Paul Warne

[Archied]

15 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

In the comment I initially replied to you said that some people are only concerned with being right, have a look at some of the posts in here tonight deriding anyone that's been negative over the last few weeks and tell me with a straight face that they aren't delighted to be proven right (even though it's to early to see which way things will go).

It absolutely does go both ways.

The thing that I’ve tried to argue for over a period of time is that there is not just one way to play football that’s enjoyable to watch and can bring success, we didn’t turn onto a possession based side yesterday we did what warne wants his sides doing but we did it very well and by god it’s a good watch and a great day out , perhaps some may adjust a bit after yesterday’s showing ,perhaps not 🤷🏻‍♂️

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, jono said:

I don’t want anyone banned, I am fine with outrageous underserved comments on the forum and am equally fine when people react to them. When they do get reacted to though, they need to take it on the chin instead of suggesting they have been picked on or bullied or shouted down.  You reap what you sow. 

The problem is that a good amount of reasonable people have been reaping what a tiny number of unreasonable people sowed.

The reaction has been widely disproportionate with even the mildest criticisms often treated the same as personal insults. Even some positive posts points / posts made about Warne have been jumped on for not being positive enough, not giving enough credit etc.

The mentality on here amongst a growing number of poeple seems to be that Warne's critics - on any level - are to be used as sport. Identified, caught and presented as if it were a trophy hunt. Every positive result and every signing used against an unspecified number of 'them'. Accusations like yesterday that people's weekend had been ruined by our best performance in 2 years - it's truly horrible stuff.

Criticism of a manager is part and parcel of football forums though. It's only on here and only under Warne that I've ever got the impression of a manager's reputation being sacrosanct.

People most definitely have been shouted down, that's simply undeniable when you have the forum owner (drunkenly or not) creating topics pleading for blind faith and promoting the idea that the forum should become an echo chamber.

Edited September 1 by May Contain Nuts

[FlyBritishMidland]

This might be a bit controversial, but I think PW is more tactically astute than some give him credit for.  I get the frustrations with the football over the last couple of seasons.  Personally, it’s not bothered me but everyone’s got their own view.

I think, based on experience, he knew that would get us out of L1.  I also think that, also based on experience, he knows it won’t keep us in the Championship.  At Rotherham, he made the best of what he’d got.  He’s now at a club with more resources to get the players to suit a style that can keep us up.  There’s no way the he’d have been able to attract or afford players like Phillips, Ozoh, JWZ, etc to Rotherham.  He’s talked in pre-season about needing to be more technical in the Championship.  He’s been able to better footballers in to allow us to play better football.  And he’s adapting the playing style more to suit the opposition.

I had my doubts if he could do it at this level, but 4 games in I’m starting to think he can.  Other than Blackburn we’ve been in all the games, and a bit more luck we could have had a point last week.

[davenportram]

He was right to wait for Zetterstrom, first time in years I’ve been confident that it’ll take something special to beat our keeper.

Not worried at all when the balls at his feet, he nearly always put the ball in an area where we could win it or compete for it.

 

 

[jono]

35 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

The problem is that a good amount of reasonable people have been reaping what a tiny number of unreasonable people sowed.

The reaction has been widely disproportionate with even the mildest criticisms often treated the same as personal insults. Even some positive posts points / posts made about Warne have been jumped on for not being positive enough, not giving enough credit etc.

The mentality on here amongst a growing number of poeple seems to be that Warne's critics - on any level - are to be used as sport. Identified, caught and presented as if it were a trophy hunt. Every positive result and every signing used against an unspecified number of 'them'. Accusations like yesterday that people's weekend had been ruined by our best performance in 2 years - it's truly horrible stuff.

Criticism of a manager is part and parcel of football forums though. It's only on here and only under Warne that I've ever got the impression of a manager's reputation being sacrosanct.

People most definitely have been shouted down, that's simply undeniable when you have the forum owner (drunkenly or not) creating topics pleading for blind faith and promoting the idea that the forum should become an echo chamber.

Interesting view but one I just don’t agree with. Nothing wrong with criticising the manager or wanting our style to be a certain way but those posters who you feel have been shouted down  still keep posting with the same “blind faith” in their view and some couple it with doses of character assassination, mis truths and denials. They don’t engage in debate. Yet, They are still free to post so they haven’t been shouted down have they. They have simply been taken to task by others. That doesn’t happen in an echo chamber.
We have numerous debates with many differing views as to how best use NML or 352 or Bradley or desired recruitment. This isn’t an echo chamber without dissent or disagreements. It is a community though, and in it are some purveyors of rank toxicity .. fine, there is a place for them, but if you are objectionable then expect objections. Even a pro Warne like me doesn’t think he’s sacrosanct. If he gets it wrong I’ll say so .. I think he did at Blackburn. Tried to toe to toe it before the players found their feet. I think Barrow was more down to the players but he didn’t have a half time team talk to change our mindset and tactics. Watford ? Gave it a go, not bad. Yesterday ? Top job. Thing about criticism surely, is that it needs to be honest, fair and reasonable. Those trophy posters don’t care about those subtleties, they are inflexible and dogmatic .. so if they feel victimised. Hard luck !

