Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Reading through the threads the discussions about Warne as a manager now have been superceded by another talking point which people discussing Warnes abilities as a manager seem reticent to broach. The elephant in the room is basically that David Clowes has made a grave mistake in hiring Warne as our manager in the first place and then compounded this error by granting him a 4 year contract to boot. There is also talk about whether Clowes can afford to bullet Warne and his backroom staff, which none of us categorically know, or that there's no action on this as Clowes simple doesn't deem this appropriate at this point. If you follow my first point to its logical conclusion then if Clowes were to bullet Warne then what would happen differently in the future to ensure that the next manager wasn't as disliked as Warne? Or what guarantees would there be that the next manager would be more successful in parentheses then Warne has been to this date. Warne will also have been recruited against some preferred profile I imagine the 3 promotions from League 1 would have ticked a lot of boxes with Clowes but now reading the room of this forum that judgement doesn't seem to be valid anymore in supporters eyes so going forward what differently happens? What guarantee of success will Clowes have the next manager he chooses if Warne does go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: What guarantee of success will Clowes have the next manager he chooses if Warne does go? #none #zilch #nada #sweetfa #nature of the beast #takes a brave man... #etc Chester40, Tyler Durden and Tamworthram 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Every chairman or owner will make bad appointments. even Tony Bloom who can seem to do no wrong at the minute appointed Sami Hyypia as manager and went through a number of managers until he landed on the current run of decent managers. RoyMac5 and lrm14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, tinman said: Every chairman or owner will make bad appointments. even Tony Bloom who can seem to do no wrong at the minute appointed Sami Hyypia as manager and went through a number of managers until he landed on the current run of decent managers. So what will DC do differently next time to ensure he doesn't make another bad appointment to quote yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, tinman said: Every chairman or owner will make bad appointments. even Tony Bloom who can seem to do no wrong at the minute appointed Sami Hyypia as manager and went through a number of managers until he landed on the current run of decent managers. Yes, the error is not in appointing Warne but in not assessing the situation and recognising he's not going to make the KPIs agreed. So we move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 No idea, but he’s now twelve months wiser in the football world. With more football experience in the club with Mark Thomas and that will open up channels and external agencies to help make the appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Yes, the error is not in appointing Warne but in not assessing the situation and recognising he's not going to make the KPIs agreed. So we move on. So what does DC do differently to make sure that this does happen for the next manager? Am assuming the due diligence in recruiting Warne was his track record of 3 promotions from League 1 so if this isn't a guarantee of success what will be for the next candidate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, Tyler Durden said: So what does DC do differently to make sure that this does happen for the next manager? Am assuming the due diligence in recruiting Warne was his track record of 3 promotions from League 1 so if this isn't a guarantee of success what will be for the next candidate? The man is an experienced businessman, he will act like one. He will recognise that running a football club is more than just 'wishes', he doesn't wish to keep replacing the manager but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 I think there was some logic in appointing Warne based on his experience of League One but I was in the Rosenior camp, for continuity if nothing else. Warne will have had an idea of the players he wanted to get us promoted. He could justifiably say we didn’t get promotion last year because it wasn’t his team. We brought players in but not always at the quality we would like but we did so with 3–5-2 in mind, a decision which failed. We are playing worse football than last year. Warne needs to find answers quickly. Clowes is a rams fan and can’t be enjoying watching football at the moment. lrm14, BathRam72, Steve How Hard? and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: The man is an experienced businessman, he will act like one. He will recognise that running a football club is more than just 'wishes', he doesn't wish to keep replacing the manager but... That's just business speak Roy, I tried to ask a genuine question without getting bogged down in arguments - what will DC do differently next time to ensure that the next manager is more successful than PW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 If I was David Clowes, I would have appointed Paul Warne too if he was available. Fantastic track record in this division. On paper he's a great candidate. I blame the manager for not stepping up, for clearly not being able to transfer his management skills to a big club. He's the one who purposely picked buying older free agents on bigger wages, for having about 8 full backs, with his 5 at the back system failing miserably and not getting the most out of a really strong core of a team. I completely lay the blame at the manager's door. He wanted the challenge of managing a bigger club and he's proven to most supporters that he can't cut it. Turnstile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, SSD said: If I was David Clowes, I would have appointed Paul Warne too if he was available. Fantastic track record in this division. On paper he's a great candidate. I blame the manager for not stepping up, for clearly not being able to transfer his management skills to a big club. He's the one who purposely picked buying older free agents on bigger wages, for having about 8 full backs, with his 5 at the back system failing miserably and not getting the most out of a really strong core of a team. I completely lay the blame at the manager's door. He wanted the challenge of managing a bigger club and he's proven to most supporters that he can't cut it. Without playing devil's advocate for once maybe Warne hasn't stepped up as that's the level he's on? And we are getting what we paid for basically when we recruited him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Another viewpoint on Clowes recruitment: lrm14, twinkletoes, Carl Sagan and 4 others 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Lying awake last night after one of the most dreadful days of sport I can remember, Cricket, Rugby ( although we showed some fight) and another Rams TV horror show, I was wondering what David Clowes thinks of it so far. In a parallel universe he could be a member on this Forum, and I would suggest he’d be in the Warne out camp. There must be some break clauses in the contract, but most probably the end of this season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, hintonsboots said: Lying awake last night after one of the most dreadful days of sport I can remember, Cricket, Rugby ( although we showed some fight) and another Rams TV horror show, I was wondering what David Clowes thinks of it so far. In a parallel universe he could be a member on this Forum, and I would suggest he’d be in the Warne out camp. There must be some break clauses in the contract, but most probably the end of this season ? Why would there be a break clause? We approached Warne who was doing well at another club, the negotiations would largely have been favourable for him, I can't see any reason why he would agree to that. He'll get a substantial pay out if fired. Rev, Tamworthram and Ram-Alf 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Andicis said: Why would there be a break clause? We approached Warne who was doing well at another club, the negotiations would largely have been favourable for him, I can't see any reason why he would agree to that. He'll get a substantial pay out if fired. He may have had a 2 year performance target, who knows. But following the mess due to Mel’s profligacy, I would have thought his contact would be packed with targets by DC/SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 I don’t think anyone criticises DC for appointing PW. Maybe the length of the contract but that’s hindsight because of how things are working out. He basically went down the Spurs after Poch route. He traded a style over what seemed on paper as an almost guarantee of success. It hasn’t worked, if he decides to sack PW he has to decide whether to go down the “proven” route again or to look at the style of play etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 DW didn't make a mistake in appointing Paul Warne, he made a mistake appointing him for 4 years, which given everything that happened previously was daft. Had Paul stepped up and done well the contract wouldn't be an issue, clearly we are blessed with hindsight. Warne unfortunately just hasn't stepped up to what is needed and expected to run a club the size of Derby. I'm sure Clowes is as disappointed as the fans, but clearly there isn't anything he can do. Just watch and hope to god Washington starts scoring a shed load of goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 56 minutes ago, hintonsboots said: He may have had a 2 year performance target, who knows. But following the mess due to Mel’s profligacy, I would have thought his contact would be packed with targets by DC/SP. Why would Warne have accepted that from the stronger negotiating position? jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 58 minutes ago, hintonsboots said: He may have had a 2 year performance target, who knows. But following the mess due to Mel’s profligacy, I would have thought his contact would be packed with targets by DC/SP. Obviously none of us know but I’d be surprised if such performance targets (that would enable a club to get rid of a manager based on results without paying compensation) exist in football manager’s contracts. 🤷🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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