premiership 

[Grimbeard]

On 01/05/2024 at 20:13, Zag zig said:

Listening to the interview @SamUltraRam put up, can’t believe nobody would not want Collins in the squad.

I genuinely don't know what this means.

[Grimbeard]

Welease:

Wodger

Woderwick

Bwian

[Gerry Daly]

Perhaps we will know this coming week, I imagine the retained list will be published. Clubs have started releasing theirs 

[LeedsCityRam]

I would agree with those who feel the majority of this squad needs to be retained into next season. The biggest mistake promoted teams can make is to destroy the fabric of the side that has achieved success - quality of course needs to be added but the DNA/character of the dressing room is not easily built, its that intangible that can drag out vital results & I feel will be necessary for a tough upcoming season. I also believe Warne will need a big squad to compete given the physical demands he places on players. With that in mind;

Release

Waghorn, Hourihane. I also would not offer John-Jules a contract

1 year deals

Forsyth, Korey Smith, Barkhuizen, Gayle, Collins

2 year deals

Wildsmith, Sibley, Thompson

I've noticed many would release Forsyth, Gayle & Smith but I would retain all 3. Firstly, Forsyth is an extremely useful utility player & makeshift CB - he is not easily replaced at all. I saw enough of Dwight Gayle to realise that he still retains plenty of quality & movement and the way he meshed with Mendez-Laing & Barkhuizen gave me confidence he could be a gamechanger still at Championship level. Given we're likely to be playing on the counter attack against better quality opposition, Gayle seems ideally suited to how we'd be looking to play. Lastly, we have a massive hole in midfield with Bird, Adams & likely Hourihane leaving - Korey Smith is a steady option to keep some continuity there, the lad can play & of course has significant Championship experience.

Keeping this squad would enable us to target resources at the 4/5 quality players we need to improve the overall standard of the first team without wasting time looking for squad depth because we'll already have it. Primary focus for me will be for first team starters down the spine of our team - in central midfield (enforcer & conductor), two centre forwards & one centre half. 

Evolution not revolution.

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

Release 

Waggy, Connor, Gayle (offer pay as you play). Same to Fozz

1yr to all over 30

2yr to Tommo, Wildsmith, Sibs 

1+1 Robinson

 

[IlsonDerby]

The ‘Spine’ to carry us through to next season: 

Wildsmith, Nelson, Cash, Nyambe Ebou 🤞, NML, Collins. 
 

Think as long as we can keep this spine (even if Collins isn’t a regular starter) then we have the base that took us up this year and improvements on other players could be the difference. 

[Simmo’s left foot]

I would add Elder, Wilson, CBT and hopefully Thompson and Sibley to that spine also.

[Gerry Daly]

We need to be releasing all of these mid 30's players who are out of contract and replacing them with better, younger ones. In terms of the people on short term deals, Waggy is finished --with us anyway Gayle was a short term gamble to try and give us something for the run in. he needs to be seen as such and let go. I know he has some quality but he's past it. We need younger players. John Jules was a gamble that didn't pay off. Only fools make the same mistake twice, let him go.  Just new contracts for Thompson, Sibley and Wildsmith. Try and move some of the poor signings on as well who are still under contract, Elder, Bradley, Fornah, Washington. None of them are good enough to be regular starters in the Championship    

[Carl Sagan]

1 hour ago, Gerry Daly said:

We need to be releasing all of these mid 30's players who are out of contract and replacing them with better, younger ones. In terms of the people on short term deals, Waggy is finished --with us anyway Gayle was a short term gamble to try and give us something for the run in. he needs to be seen as such and let go. I know he has some quality but he's past it. We need younger players. John Jules was a gamble that didn't pay off. Only fools make the same mistake twice, let him go.  Just new contracts for Thompson, Sibley and Wildsmith. Try and move some of the poor signings on as well who are still under contract, Elder, Bradley, Fornah, Washington. None of them are good enough to be regular starters in the Championship    

Agree with much of this. But I think Collins has proved his worth and deserves a contract and will contribute, albeit probably not spectacularly. Great if we can move any/all of those four under contract players "Elder, Bradley, Fornah, Washington" on, but it will be tough and that shows why it's important not to be too hasty when dishing out new contracts.

[DCFC1388]

Warne has confirmed this will be released this upcoming week

[Gerry Daly]

11 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Agree with much of this. But I think Collins has proved his worth and deserves a contract and will contribute, albeit probably not spectacularly. Great if we can move any/all of those four under contract players "Elder, Bradley, Fornah, Washington" on, but it will be tough and that shows why it's important not to be too hasty when dishing out new contracts.

Yeah I wondered about Collins. But the hard work and honesty makes him an effective Div 3 player. But that's as far as it goes, he's very very ordinary technically you must agree. And he's 33. We need to move on. He will be on good wages, money that can be used for a younger player. Collins is known quantity and going downhill. Lets take a punt on some players who can improve

[Caerphilly Ram]

39 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Yeah I wondered about Collins. But the hard work and honesty makes him an effective Div 3 player. But that's as far as it goes, he's very very ordinary technically you must agree. And he's 33. We need to move on. He will be on good wages, money that can be used for a younger player. Collins is known quantity and going downhill. Lets take a punt on some players who can improve

Why must people agree? I’ve seen enough of him the last 2 seasons to say he’s got pretty good technique, his heading technique is good, his penalty technique is good, a number of his goals show very good technique with both feet and his mid-riff, here’s a selection of them from this season;

I agree we would benefit from a younger option in the squad but the discredit levelled at Collins never makes sense to me. If we had Collins as a central striker supported by capable players out wide and a creative 10/8 behind him he’d still score plenty. He’s scored the number of goals he has in his career (215 in senior club football) because of his technique, it’s more likely to be his lack of pace and athleticism that’s stopped him succeeding at a higher level (and caused him to often be caught offside).
I always think it’s possible to say we need new signings without being completely dismissive of our current players and their contributions.