[Wignall12]

56 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

The problem is that a good amount of reasonable people have been reaping what a tiny number of unreasonable people sowed.

The reaction has been widely disproportionate with even the mildest criticisms often treated the same as personal insults. Even some positive posts points / posts made about Warne have been jumped on for not being positive enough, not giving enough credit etc.

The mentality on here amongst a growing number of poeple seems to be that Warne's critics - on any level - are to be used as sport. Identified, caught and presented as if it were a trophy hunt. Every positive result and every signing used against an unspecified number of 'them'. Accusations like yesterday that people's weekend had been ruined by our best performance in 2 years - it's truly horrible stuff.

Criticism of a manager is part and parcel of football forums though. It's only on here and only under Warne that I've ever got the impression of a manager's reputation being sacrosanct.

People most definitely have been shouted down, that's simply undeniable when you have the forum owner (drunkenly or not) creating topics pleading for blind faith and promoting the idea that the forum should become an echo chamber.

Perhaps we should all just agree to play nicely ?

[Archied]

4 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

I think the annoying thing is the lack of reasonableness. I could name them but won't but four possibly five consistently negative posters still haven't appeared to say well done to the team and Warne for yesterday's excellent result. Sorry but that smacks of putting opinion above supporting the Rams. I have no time for them.

Careful,, could be a bit like saying beetle juice 

[Spender]

7 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

This might be a bit controversial, but I think PW is more tactically astute than some give him credit for.  I get the frustrations with the football over the last couple of seasons.  Personally, it’s not bothered me but everyone’s got their own view.

I think, based on experience, he knew that would get us out of L1.  I also think that, also based on experience, he knows it won’t keep us in the Championship.  At Rotherham, he made the best of what he’d got.  He’s now at a club with more resources to get the players to suit a style that can keep us up.  There’s no way the he’d have been able to attract or afford players like Phillips, Ozoh, JWZ, etc to Rotherham.  He’s talked in pre-season about needing to be more technical in the Championship.  He’s been able to better footballers in to allow us to play better football.  And he’s adapting the playing style more to suit the opposition.

I had my doubts if he could do it at this level, but 4 games in I’m starting to think he can.  Other than Blackburn we’ve been in all the games, and a bit more luck we could have had a point last week.

That's not at all controversial for me. It's exactly how it is and was when he came to the club. There was just one major question mark hanging over him; when he got us back to the Championship, with a budget and support bigger by a country mile than what he'd had at Rotherham, could he establish us here and continue to improve us? He's on that stage now and in the opening act he's given us a  glimmer of hope that he just may have the required tools in his box to deliver just that and positively quash the biggest doubt that the fanbase, not unreasonably, had about him.

Some will still demand that they want to see open and attractive football that is exciting and pleasant on the eye. Wouldn't we all? But the reality of that is that in the last 25 years we have only witnessed occasional relatively short periods like that; under George Burley, Mac 1 and Frank Lampard who had something else in common - they all ultimately failed to to deliver the upward progression we yearned for.

Paul Warne's teams don't play the beautiful game but what I have to say is, that along with a few disappointing days, we've seen quite a few exciting ones this past 23 months and for me yesterday, against a decent and relatively costly Championship side, was up there with the best. I don't fear any team in this league coming to Pride Park to face our team and fans; let the opposition be fearful. We won't win them all and there'll be a few bumps along the way but for me it feels pretty good to be be a Derby fan just now. Except for 15 minutes at Blackburn, we've matched our opposition all of whom were in the top half of the table this time yesterday. May it continue.

COYR 

[Archied]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Some people need somewhere to vent their thoughts and frustrations - this forum being the only place they may have.

However, they'll still be there on matchday shouting Paul Warne's barmy army and clapping every bit of play.

That’s a nice thought but I’m not sure that’s entirely true , at best it’s a guess

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Srg said:

Turns out passing for passing sake when you’re not Man City is a bit meh. 

