David Clowes mid term report

[Tyler Durden]

57 minutes ago, WilkoRam said:

I don’t think anyone criticises DC for appointing PW. Maybe the length of the contract but that’s hindsight because of how things are working out.

 

He basically went down the Spurs after Poch route. He traded a style over what seemed on paper as an almost guarantee of success. It hasn’t worked, if he decides to sack PW he has to decide whether to go down the “proven” route again or to look at the style of play etc. 

You should scan the forum my friend and see the complaints from some members about getting rid of Rosenoir and getting Warne in....

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, hintonsboots said:

He may have had a 2 year performance target, who knows. But following the mess due to Mel’s profligacy, I would have thought his contact would be packed with targets by DC/SP.

Wishful thinking on your part. Am sure that at the time DC said another club were in for Warne so if he had the pick of a couple of teams to manage then he was in the driving seat and really wasn't going to have his contract packed full of break clauses to suit the club. 

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Wishful thinking on your part. Am sure that at the time DC said another club were in for Warne so if he had the pick of a couple of teams to manage then he was in the driving seat and really wasn't going to have his contract packed full of break clauses to suit the club. 

Yeah I wondered how we knew that there was other interest?

[TomTom92]

Not sure there’s a guaranteed plan to stop the same mistake happening again. I do think getting in a decent DoF would help but that won’t be appointed overnight. 
 
My pick would be to go for Warnock until the end of the season. That leaves DC and future DoF plenty of time to come up with a checklist to support the search for the next manager. Style of play, willingness to play youth, transfer acumen, player development, good egg or not etc.

[TomTom92]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yeah I wondered how we knew that there was other interest?

Believe Huddersfield were sniffing. Warne in an interview with David Prutton said that the Rotherham chairman asked him who had turned his head enough. Shame it was us.

Edited October 22, 2023 by TomTom92

[MackworthRamIsGod]

14 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Not sure there’s a guaranteed plan to stop the same mistake happening again. I do think getting in a decent DoF would help but that won’t be appointed overnight. 
 
My pick would be to go for Warnock until the end of the season. That leaves DC and future DoF plenty of time to come up with a checklist to support the search for the next manager. Style of play, willingness to play youth, transfer acumen, player development, good egg or not etc.

Defo Warnock.

I think he would take us up, this season too..then at least stabilise us in the championship next season.

[trappatoni]

1 hour ago, WilkoRam said:

I don’t think anyone criticises DC for appointing PW. Maybe the length of the contract but that’s hindsight because of how things are working out.

 

 

I do.   We had a manager doing ok with a team built to play a certain way.  I saw no sense in not keeping Rosenior on and seeing where we were at the end of the season  and even less in turning to a long ball manager when we had a possession based squad and no real opportunity to change that until the Summer.   

 

 

[WilkoRam]

Fair enough it seems some people do blame him for it!

although it wasn’t a decision I would have made I don’t blame him. He went for someone who he thought knew the league and was a safe bet to get us up. 

In terms of what he does differently, I personally hope (if PW does go) he goes for their philosophy and style of play rather than just “results”

[Eddie]

11 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

David Clowes has made a grave mistake in hiring Warne as our manager in the first place and then compounded this error by granting him a 4 year contract to boot. 

Hindsight is always 20:20.

[hintonsboots]

54 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Why would Warne have accepted that from the stronger negotiating position? 

Because this job is the chance of a lifetime for Paul Warne. Massive fan base, a stadium, training ground and facilities of Premier League quality, along with a Cat 1 academy. Clowes had a very good negotiating position. Don’t you remember the look on Warnes face when he first looked around? Like a man who had won the lottery.

[hintonsboots]

53 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Wishful thinking on your part. Am sure that at the time DC said another club were in for Warne so if he had the pick of a couple of teams to manage then he was in the driving seat and really wasn't going to have his contract packed full of break clauses to suit the club. 

I respect your opinion, but it’s all guesswork. Only DC/ SP plus Warne and his agent know what is in his contract.

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Because this job is the chance of a lifetime for Paul Warne. Massive fan base, a stadium, training ground and facilities of Premier League quality, along with a Cat 1 academy. Clowes had a very good negotiating position. Don’t you remember the look on Warnes face when he first looked around? Like a man who had won the lottery.

The words of a fan, rather than grounded in reality I think.

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

The words of a fan, rather than grounded in reality I think.

