Paul Warne

[i-Ram]

6 hours ago, brady1993 said:

It's strange because honestly I feel like after Bristol there is arguably more to talk about than we've had in a while. It's the first performance where I felt there were signs of a shift in approach by Warne.

I am interested to hear more, and engage on that. I only watched the highlights which is clearly not a good way to determine anything, other than acknowledge we scored 3 really good goals.

Do you think there has been a shift in approach by Warne, or are some of our new players showing enhanced skill levels, and they influenced the style of play. It seemed to me in the 9 minutes I watched, that Kenzo, Jackson, Ozoh and Yates brought a new dynamic to the team, playing more through the middle, than just getting it out wide? Genuine question, not looking for confrontation from anyone, how much of this result can be put down as a plus mark for Warne?

[i-Ram]

6 hours ago, brady1993 said:

It's strange because honestly I feel like after Bristol there is arguably more to talk about than we've had in a while. It's the first performance where I felt there were signs of a shift in approach by Warne.

By the way I am glad you are posting again. I enjoy your game play and tactical analyses, as I do from say @duncanjwitham and @Ghost of Clough, and of course @angieram   We need more content like that on here.

[jono]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

I think there is an element of getting better at what Warne wants but I also think there are signs in a shift in an approach in places. Not necessarily huge shifts but meaningful ones. I thought it was notable that we weren't trying to force it as much, were more content to try to play our way out from the back, we were more content to try recycle possession and we weren't just aiming to force it wide to cross but looking to work opportunities more. These are things to certain extents go counter to how we've set up previously, how Rotherham have set up and things that Warne has said before. Most of these things I've had concerns around alongside being a touch more thoughtful in our pressing because I felt that if they weren't addressed to an extent it'd be difficult in this division.

It’s interesting. I thought Bristol looked like a slightly less talented Middlesbrough and for the first 20 minutes we treated them as such. We almost seemed deferential and happy to play ourselves as plucky underdogs. I can’t quite decide what it was that lifted us prior to the goal but our heads definitely lifted. 
 

I think the playing from the back and through the middle came from growing confidence in Jacob, Cashin clearly in better form and the midfielders being more aggressive and mobile. The goal reinforced what was already happening and at HT Warne polished it with a bit of tweaking.

The jury is still out for me because we can’t afford to do what we did at the start of last season. One good game followed by a relapse .. That trait still puzzles me about Warne’s sides. It isn’t about results.. you can play well and lose. It’s a demeanour thing. There were games, regardless of the score when you thought .. are these the same guys that played last week ? That said, it is a whole different team so I suppose we’ll just have to see what happens.

[bcnram]

There has been an obvious shift in the way the manager sets them up to play. From the disjointed, awful to watch stuff he had them playing after leaving Rotherham to this season, where we are often playing out from the back, passing in midfield and not just relying on slinging crosses in. 
 

Even in the two games we lost, I thought we played well for decent spells. My only disappointment has been the Middlesbrough game where in my view we got away with it. 
 

The manager has grown into the role, I hope he continues growing. 

[Srg]

4 minutes ago, bcnram said:

There has been an obvious shift in the way the manager sets them up to play. From the disjointed, awful to watch stuff he had them playing after leaving Rotherham to this season, where we are often playing out from the back, passing in midfield and not just relying on slinging crosses in. 
 

Even in the two games we lost, I thought we played well for decent spells. My only disappointment has been the Middlesbrough game where in my view we got away with it. 
 

The manager has grown into the role, I hope he continues growing. 

At Watford, 10 of the 11 starters were Warne signings, against Bristol it was 9 out of 11 (Cashin/NML the exceptions). The absolute maximum he ever used in League One was 6, and most of the time it was less than that. Says a lot, really.

[Donnyram]

On 01/09/2024 at 08:32, jono said:

One thing that gets me is the sort of “why can’t management see what we see”. But if you listen to PW post match, he does.

I think that’s why Warne has really grown on me. Win or lose his post match comments tell me that we both watched the same match. He’s quirky for sure, but easily the most honest post match summaries I have heard from a serving manager. 

He has also consistently described the “style of play” he is striving for.  We started to see that in action on Saturday.

He has also consistently described the culture he has been striving for - we saw that last season in abundance and that togetherness helped get us out of League 1 

A change of squad to help deliver the style of play and the culture remains.

Seems to me to be a management team who have a plan and are delivering.  Long may it continue 🐏

Edited September 3 by Donnyram

[jono]

8 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

You're obsessed with this idea that I've said you don't have the right to argue with and challenge harsh views, That must be 4 or 5 times you've accused me of that in the past 24 hours, even though I've never said it.

