Paul Warne

[Crewton]

8 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Not really, management is a dog eat dogs game and also the current managers previous record will also count and when not going well supporters will look to 3 relegations in 3 and think he’s not up to it. You can talk about Rotherham’s budget all day long and to a degree have a point but similar budget teams have stayed up in the championship. 
 

theres no harm in admitting at league 1 warne is a god, his style works bar 1 or 2 teams it’s not a footballing or intelligent division. You can make mistakes and get away with it. There’s no essence of tactics in league 1 but I found myself watching games in league 1 where warne got tactically outdone with managers making decisions and he didn’t react. 
 

unfortunately in the championship warne is a peasant. Managers are tactically astute and most teams play good football and can at times cut through you at will. You have to mix up play and I don’t see anything different in how we approach games. I can take being outplayed by certain teams in this division but mainly we got outplayed by teams in league 1 as well and waited for a set piece. 
 

I’ll give him time but I have seen nothing to suggest he has the tactical nouse to with stand this league which is a million times better than league 1. 

That last paragraph belies what you've been posting recently and the first paragraph shows clearly that it wouldn't matter what Warne did, you'd want him sacked because you've made your mind up about him owing to his previous championship campaigns with Rotherham.

[jimtastic56]

20 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I think the real point is that any group of fans that start calling for the manager's head 3 games into the season after promotion are a sad indictment of the modern football supporter.

At the end of the Carlisle game , David Clowes held the runners up trophy above his head and  20,000 of us stood on the PP pitch and sang “Nott’m Forest, we’re coming for you “. Expectation had gone through the roof . Pearce said we we’re not here to make the numbers up . So is it any wonder Warne is feeling very let down by our bloated recruitment team ?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

22 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Two seasons in L1 where we couldn't pay fees saw us having to choose from a very limited pool of players. I thing getting promoted at the end of the 2nd season was an excellent achievement.

This season there is a little more cash available. Thus far we have spent, including possible add ons, a max of £2M on Goudmijn and Zetterström. Has the club decided to attempt to attract better players through wage offers rather than paying fees? Has a limited budget forced that decision?

One question I'd like answering is, is the dropping back 5 to 10 yards and surrendering midfield to the opposition Warne's tactics or are the players doing it? I sincerely hope it's the latter as the staff could correct that. If it's a tactic we've chosen then we are in the mire.

This 

[Barney1991]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

That last paragraph belies what you've been posting recently and the first paragraph shows clearly that it wouldn't matter what Warne did, you'd want him sacked because you've made your mind up about him owing to his previous championship campaigns with Rotherham.

I will give him time like has been put on here he turned it around last season. I’m just making a point that I feel tactically he isn’t good enough and we’ve approached each game the same sitting back and trying to soak it up. Look at other forums where fans of other clubs have said we are the worst team they have played in a long time and that’s about a team that over the years played some of the best football I’ve ever seen. 
 

It is also fair to make a point of previous records to mount a perspective surely. If I was an electrician and the last 3 houses I went to fix burnt down and you need electrical work doing I assume you would be happy for me to attempt at fixing the issue? 

[Mckram]

11 hours ago, Eoghan1884 said:

A newly promoted team have lost 2 from 2 scoring 1 and conceding 6. Lost to a league two team on penalties but aren’t having a meltdown because there fans are saying it’s the man who’s got them promoted. It’s Ipswich by the way. They lost to Wimbledon on pens after drawing 2-2 in the 90 minutes. 

I don’t want Warne out but come on, this has to be the most ridiculous comparison I’ve ever seen!

Ipswich were in the same league as us what, 16 months ago? You cannot compare the two managers. That league one Ipswich side was unbelievable and played the best football I’ve seen in league one and arguably championship last season.

Warne deserves more time, especially given his hands look tied from a transfer perspective and let’s be honest what is a new manager going to achieve when the transfer window is shut. But if we’re bottom after 10-15 games playing the way we do then I’d be surprised if he doesn’t go.

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

At the end of the Carlisle game , David Clowes held the runners up trophy above his head and  20,000 of us stood on the PP pitch and sang “Nott’m Forest, we’re coming for you “. Expectation had gone through the roof . Pearce said we we’re not here to make the numbers up . So is it any wonder Warne is feeling very let down by our bloated recruitment team ?

They have put themselves in the 'firing line' and when that happens in football, and results don't happen, then the higher echelons usually throw the manager under the bus. #weliveininterestingtimes 

Edited August 29 by RoyMac5

[Sparkle]

44 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I think the real point is that any group of fans that start calling for the manager's head 3 games into the season after promotion are a sad indictment of the modern football supporter.

Whilst I accept your point I think we should have parted company with him the week after promotion and moved on to achieve something more positive than a manager telling the players they are not good enough and wanting replacements for most of them whilst saying how good the opponent are every single match.

[RoyMac5]

52 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Nice post.

It gets to the stage where every misplaced pass, overhit cross, missed tackle is Warn’s fault. 

Can’t compete with established championship clubs for the players we’ve identified? Warne rubbish.

