Post office scandal

[Spanish]

7 hours ago, I DONT MIND said:

Just to be pedantic (i do intensely dislike the man as well) Adam Crozier was CEO of Royal Mail not the Post Office they are different legal personalities.

At present he is the chairman of Whitbread and BT. 😢

Quote from telegraph 

 

Adam Crozier, the former chief executive of Royal Mail, would have been aware about the faulty Horizon IT system after it was identified as “problematic” by his technology specialists, an insider has claimed

 

royal mail owned the post office at that time

[GB SPORTS]

2 hours ago, Spanish said:

Quote from telegraph 

 

Adam Crozier, the former chief executive of Royal Mail, would have been aware about the faulty Horizon IT system after it was identified as “problematic” by his technology specialists, an insider has claimed

 

royal mail owned the post office at that time

Cheers i thought it was separated in 2001 but looking at it was pretty artificial separation were it became effectively 2 cost centres.

It became a completely different business in 2011, of course they are still enmeshed with one and another with RM picking letters up from the PO structures.

i think a lot of people are to blame in letting it fly from the time of Blair and Brown right through to present day.

 

 

 

[Spanish]

20 minutes ago, I DONT MIND said:

Cheers i thought it was separated in 2001 but looking at it was pretty artificial separation were it became effectively 2 cost centres.

It became a completely different business in 2011, of course they are still enmeshed with one and another with RM picking letters up from the PO structures.

i think a lot of people are to blame in letting it fly from the time of Blair and Brown right through to present day.

 

 

 

Yep I read the Tory graph were trying to get Blair and starmer enmeshed in this.  Clearly the tories have been out of power for decades

[GB SPORTS]

2 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Yep I read the Tory graph were trying to get Blair and starmer enmeshed in this.  Clearly the tories have been out of power for decades

No fan of any politicians, but if Crozier is being brought into it, (probably rightly)then his political masters need bringing into it.

[Grumpy Git]

Never mind. Whilst the shareholders have been picking-up dividends, the taxpayer will be on the hook for all the costs.

Imagine a world where private companies can get subsidies (even small ones who pay crap wages, so workers get 'tax credits'), but then can somehow pay dividends (privatised railways)? But still somehow the working class are persuaded to vote for these charlatans.

[FlyBritishMidland]

On 11/01/2024 at 20:15, Spanish said:

Yep I read the Tory graph were trying to get Blair and starmer enmeshed in this.  Clearly the tories have been out of power for decades

To be fair, it’s come upon the inquiry today.  Blair was PM when the system was implemented and some had made him aware of concerns but went ahead after reassurances.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495

Regardless, it shouldn’t take a TV documentary to bring this to a head.

[Ram-Alf]

Ian Hislop at his best...incase you missed it

 

 

[ram59]

Let's face it none of the 3 main political parties have come out of this well, they've let us and particularly the post office masters down badly. Fujitsu should be held to account also and be made to make amends.

The labour government were aware of problems before it was introduced but carried on anyway, to 'save' money and face, also they needed to suck up to Fujitsu. They were in power when the prosecutions started, having been told that the system was flawed with a current key member of the labour party being a minister responsible for the Post Office at the time of these prosecutions.

The lib dems were responsible during the 2010-15 period when the remaining prosecutions took place even though the problems were more widely known by then.

Finally, the Tories, although not directly responsible for the prosecutions, have known that the prosecutions were wrong after convictions have been overturned some years ago. They are only now doing something about speeding up the process because of a TV drama. 

All of the politicians involved have shunned their responsibility, for the easy life, apart from the now Lord Arbuthnot. Who knows if this scandal would have ever come to light, if he hadn't used his position to get the right people involved.

 

I just hope that justice is soon served with the innocent being compensated and the guilty ones locked up and losing any financial gain made from their exploits. Any MPs failing to properly act in these matters should shamed into standing down, just as other MPs have done for various indiscretions.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

On 08/01/2024 at 19:26, ram59 said:

It's disgraceful that these problems were evident over 20 years ago and nobody at the PO or government at the time either noticed and/or was prepared to act upon it. 

What can't be defended is the lack of action since the problems have come to light in the appeal courts. The people responsible for this have put  these sub postmasters through hell and will end up costing us taxpayers hundreds of millions of pounds, custodial sentences and loss of pensions should be the least of their punishments.

Whilst, I applaud the ITV for bringing this injustice to the fore, I feel that questions must be asked of them, regarding the exclusion of the head of the post office, prior to Paula Fennells. He was Adam Crozier and when he left his post at the post office, he went to become the head of ......................................................ITV.

And before the Post office, crozier was at the FA as CEO!

A career built on , exactly what we wonder!

The Board directors have individual legal liability so they too should be in the firing line.

[NottsRam77]

Just wandered if there are any other people on here that work or worked for the post office for 19 years .. we had a transaction correction for currency we hadnt processed but given out ??? totally out of the blue. 
 