All I did to open this conversation was to point out that people who may not be dyed in the wool fans of Warne but who haven't been abusive are being lined up under the same sights as those who have been. Hardly controversial really.

The fact that you keep on paint anyone who challenges the nature of your posts as crybabies tells me everything I need to know. You're so keen to dispell the notion that there's any form of bullying taking place, but your response to it might as well be 'bullying 101'

It's hardly any wonder I think you're utterly blind - or at least massively in denial - as to your own role in making this place so hostile.

If you honestly can't see that these sorts of behaviours (back to the general 'shouting/shutting down stuff rather than bullying)  are taking place (even though i've provided examples of the sort of comments being made) then again, its a pointless conversation - you will NEVER see it because you are part of it.

General's response - yeah, and? At least I gave someone the opportunity to explain and/or redeem himself, even if just ended up providing him with enough rope to hang himself. Better that than jumping straight to shaming someone for a comment highlighted in isolation. I'd do it again.

I think you should read your own post back before suggesting that I am adding  to any hostility. 

[jono]

4 minutes ago, Donnyram said:

He has also consistently described the “style of play” he is striving for.  We started to see that in action on Saturday.

He has also consistently described the culture he has been striving for - we saw that last season in abundance and that togetherness helped get us out of League 1 

A change of squad to help deliver the style of play and the culture remains.

Seems to me to be a management team who have a plan and are delivering.  Long may it continue 🐏

Totally agree. I am simply keeping my fingers crossed that we can now find the consistency to execute the plan/strategy. I think we can and I think we have the tools to do it, but that is after a cracking performance and win and my optimism can be fragile. 🤣 I don’t think I have as eagerly awaited the next game for at least 10 years. 

[BaianoPOTY98]

23 minutes ago, bcnram said:

There has been an obvious shift in the way the manager sets them up to play. From the disjointed, awful to watch stuff he had them playing after leaving Rotherham to this season, where we are often playing out from the back, passing in midfield and not just relying on slinging crosses in. 
 

Even in the two games we lost, I thought we played well for decent spells. My only disappointment has been the Middlesbrough game where in my view we got away with it. 
 

The manager has grown into the role, I hope he continues growing. 

Not only has the manager grown into the role, but so have the players. I agree on the point about the Boro game, personally i think it was a confidence thing, like someone else said earlier, we were the same for the first 20 minutes on Saturday, then confidence seemed to grow and grow as the game went on. Hopefully at home against Cardiff we will see the game start as it finished on Saturday.

[Inverurie Ram]

40 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I am interested to hear more, and engage on that. I only watched the highlights which is clearly not a good way to determine anything, other than acknowledge we scored 3 really good goals.

Do you think there has been a shift in approach by Warne, or are some of our new players showing enhanced skill levels, and they influenced the style of play. It seemed to me in the 9 minutes I watched, that Kenzo, Jackson, Ozoh and Yates brought a new dynamic to the team, playing more through the middle, than just getting it out wide? Genuine question, not looking for confrontation from anyone, how much of this result can be put down as a plus mark for Warne?

Players and coaches gain plus marks equally , they work together on and off the field obviously, and Saturdays performance highlighted the togetherness.

The fans enjoyed the game as they appreciated what the players were trying to do, on the pitch and they didn’t turn on them after the midweek performance in the cup realising the league games are more important.

Obviously they will be the same characters sat in their seats at PP and away, that have just come along for a moan, but the majority of fans out sing them, out praise them and see our performances differently.

The players played with a better tempo from GK and defence and it was great to see Cash back in the team, and yes the new players on this occasion were giving us an improved dynamic, the players enjoyed it, the coaches enjoyed it, and I’m sure everyone connected to the club enjoyed it.

I certainly did and if there are a few different types of folk that didn’t enjoy it, I’ll do my very best to avoid them, there choices and opinions after all.

Up The Rams 🐏

 

[brady1993]

59 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I am interested to hear more, and engage on that. I only watched the highlights which is clearly not a good way to determine anything, other than acknowledge we scored 3 really good goals.

Do you think there has been a shift in approach by Warne, or are some of our new players showing enhanced skill levels, and they influenced the style of play. It seemed to me in the 9 minutes I watched, that Kenzo, Jackson, Ozoh and Yates brought a new dynamic to the team, playing more through the middle, than just getting it out wide? Genuine question, not looking for confrontation from anyone, how much of this result can be put down as a plus mark for Warne?