Can’t convince them to come to a club that’s going to lose the majority of its games? Why not?

The only players we are going to attract are players looking for a chance, either because they are getting too old, lack experience or have failed at previous clubs. That’s not a great pool to fish in, but it’s where we are. We are just hoping these guys find their mojo with us. It is a punt and some won’t improve us.

What we do need is a strong team spirit and a crowd that supports the manager and players that represent Derby County for any given game. We can’t be divided yet hope the team is strong.
 

The style of awful football he wants to play is his fault, lots of the rest trickle down from that.

[Saturn5]

It's very hard to Judge PW's signings 

One one hand 

Jackson, Osborn, Yates, Ozoh, Adams, Kenzo, Zetterstrom, etc are all better than what we had and all have qualities that team needed 

On the other hand 

we have the most unbalanced squad i have seen for years

Jackson, NML, Chirewa, Ward, Wilson all Right Midfield/Wing - But we have few to no options on the left with only Barks and CBT - Barks clearly isn't wanted by Warne and even when he has been on a decent run has been dropped and CBT has either been injured or pretty awful, bar 20 mins v Pompey

Nyambe, Wilson, Ward all Right backs / wing backs and only the aging Foz and injury prone Elder on the left (Wilson and Ward more Wing backs as is Elder but we scrapped the 3 at the back)

Only Cashin, Bradley, Nelson at CB - no pace and lacking in being able to play out from the back other than a hoof to the wings, Bradley struggles to pass 10 yards most of the time. Rooney has been unlucky with his injury but would never have been anything more than cover 

Needing a Striker - we have Collins, Washington, Yates, Brown - none prolific at this level and Wash can't even get on against Barrow and is injury prone, Yates looks decent in his movement but not sure he can hold a ball up, Brown is young and still learning and would ideally be going out on loan. Collins will always divide opinion, his touch is poor and i don't think he is anything other than a "throw on" Sub when you need a goal player in at this level 

with all the above it feels like a scattered approach to transfers mainly due to wanting to play 3 at the back and then scrapping the idea twice for a back four and not having defensively solid fullbacks due to this but having an abundance of wide players of which most don't get a look in

we have decent options down the right but nothing on the left and forcing NML to play on left has made him less effective

The Midfield isn't a huge concern personnel wise but how they are deployed is, Adams and Ozoh can clearly be holding midfielders but Thommo isn't a ten and Kenzo isn't a holding midfielder (as seen v Barrow) Osborn is always Injured but has quality and was excellent v Boro. Kenzo needs to play further forward to be effective and is lightweight in this league, Chirewa is naturally a right winger but could play inside and looked like he has good range of passing but not seen enough of him although again very lightweight.

We don't have the "competitive" budget DC promised - it's a small budget but not the smallest in the league. So we need to be very prudent in where we spend the money - this seems to have been missed, could we have saved on Jackson and placed that money/wage into a CB or a left Winger ? Could we have Loaned in a CB or LB instead of Chirewa. Could we have saved Collins Wages to put towards a better Striker at this level? 

Previous transfer haven't inspired, the main ones CBT, Bradley and Washington all on good money but not commanding a 1st team spot 

PW needed to have a clear picture of his intended Team / Squad and then stick to his convictions but hasn't and i fear we will struggle through forcing square pegs in round holes to play a formation the manager doesn't really have any love for and without a style of play or true philosophy.

We knew it would be a long hard season and i do think we have the players to keep us up but i am concerned we don't have the imagination or coaching ability to get this squad going. There is only so far you can go on having a good dressing room and good people - sometimes you need a nasty B*stard and a Maverick (Jim Smiths team following Stimac's arrival - we were awful leading up to it)

Short answer to giving PW more money ................. we have to. but there will be a lot for the new guy to sort out in January when PW is sacked

[Crewton]

30 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

I will give him time like has been put on here he turned it around last season. I’m just making a point that I feel tactically he isn’t good enough and we’ve approached each game the same sitting back and trying to soak it up. Look at other forums where fans of other clubs have said we are the worst team they have played in a long time and that’s about a team that over the years played some of the best football I’ve ever seen. 
 

It is also fair to make a point of previous records to mount a perspective surely. If I was an electrician and the last 3 houses I went to fix burnt down and you need electrical work doing I assume you would be happy for me to attempt at fixing the issue? 

We very clearly DIDN'T sit back against Blackburn, and it cost us with that 3-goal burst. We didn't sit back against Boro until we lost two defenders, both of whom help to get us moving forward. We did, of course, sit back against Watford after scoring the early goal (never seen that before when teams play at PP eh?) but were generally the better team for most of the second half, such that the Watford fans reacted like they'd won the cup on the final whistle, with the fair-minded among them acknowledging that they'd been given a tough game. I've seen some opposing fans call us crap even after we gave them a football lesson under SMc, so don't pay too much attention to sour grapes posters.

Quite what football management has to do with incompetent electricians though, I really don't know.