[Gerry Daly]

Well fair enough old cheese but my opinion is he makes the absolute utmost of his ability by prodigious hard work. He's done a great job for us no doubt about it but we have to move on, there is no room for sentiment. I don't know how old you are but remember when Arthur Cox sold Bobby Davison? I was heartbroken at the time but Arthur didn't think he was good enough for the first division. Sentiment would have seen us keep Bobby - and he was a far better player than Collins by the way - but we needed to improve and we needed the money to help do that. We will see what Warne does next week

[Caerphilly Ram]

51 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Well fair enough old cheese but my opinion is he makes the absolute utmost of his ability by prodigious hard work. He's done a great job for us no doubt about it but we have to move on, there is no room for sentiment. I don't know how old you are but remember when Arthur Cox sold Bobby Davison? I was heartbroken at the time but Arthur didn't think he was good enough for the first division. Sentiment would have seen us keep Bobby - and he was a far better player than Collins by the way - but we needed to improve and we needed the money to help do that. We will see what Warne does next week

You’re right in that it’ll be Warne’s call. My stance on it is partly driven by sentiment as I think he’s better than some credit, but it’s also logical (to me anyway) to keep some continuity in the squad. Collins is seemingly a very good pro, played a high number of games, scored a high number of goals, trains well and plays hard. He’d continue setting the standards in the squad and would complement a couple of younger options as one of our forwards next season. Probably wouldn’t want him as the main choice, but would I want him coming on against tired defenders with 20 mins to go either looking for a winner or putting in a shift to defend a lead? Yeah I would. Would I want him sharing his experience of playing the striking role with a young and exciting talent like Dajaune Brown? Yeah I would. 
Hypothetically what would your stance be if it was McGoldrick and not Collins we were discussing? 

[IlsonDerby]

4 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

We need to be releasing all of these mid 30's players who are out of contract and replacing them with better, younger ones. In terms of the people on short term deals, Waggy is finished --with us anyway Gayle was a short term gamble to try and give us something for the run in. he needs to be seen as such and let go. I know he has some quality but he's past it. We need younger players. John Jules was a gamble that didn't pay off. Only fools make the same mistake twice, let him go.  Just new contracts for Thompson, Sibley and Wildsmith. Try and move some of the poor signings on as well who are still under contract, Elder, Bradley, Fornah, Washington. None of them are good enough to be regular starters in the Championship    

I’d like us to invite TJJ to spend pre season with us. If he can get through the rigours of a Paul Warne pre season then perhaps a low risk, high incentive contract offer for him? He’s certainly a talent. Head and shoulders above most of our squad in terms of technical ability. 

2 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

Yeah I wondered about Collins. But the hard work and honesty makes him an effective Div 3 player. But that's as far as it goes, he's very very ordinary technically you must agree. And he's 33. We need to move on. He will be on good wages, money that can be used for a younger player. Collins is known quantity and going downhill. Lets take a punt on some players who can improve

If we could get in 2 solid options for the striker positions I wouldn’t mind (in fact I would quite like) Collins being a squad option. State of him without a top on in vegas he’s got to be looking after himself so well. Blokes got more Abs than them other side of A52 have got fingers. 
 

He’ll work his nackers off and can clearly find the back of the net. Well worth a place in the 23. 

 

Edited May 4 by IlsonDerby

[Gerry Daly]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

You’re right in that it’ll be Warne’s call. My stance on it is partly driven by sentiment as I think he’s better than some credit, but it’s also logical (to me anyway) to keep some continuity in the squad. Collins is seemingly a very good pro, played a high number of games, scored a high number of goals, trains well and plays hard. He’d continue setting the standards in the squad and would complement a couple of younger options as one of our forwards next season. Probably wouldn’t want him as the main choice, but would I want him coming on against tired defenders with 20 mins to go either looking for a winner or putting in a shift to defend a lead? Yeah I would. Would I want him sharing his experience of playing the striking role with a young and exciting talent like Dajaune Brown? Yeah I would. 
Hypothetically what would your stance be if it was McGoldrick and not Collins we were discussing? 

My stance would be the same as it was. Didzy was 36 or something and it was time to let him go. I'm not sure he's had that great a season at Notts has he? Anyway, OK in the terms you describe, Collins as a squad player with some younger, better first choice players(not Brown yet) then I don't disagree entirely. But it depends on budget

Edited May 4 by Gerry Daly

[Ram1988]

Collins has been our best CF this season, not only for his work rate, his goals but for also being the man who has stayed fit. I think we need to look for another CF as well but surely its a no brainer to offer Collins another contract.

Let's upgrade not rip the team to bits.

TJJ I'd give a contract to but only it's performance or appearance related for the next season or two.

[mike93rh]

On 30/04/2024 at 07:35, Srg said:

Elder still has a year left. 

And I'd still release him