Whichever way it's likely a plus mark for Warne but that question in a nutshell is why I think it's interesting. I feel like most people it seems who watched the game thought that 'something' is different; whether that something is down to players, Warne or a combination of both is actually something fun to talk about. 

I don't think it's down to the midfield. Not talking about quality here but more that we had good ball players in midfield for the last 2 seasons. 

I think Yates is potentially a big factor. He's very much a linkup player who looks like he's going to thrive with the ball drilled into his feet, often with back to goal. But he's also not a target man. We can't just try to hit him with a long ball and hope to build from there or just aim to launch crosses at him. Could well be that we've shifted in approach to get the best out of him or that we signed him because that's the approach we wanted to shift to. Either way credit is deserved for it because it looks more appealing and I think it will be more effective.

One thing I've been critical of under Warne at times is a tendency to always try to play 100mph, always forwards as quickly as possible through whatever route possible and into the box as quick as possible with complete disregard as to whether it was a good idea. But against Bristol it was notable (especially when confidence grew) that if it wasn't on we'd look to have a bit more patience and try to work on opening. It might not be a colossal shift but it's the kind of shift that can make the difference between having control and not.

The other element might be the league or at least how Warne thinks about the league. In league 1, frankly you can get away with an awful lot and more often than not a team is only going to score versus you if you don't make a mistake and they themselves are far more likely to make a mistake. It's possible that you take the logic that if you keep putting the ball into 'the right areas' of both the box and the pitch eventually they'll beat themselves and the only way you'll concede is if you make a mistake on the ball in a dangerous area. There is a high degree of truth to that even if it's pragmatic. But it doesn't hold true in the championship and perhaps it's a shift in recognition of that.

[Jram]

Just listened to Rams Daily and it’s taken until the last minute of the podcast for someone to say “hang on, guys, we’ll probably lose quite a few this season, let’s remember we’re not now Man City”

Worries me how unquestioningly people ride their emotions- get your tin hat ready, Paul, if we lose to Cardiff 

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

I’m sat here drinking coffee on a French campsite, having spent the last few days interacting with the locals, whilst simultaneously being surrounded by German campers, and I can’t help but notice just how wonderfully amiable people are. 
I’ve not had chance to catch up on here, but I suspect it’s equally amiable after Saturday’s win!  😁👍

I can visualise it now 

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, jono said:

It’s interesting. I thought Bristol looked like a slightly less talented Middlesbrough and for the first 20 minutes we treated them as such. We almost seemed deferential and happy to play ourselves as plucky underdogs. I can’t quite decide what it was that lifted us prior to the goal but our heads definitely lifted. 

I think it was a few things starting to add up looking back at it. We were trying to play the same way even from early on it just wasn't quite working out. There was a touch of sloppiness in the early stages that we started to tighten up. Kenzo, Yates and NML started really looking for the ball and dropping into space to get on it (Kenzo particularly). The big element though I think is Jackson or at least how Jackson started to make Bristol's fullbacks play a bit more honestly. Basically early doors their full backs are pushing up really aggressively and they are play a high line. Jackson just sits high and wide and we nearly get him in behind of 4 separate occasions behind the left back and one more time he nearly gets in behind the right back. And they start to back off that touch. You can literally see it in action within the space of about 3 minutes with almost two identical starting moves.

1) Around the 23rd minute. Cashin into Elder into Yates who's dropped into a spot on our left wing. Bristol's right back is touch tight with Yates in our half as he gets the ball and there are several red shirts really close by. Bear in mind the right back is pressing someone who isn't his man and NML is lurking somewhere behind him. It breaks down into a throw in, with the right back out of position Jackson makes a clever run into that space that Elder can put the ball into for a throw leading to a free kick.

2) Around the 26th minute. Cashin into Elder into NML. Bristol's right back tracks NML but he isn't as close and he isn't touch tight when NML gets the ball (well would get the ball as he dummies it) and none of the Bristol players are as tight into our touchline. This is the move that ends ups with the chance Kenzo should score from. I can't say for sure but it's very likely the right back doesn't press as aggressively because there is now that fraction of doubt in his mind based what just happened.

 

2 hours ago, jono said:

I think the playing from the back and through the middle came from growing confidence in Jacob, Cashin clearly in better form and the midfielders being more aggressive and mobile. The goal reinforced what was already happening and at HT Warne polished it with a bit of tweaking.

What I'm comparing it to though is last year. Last year we had Cashin and we had midfielders comfortable on the ball. In fact you want to look after the ball more if your midfielders are slower because you aren't getting back as easily.