[Crewton]

42 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

At the end of the Carlisle game , David Clowes held the runners up trophy above his head and  20,000 of us stood on the PP pitch and sang “Nott’m Forest, we’re coming for you “. Expectation had gone through the roof . Pearce said we we’re not here to make the numbers up . So is it any wonder Warne is feeling very let down by our bloated recruitment team ?

Well I'd understand Warne feeling let down a bit, but other Managers choosing to hang on to their players and other clubs overspending for players is out of the hands of the recruitment team. And I don't doubt that Clowes and Pearce genuinely want us to compete, but I doubt also they'd expect the season to be judged after 3 games when there are officially 8 teams below us in the table and 4 teams above us on the same number of points.

Negativity is a very destructive emotion.

[Ghost of Clough]

57 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

At the end of the Carlisle game , David Clowes held the runners up trophy above his head and  20,000 of us stood on the PP pitch and sang “Nott’m Forest, we’re coming for you “. Expectation had gone through the roof . Pearce said we we’re not here to make the numbers up . So is it any wonder Warne is feeling very let down by our bloated recruitment team ?

Or is our recruitment team tearing their hair out at Warne discarding every option they come up with?

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

I think the real point is that any group of fans that start calling for the manager's head 3 games into the season after promotion are a sad indictment of the modern football supporter.

Absolutely agree on that one (as I think my previous posts would confirm).

I was just suggesting that you can't really compare our start to the season (and subsequently the fans views on the managers position) to that of Ipswich at the moment. I reckon most Ipswich fans are thinking "meh" regarding the Wimbledon defeat and "it's what we expected" regarding their start to the league season. I would imagine most Derby fans were hoping the Barrow game was a chance to boost the confidence a little whereas, it's actually done the opposite.

My view is, it's way too early to be calling for PW to be gone (I'm sure some will ask when is the right time? I don't know but not after only three Championship games) but there could be grounds for a few concerns especially after the dismal showing at Barrow (regardless of how we feel about the competition). 

[EnigmaRam]

[Gabby'sThighs]

It's a while to wait but I'm going to reserve judgement until the end of October, after 15 games played. By then the new players should have bedded in, they're all Warne's picks, no excuses, and we'll have played 6-ish more teams we'd expect to get some points against. Four points from September? Six from October? We could be looking at 13-15 points going into November, which is relegation form.
November's fixtures should be a chance to pick up a number of wins - Stoke, Coventry, Plymouth, Preston, Swansea, Wednesday - before a tough December.

If we're still seriously struggling after Hull on 26th Oct, maybe twist then if there is a good option available, but I'm not a fan of mid-season switches.

[Crewton]

57 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Absolutely agree on that one (as I think my previous posts would confirm).

I was just suggesting that you can't really compare our start to the season (and subsequently the fans views on the managers position) to that of Ipswich at the moment. I reckon most Ipswich fans are thinking "meh" regarding the Wimbledon defeat and "it's what we expected" regarding their start to the league season. I would imagine most Derby fans were hoping the Barrow game was a chance to boost the confidence a little whereas, it's actually done the opposite.

My view is, it's way too early to be calling for PW to be gone (I'm sure some will ask when is the right time? I don't know but not after only three Championship games) but there could be grounds for a few concerns especially after the dismal showing at Barrow (regardless of how we feel about the competition). 

Yes I'm sure that the only thing Ipswich fans care about this season is finishing out of the relegation places - but apparently Derby County should concentrate more on playing open, attacking football despite not having spent a fifth of what Ipswich have before and after promotion.

[May Contain Nuts]

 

Based on what i've seen so far it's difficult to say, depends if the promising ones are used correctly / live up to it.

Only having 2/28 (26 new players) signings I can confidently call a success isn't exactly promising, but that number could change significantly.

 

Edited August 29 by May Contain Nuts

[RoyMac5]

34 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

 

Based on what i've seen so far it's difficult to say, depends if the promising ones are used correctly / live up to it.

Only having 2/28 (26 new players) signings I can confidently call a success isn't exactly promising, but that number could change significantly.

 

I agree, but a bit hard on Waggy, scored some goals, which were important?

[May Contain Nuts]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I agree, but a bit hard on Waggy, scored some goals, which were important?

Possibly, but the list is written with a long term / overall view which has to account for the amount of time they spent injured. Gayle gets into the somewhat successful list because he was only meant as a 3-4 month option in the first place.

It's also based on the potential for some of last season's signings to contribute this season.

Plenty of players did something important at some point, but it doesn't mean their signing was overall a success.

Edited August 29 by May Contain Nuts

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Possibly, but the list is written with a long term / overall view which has to account for the amount of time they spent injured. Gayle gets into the somewhat successful list because he was only meant as a 3-4 month option in the first place.

It's also based on the potential for some of last season's signings to contribute this season.

Plenty of players did something important at some point, but it doesn't mean their signing was overall a success.

Gayle and Waghorn are on part for me, if anything Waghorn slightly ahead.

Both were late signings to plug the gap of failing to sign a forward. The difference is, Waghorn played 27 times during a whole season, whilst Gayle only 6 times in half a season. 7 goals vs 3 goals and an assist.