Well it is a fans forum.

[Raich Carter]

Not sure I buy this 'the club is too big for PW' thing. We're not Man U with all the media coverage, superstars egos, etc. We're just a normal L1 club with a bigger following and better facilities so don't see how that comes into it.

FWIW I suspect DC will stick with him unless it gets really bad in terms of results or if he loses the dressing room. I imagine PW can be quite volatile when pushed (he strikes me as a seat-of-the-pants guy in some regard) so if the pressure gets to him, can see him losing it which could go either way.

[Tombo]

17 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Wishful thinking on your part. Am sure that at the time DC said another club were in for Warne so if he had the pick of a couple of teams to manage then he was in the driving seat and really wasn't going to have his contract packed full of break clauses to suit the club. 

I agree with you, but then that's not the right way to do business really is it?

If his demands don't fit what we want, we don't hire him. Nobody is bigger than the club and its strategy.

Put simply, if we wanted to have a manager's contract with break clauses and performance targets, we would have had one. It just might not have been Paul Warne... (if only)

[jimtastic56]

We do not know what David Clowes set as a target for Warne in his first 2 seasons . Was it to stabilise the club financialy by not buying any players and make sure we don’t get relegated? If the target was automatic this season with League 1 being so Weak , Warne’s in trouble . Has Clowes a plan if we lose to Exeter tomorrow? A new manager is usually appointed quickly so is David contacting agents just in case ? We have no idea how D C is thinking .

[lrm14]

On 22/10/2023 at 10:12, Tyler Durden said:

That's just business speak Roy, I tried to ask a genuine question without getting bogged down in arguments - what will DC do differently next time to ensure that the next manager is more successful than PW?

Perhaps take into account the style of play and the peak that a manager has reached in the past through either playing or managing I'd say. I don't know though because I think the decision to go with Warne wasn't a bad one because of Warne, I've always felt it was a bad one purely because we were replacing Rosenior with him. On the surface level it was a smart hire with a proven track record at this level but dometimes managers just don't work out for whatever reason. Paul Cook at Ipswich seemed a superb appointment a few years ago and he only lasted 9 months.

If we do move on from Warne soon then at the very least I hope it's someone with a more progressive style.

[europia]

On 22/10/2023 at 20:39, hintonsboots said:

I was wondering what David Clowes thinks of it so far.

That is indeed a very good question. Particularly when you consider that Mr Clowes is probably considered a reluctant football club owner, who only took the plunge through the fear of the DCFC becoming extinct. This is in stark contrast to the majority of club owners who get involved for financial reasons, or to embark on an ego trip.

Being a different character or having different motivations to the rest, obviously doesn't exclude one from making similar mistakes regarding managerial appointments etc. It's the response to those mistakes / challenges that will be defining. 

[Carl Sagan]

Clowes has done well and kept out of the limelight. Seems a decent owner, quite "values-driven". I'm not convinced that's a way to succeed in football, but it reflects well on him. When we weren't making progress under Rosenior, he took the  necessary step to end the experiment and relieve the coach of a temporary position. On the surface Warne seemed a sensible appointment. Four years is a very long time in football, and it was naive of Clowes and perhaps his first mistake. But not too problematic had we gone forward. Alas we're in full reverse gear, the club starting to disintegrate on the playing side. 

Many said Clowes would decide Warne's fate at the end of October. I thought that was taking too long, but it seems to be how it's panning out and I understand the owner's hope, even if forlorn. There's no logical reason to think anything is going to change. For me Warne is now a dead man walking and it's only a matter of time.

A criticism of the club Clowes is building is there's insufficient insider football knowledge. Warne doesn't have any contacts and profile and there's no one else in a formal role at the club to help with that. I think that's what I want to see Clowes rectify with his next appointment. As an example, if McClaren genuinely wanted the job and would take it seriously, I'd suggest him as Director of Football with someone like Steve Round as manager. 

Overall Clowes has done loads right and little wrong, so he gets something like 8.5/10 in his midterm report. As well as all our thanks.

[trappatoni]

On 22/10/2023 at 21:47, Eddie said:

Hindsight is always 20:20.

I know it's not my quote you've responded to but said it at the time - it was an unnecessary change to a manager who was bound to be unpopular unless he got instant results because there is nothing else about his football to like - and most people questioned the 4 year contract even if they thought Warne was a good appointment.