 

2 hours ago, jono said:

The jury is still out for me because we can’t afford to do what we did at the start of last season. One good game followed by a relapse .. That trait still puzzles me about Warne’s sides. It isn’t about results.. you can play well and lose. It’s a demeanour thing. There were games, regardless of the score when you thought .. are these the same guys that played last week ? That said, it is a whole different team so I suppose we’ll just have to see what happens.

Yeah it's just one game and we shall see. With your last point I do wonder if it's partly on Warne's mindset. Sometimes he seems extremely bullish in how he talks about an opponent and then sometimes overly deferential. It's like how he started with NML and Barkhuizen at wing back which is extremely aggresive. But when we played Ipswich at home in his first season he waxed on about how excellent they were and in how he talked it felt like a 'of course we lost', when I felt they looked painfully ordinary that day

[Loughborough Ram]

I think that one or two myths used as a stick to beat Warne with, have been completely dispelled after Saturday.

Firstly that his intention is to play with 11 men behind the ball and park the bus against everyone, which was the accusation after the Middlesborough game.

Secondly that he isn't tactically aware. He has shown in both his set up for the games and his formation shift in both home games, that have resulted in wins, that he is very tactically aware, and we are able to win against any opposition given the right guidance.

[MaltRam]

Paul has consistently said that he wants a hard running team. Having inherited a squad built for posession football he now after 3 windows has the physicality required to play his way...up to a point. It's not about long ball or anything of the sort, it's about picking a team to meet the challenge of any given match and playing that match with pace and energy. When you think about it, the flexibility the coaching staff show is impressive.

[Nuwtfly]

5 minutes ago, Loughborough Ram said:

I think that one or two myths used as a stick to beat Warne with, have been completely dispelled after Saturday.

Firstly that his intention is to play with 11 men behind the ball and park the bus against everyone, which was the accusation after the Middlesborough game.

Secondly that he isn't tactically aware. He has shown in both his set up for the games and his formation shift in both home games, that have resulted in wins, that he is very tactically aware, and we are able to win against any opposition given the right guidance.

I don’t think that’s true, as good as the performance was.

It was just one game. If we keep playing that way then absolutely, but it’s important to not to get carried away regarding how good we are based on one game. Other posters have suggested the exact same regarding the game against Barrow. 

I feared, and still do really, that he is a limited manager who gets found out at this level. That performance against City was probably the first time I really started to think: wow, ok, maybe with a team of his own players, he might be up to this.

Edited September 3 by Nuwtfly

[Loughborough Ram]

8 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

I don’t think that’s true, as good as the performance was.

It was just one game. If we keep playing that way then absolutely, but it’s important to not to get carried away regarding how good we are based on one game. Other posters have suggested the exact same regarding the game against Barrow. 

I feared, and still do really, that he is a limited manager who gets found out at this level. That performance against City was probably the first time I really started to think: wow, ok, maybe with a team of his own players, he might be up to this.

By most peoples admission, the decision to move Ozoh a little further forward to make a flat 3 changed the game

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Loughborough Ram said:

I think that one or two myths used as a stick to beat Warne with, have been completely dispelled after Saturday.

Firstly that his intention is to play with 11 men behind the ball and park the bus against everyone, which was the accusation after the Middlesborough game.

Secondly that he isn't tactically aware. He has shown in both his set up for the games and his formation shift in both home games, that have resulted in wins, that he is very tactically aware, and we are able to win against any opposition given the right guidance.

I think you are creating a myth, which you then try to dispel. I don’t think anyone thinks or has said that it is Warne’s intention to:

to play with 11 men behind the ball and park the bus against everyone

If anything most anti-Warne viewpoints appear to be that he leaves us too open in most matches, because of a desire to bang it down the wings, and for the midfield to try and get in the box for second balls. Then leaving a vacuum between midfield and defence (which was ruthlessly exploited in the Blackburn game). I think that with the Bristol game, looking at in isolation, there is good evidence to suggest that the team were trying to play in a more structured, less one dimensional way. Warne probably deserves some credit for that, and so do some of the new players. How much you allocate to each is still very debatable. Let’s see how things shape up in the next game.

[Loughborough Ram]

13 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I think you are creating a myth, which you then try to dispel. I don’t think anyone thinks or has said that it is Warne’s intention to:

to play with 11 men behind the ball and park the bus against everyone

 

I think that if you want to be pedantic that those exact words weren't used, the yes, you may well be right.

If however, you read through the aftermath of the Middlesborough match day thread, this sentiment was expressed by many posters, either explicitly or by implication. 

It's not always easy to criticise after a hard fought victory but this was definitely the go to stick to beat Warne with in the absence of anything else.