Yep , just look at Burnley last season and Southampton so far this one , just committing suicide and giving themselves a mountain to climb to even get a draw out of games 

[May Contain Nuts]

28 minutes ago, jono said:

Interesting view but one I just don’t agree with. Nothing wrong with criticising the manager or wanting our style to be a certain way but those posters who you feel have been shouted down  still keep posting with the same “blind faith” in their view and some couple it with doses of character assassination, mis truths and denials. They don’t engage in debate. Yet, They are still free to post so they haven’t been shouted down have they. They have simply been taken to task by others. That doesn’t happen in an echo chamber.
We have numerous debates with many differing views as to how best use NML or 352 or Bradley or desired recruitment. This isn’t an echo chamber without dissent or disagreements. It is a community though, and in it are some purveyors of rank toxicity .. fine, there is a place for them, but if you are objectionable then expect objections. Even a pro Warne like me doesn’t think he’s sacrosanct. If he gets it wrong I’ll say so .. I think he did at Blackburn. Tried to toe to toe it before the players found their feet. I think Barrow was more down to the players but he didn’t have a half time team talk to change our mindset and tactics. Watford ? Gave it a go, not bad. Yesterday ? Top job. Thing about criticism surely, is that it needs to be honest, fair and reasonable. Those trophy posters don’t care about those subtleties, they are inflexible and dogmatic .. so if they feel victimised. Hard luck !

A post which either dismisses, ignores or is in denial about what mine was actually saying, preferring to go on another little rant where less than a handful of posters are used to stain the views of a wider subset.

People have 100% been shouted down - just because it hasn't been successful doesn't mean the effort to do so wasn't there.

You can say there's nothing wrong with criticising the manager, but the reaction when people do - even those who've made fair comment - says otherwise. It's an attitude that prevades the very air of this place. No other manager has been given this level of protection.

 

edited down because a) I'm off out shopping and can't be bothered to get into a wider argument and b) the 'cut content' would have been dragging the post down to the same level as the one's I'm thinking of.

Edited September 1 by May Contain Nuts

[The Running Man]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Thanks for the reply.

I am not going to defend the 10 posters here, they can do it themselves, but there is nothing in my view wrong with the words, the thought process, or the reactions, from the 10 revealed. It’s an online forum, and it’s unlikely you or I know any of them. They could all very well be long term, dyed in the wool, Rams fans, who were simply frustrated at the time seeing us play shapeless football, and concerned regarding the path of travel Paul Warne was taking us on. Nothing wrong with having that as an opinion.

Yes pretty annoying that there is one poster you identify who only comes on here when we lose, and you are right to then question their motivations. Hence really why I asked you to name posters, because I tire of the glib “they’ are not true fans argument where supporters are grouped rather than specifically named for their non-100% allegiance to the badge.

It is perfectly fine to be a Derby supporter and not like Warne’s football. It doesn’t make you any the less a supporter of the club or team. There was no one probably more anti-Morris here than me during 2016-21 and I got challenged an awful lot about not being behind the club. 

FWIW I like the fact that this place is not an echo chamber, where we all pledge an oath to be 100% positive about the club, team, manager, etc. It would be dead boring otherwise. One of my favourite posters, because he/she always makes me smile is @one_chop  Another poster you only see when we are losing, but it is part of the match day tradition for me to see him come on and say ‘FFS’ or some other pithy negative comment. Makes me laugh, rather than give me a touch of the vapours.

Anyway, what a great result yesterday, and it seems a very good performance. Didn’t see it coming personally, but I was encouraged by Friday’s two signings, and that you could see we might become more competitive with those players added to the team. I still have my doubts about Warne’s abilities, but hopefully he proves me wrong this season - although I have consistently said he might keep us up through strength of personality and group mentality. More good performances, and decent football, will reduce the vociferous anti-Warners you and a few others on this thread seem to dislike but hopefully they don’t go away. There is plenty of room on here for us all to find our preferred space.

Well in my opinion, there is absolutely something wrong with wanting us to lose, which you asked me to show (no doubt expecting me not to have a repsonse!) and I did. Not going to argue with the rest of your points though.

 

People are welcome to not like the manager, not like the way we are playing, etc but if you want us to lose, you're a word that you probably aren't allowed to use on this forum, and I definitely do not consider them a Derby supporter.

Edited September 1 by The Running Man

[jono]

42 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

A post which either dismisses, ignores or is in denial about what mine was actually saying, preferring to go on another little rant where less than a handful of posters are used to stain the views of a wider subset.

People have 100% been shouted down - just because it hasn't been successful doesn't mean the effort to do so wasn't there.

You can say there's nothing wrong with criticising the manager, but the reaction when people do - even those who've made fair comment - says otherwise. It's an attitude that prevades the very air of this place. No other manager has been given this level of protection.

 

edited down because a) I'm off out shopping and can't be bothered to get into a wider argument and b) the 'cut content' would have been dragging the post down to the same level as the one's I'm thinking of.