We were new to the job and so while we were like how the hell, this isnt possible we had no support to investigate it other than to double check our figures and basically ended up having to pay 3k out of own pockets 

curious to know if anyone else has any experiences with the post office

[Ram-Alf]

And there we have it 😡

https://news.sky.com/story/post-office-scandal-fujitsu-admits-it-was-involved-from-the-very-start-and-helped-prosecute-sub-postmasters-13048987

[Grumpy Git]

7 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

And there we have it 😡

https://news.sky.com/story/post-office-scandal-fujitsu-admits-it-was-involved-from-the-very-start-and-helped-prosecute-sub-postmasters-13048987

In no attempt whatsoever to de-politicise this, anyone working class votes precisely for this scenario when they put their X in the Tory box, (no matter how much they want to deny it).

Tugging forelocks is optional.

 

A bit more evidence of corporate greed in overdrive here:

https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/15/free-money-executives-at-failing-train-company-joke-about-making-money-at-the-taxpayers-expense/

Edited January 16 by Grumpy Git

[Ram-Alf]

22 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

In no attempt whatsoever to de-politicise this, anyone working class votes precisely for this scenario when they put their X in the Tory box, (no matter how much they want to deny it).

Tugging forelocks is optional.

 

A bit more evidence of corporate greed in overdrive here:

https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/15/free-money-executives-at-failing-train-company-joke-about-making-money-at-the-taxpayers-expense/

All political parties have their grubby paw prints all over this, A report today saying even the Arch Bishop wanted Vennalls to get her CBE...My God 😁

[AndyinLiverpool]

14 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

All political parties have their grubby paw prints all over this, A report today saying even the Arch Bishop wanted Vennalls to get her CBE...My God 😁

She's a vicar in the Church of England. The Archbishop of Canterbury was probably looking at that aspect of her life rather than anything else. Besides, given the utter tossers that get these gongs, he might have just assumed she was going to get one anyway.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

She's a vicar in the Church of England. The Archbishop of Canterbury was probably looking at that aspect of her life rather than anything else. Besides, given the utter tossers that get these gongs, he might have just assumed she was going to get one anyway.

That I know 👍

The Bishop needs flogging 😁

The real piss take is the "utter tossers" who feed like locusts on the public purse which the Bishop must be aware of and yet he's ringing the bell for her.

Oliver Cromwell will be turning in his grave 😁

 

[Stive Pesley]

14 hours ago, Grumpy Git said:

A bit more evidence of corporate greed in overdrive here:

https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/15/free-money-executives-at-failing-train-company-joke-about-making-money-at-the-taxpayers-expense/

Jesus!

and the best they can do in reply is

Quote

An Avanti West Coast spokesperson said: “These slides were an attempt to explain how the Service Quality Regime works to some of our colleagues, but the language used was regrettable.

I get all the arguments for privatised public services, but surely even those who are pro the idea have to admit that the current implementation of the model doesn't work for us? The idea that they can take tax-payers money, and then fail but it doesn't matter because they get bailed out by more tax-payers money is ludicrous. 

[Wolfie]

16 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I get all the arguments for privatised public services, but surely even those who are pro the idea have to admit that the current implementation of the model doesn't work for us? The idea that they can take tax-payers money, and then fail but it doesn't matter because they get bailed out by more tax-payers money is ludicrous. 

Agreed but to me it just comes back to the issue on the other thread as well about shambolic public procurement. Who drew up these terrible one sided contracts in the first place?. You can't blame any organisation for operating according to the contract they've signed with DfT or Treasury or whoever.

If it's the case that the contracts have got to be that attractive in order to attract bidders, then that surely must say something about whether the private sector should be involved in the first place - or at least it shows that there's very little or no competition between prospective train operators who want to operate the services.

[Grumpy Git]

I can't remember the actual figures, but the privitised railway operators get something like 5x the subsidies in real terms than the old British Rail.

But it's perfectly acceptable now, as that money is being trousered by shareholders!!!

[ram59]

16 hours ago, Grumpy Git said:

In no attempt whatsoever to de-politicise this, anyone working class votes precisely for this scenario when they put their X in the Tory box, (no matter how much they want to deny it).

Tugging forelocks is optional.

 

A bit more evidence of corporate greed in overdrive here:

https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/15/free-money-executives-at-failing-train-company-joke-about-making-money-at-the-taxpayers-expense/

It may have failed to catch your attention that the installation, problems and first prosecutions and lying in courts happened under the Blair/Brown governments. It's well documented that they knew about it, but didn't want to upset the 'applecart'.

Unfortunately, rarely do we have box to tick, whereby we get a politician who looks after us first and foremost.

[SSD]

What gripes me about this awful scandal is people at the top of the tree really think chucking financial compensation at the victims is the way to resolve the problem. Some of the folks affected are mentally ruined or even worse have ended their own lives over this disgusting farce. But here's a few quid to say sorry. Absolutely horrible. 

This isn't specifically political, it's been happening for decades. Top brass on all sides are terrible at procurement, public money thrown down the bottomless pit. As per usual, they always pick the cheapest option and it doesn't matter about quality of the product. Happens in all sectors. Even in my workplace, once a contract runs out they'll always pick the lowest bidder and then chuck loads of cash at the problem for the next 5 years once it all falls to piece.

The difference here is the all parties involved refused to be accountable at it has destroyed lives. These folks were trusted members of local communities ruined by technology which they did not choose and their employer lying about the problems. People within the Post Office should go to prison for blatantly lying to government and their employees but of course that won't happen.