In essence you seem to be saying some of us should modify our postings whilst others should be free to say what they want without reaction even if what they say is inaccurate and often times unpleasant . Those who have been shouted down as you put it (I prefer to say out argued or ridiculed) simply hold a view that is so alien to the others that it is bound to elicit a equal and opposite reaction. Are you saying that reaction shouldn’t be allowed ? I’d say to you, why should these posters get this level of protection ? 
In any case, Warne hasn’t been protected he’s had plenty of criticism across the board. He gets defended from unwarranted toxicity and quite rightly so too. 
 

Enjoy the shopping, I’m just off to make the gravy for roast dinner 

Edited September 1 by jono

[jono]

53 minutes ago, Spender said:

That's not at all controversial for me. It's exactly how it is and was when he came to the club. There was just one major question mark hanging over him; when he got us back to the Championship, with a budget and support bigger by a country mile than what he'd had at Rotherham, could he establish us here and continue to improve us? He's on that stage now and in the opening act he's given us a  glimmer of hope that he just may have the required tools in his box to deliver just that and positively quash the biggest doubt that the fanbase, not unreasonably, had about him.

Some will still demand that they want to see open and attractive football that is exciting and pleasant on the eye. Wouldn't we all? But the reality of that is that in the last 25 years we have only witnessed occasional relatively short periods like that; under George Burley, Mac 1 and Frank Lampard who had something else in common - they all ultimately failed to to deliver the upward progression we yearned for.

Paul Warne's teams don't play the beautiful game but what I have to say is, that along with a few disappointing days, we've seen quite a few exciting ones this past 23 months and for me yesterday, against a decent and relatively costly Championship side, was up there with the best. I don't fear any team in this league coming to Pride Park to face our team and fans; let the opposition be fearful. We won't win them all and there'll be a few bumps along the way but for me it feels pretty good to be be a Derby fan just now. Except for 15 minutes at Blackburn, we've matched our opposition all of whom were in the top half of the table this time yesterday. May it continue.

COYR 

Brilliant post 👍🏼🐏🍻

[Andicis]

This thread becomes quickly tedious when it becomes a "I told you so competition". People have valid concerns, and other fans don't hold the same fears which is also valid. But the response after every fixture on here is just annoying. 

The game yesterday was great, it's what we all want to see, good football and good result. The idea that those who have been concerned up to now just want to see us lose is silly. But as soon we get a positive or a negative result this thread becomes all about recriminations. People's concerns up to now are not invalidated by one result. Same as one defeat doesn't undermine their position to support Warne. 

It would be great if there was more space for good faith discussion on this thread.

[Chester40]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

This thread becomes quickly tedious when it becomes a "I told you so competition". People have valid concerns, and other fans don't hold the same fears which is also valid. But the response after every fixture on here is just annoying. 

The game yesterday was great, it's what we all want to see, good football and good result. The idea that those who have been concerned up to now just want to see us lose is silly. But as soon we get a positive or a negative result this thread becomes all about recriminations. People's concerns up to now are not invalidated by one result. Same as one defeat doesn't undermine their position to support Warne. 

It would be great if there was more space for good faith discussion on this thread.

But that is most prevalent to me when we lose.....posters come out of the woodwork just to say how terrible Warne is, how we are definitely getting finishing bottom etc etc.

[Andicis]

Just now, Chester40 said:

But that is most prevalent to me when we lose.....posters come out of the woodwork just to say how terrible Warne is, how we are definitely getting finishing bottom etc etc.

It's similarly prevalent when we win. Just look at the posts from the last few pages. And it's tedious either way. It doesn't add anything to the discussion other than just being a dick measuring contest. 

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

This thread becomes quickly tedious when it becomes a "I told you so competition". People have valid concerns, and other fans don't hold the same fears which is also valid. But the response after every fixture on here is just annoying. 

The game yesterday was great, it's what we all want to see, good football and good result. The idea that those who have been concerned up to now just want to see us lose is silly. But as soon we get a positive or a negative result this thread becomes all about recriminations. People's concerns up to now are not invalidated by one result. Same as one defeat doesn't undermine their position to support Warne. 

It would be great if there was more space for good faith discussion on this thread.

The problem is some of these people don’t practise what they preach.

[Chester40]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

It's similarly prevalent when we win. Just look at the posts from the last few pages. And it's tedious either way. It doesn't add anything to the discussion other than just being a dick measuring contest. 

I keep making the same point... its a Derby forum.

Fans over-excitedly responding to say look how great we are is much less grating to me than people coming on after a defeat to keep exaggerating and sticking the knife in.

Anyhow, all been said before.

Great performance I think everyone has agreed.

[Jourdan]

1 minute ago, Chester40 said:

Great performance I think everyone has agreed.

Could have been better.