Warne Out Out

[Barney1991]

5 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Like when he went on and on about that player who wanted a championship move. And on and on about people in football who "lie" (was that about Rhodes?)

It just made us look a bit tinpot. If we miss out on a target, just keep your mouth shut and move on.

I also find it a bit ironic that he says so much all the time about things, digs at other clubs, refs, his own players, then has an issue when fans have an opinion on him.

He likes to model himself as "Mr nice guy" but he's happy to open his mouth when it suits him.

FWIW I still thinks he's a decent bloke, just let's his emotions run away with him sometimes.

Don’t forget about the players who turned him down in championship to play for us in league 1 last year. 

[Ghost of Clough]

New signings who have missed less league games this season than last season: Nelson, Waghorn, Nyambe, Fornah, Washington, Wilson, Bradley, Vickers

New signings who have missed more league games this season than last season: Ward, Elder, Embleton, John-Jules

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, CongletonRam said:

That is what the club needs...stability. Given time, and hopefully some real money; I remain very confident that PW will succeed.　

 

Where does stability come from though? Doesn’t stability overwhelmingly involve the owner and how money is spent? We could change manager and if it went badly we would remain in the very stable position of being a mid table L1 team. Why does keeping Warne determine stability?

[CongletonRam]

9 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Warne signed the ageing journeyman professionals? He refuses to use our academy or sign younger players. That's on him, in what way is that a good defense for him? 

Nobody is suggesting chucking money around, more making the best of the money we have available, which we aren't doing, and making the best of the squad available, which we aren't doing. Stability is not alienating the fans. And if this continues that is what is going to happen.

If he refuses to use the academy; then I trust the judgement of his backroom team. If he thinks they are good enough; he will use them.

He has accepted and now said that he wants to bring some younger players into the team and I believe we will see that happen in January. I have a degree of sympathy/empathy for PW in the pre-season transfers. There were players he identified and was unable to get, and he wasn't able to bring in a striker.

However, I agree that PW is not getting the best out of this squad, but I still maintain that our current squad is a play-off potential squad at best. I really do. We are devoid of any ideas, any creativity, any clear system, and to me we appear lethargic. That is all on PW.

However; this is about those fans that are demanding PW gone. Explain to me the cost implications involved in replacing an entire management team. It does not make sense purely from a business perspective. It's way too early to be considering PW gone. Clowes can review the performance towards the end of this season and then make a decision. Coming out publicly and backing Warne is quite likely our owner also reminding PW that he is listening to the fans or certainly giving out that rhetoric.

[KBB]

How would people feel about Warne if he stopped playing some the "journey men" and senior players and publicly said we are trying to use the youth and create an exciting young dynamic team

A midfield and forward line of

 ======Bird ===== Robinson

Wilson ===== tommo ====== sibley

========== brown ========

Obviously positions would change ie. Sibley as a 10

Would people be happy to let that team take the field in key games?

 

[Jimbo Ram]

To be honest with you, I am Warne out with the whole discussion 😊 Looks like he is staying at least in the short term so a case of seeing what happens I think.

[May Contain Nuts]

Sticking with Warne is like those times you decide to cut your own hair and think you've set the clippers to grade 3, but on the first pass through you realise that, to your horror, you've forgotten to put on the guide comb and  you've just given yourself an unsightly bald patch

The only act of recourse open to you is shaving the rest of your head completely bald and hoping for the best, and/or convincing yourself that it actually suits you.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Caerphilly Ram]

8 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Warne signed the ageing journeyman professionals? He refuses to use our academy or sign younger players. That's on him, in what way is that a good defense for him? 

 

This isn’t accurate. I agree there were some other young options we could have signed for free in the summer as I was quite active in listing some of them at the time, but Warne hasn’t filled the squad with ageing journeymen as some like to claim, these are the signings we made and their age when joining. Two thirds of them being under 30 ;

John-Jules 22

Wilson 23

Fornah 23

Embleton 23

Nyambe 25

Ward 27

Vickers 27

Elder 28

Nelson 30

Washington 31

Bradley 31

Waghorn 33

During his time at Rotherham he also signed younger players like Ogbene and Barlaser when they were 22, Olusunde when he was 21, Crooks when he was 24, Harding when he was 23, Johansson when he was 21…. It links more to what @Ghost of Clough said earlier in that I think Warne has to trust that player to do the job he wants them to. There’s an improvement many would like to see with the integration of academy players, but if Warne thinks/knows they’re good enough then he will give them a chance, there is evidence he trusts younger players from both his time here and at Rotherham. 
This isn’t a post defending Warne as such, more fact checking the assertion that he doesn’t use younger players. 

[Ian Buxton's Bat]

I watched the u21s v Man City at the weekend and they played well, won and impressed me.

Brown looked like a bloke playing in a lad's game but when I've seen him play for the 1st team he's looked like a lad playing in a bloke's game.

I'm no scout so can't say who's ready and who's not but when I nipped out to Estonia in the afto to watch the Stevenage game I didn't think any of the u21's would have been ready for that battle.

I'd rather be watching a load of kids over-performing and being mid table in League 1 than a load of seasoned pros under-performing and being just below the play-offs but I think we have to accept that the young players who could have come through and hit the ground running are now elsewhere because we had to sell them to survive.

[Kathcairns]

2 hours ago, CongletonRam said:

I am of the opinion that if you did a poll of all Derby fans, the majority would still be backing PW.

I still believe that many of the supporters wanting Warne out are those young, rather naive fans who would turn their back on the team in a heartbeat. The instant success that comes with young minds.

Either way, it's something of a mute point as it's music to my ears when out owner comers out and fully backs the manager.

That is what the club needs...stability. Given time, and hopefully some real money; I remain very confident that PW will succeed.　

 

Clowes has got my full backing whatever he does,but ive been a fan since 1968 and can honestly say ive never been as cant be bothered to go as i am now( .will still be there though). Never been one for sacking managers and was not a Warne fan when appointed but was willing to back him, but getting very close to wanting him gone. I think if he does get us promoted to the championship he will not take us any further, but i will be there tonight supporting my team.

[Srg]

1 hour ago, KBB said:

How would people feel about Warne if he stopped playing some the "journey men" and senior players and publicly said we are trying to use the youth and create an exciting young dynamic team

A midfield and forward line of

 ======Bird ===== Robinson

Wilson ===== tommo ====== sibley

========== brown ========

Obviously positions would change ie. Sibley as a 10

Would people be happy to let that team take the field in key games?

 

Over what we currently get? Yes, every time.

But there has to be an in between, not an all or literally nothing as we are getting now.

[Ghost of Clough]

19 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

This isn’t accurate. I agree there were some other young options we could have signed for free in the summer as I was quite active in listing some of them at the time, but Warne hasn’t filled the squad with ageing journeymen as some like to claim, these are the signings we made and their age when joining. Two thirds of them being under 30 ;

John-Jules 22

Wilson 23

Fornah 23

Embleton 23

Nyambe 25

Ward 27

Vickers 27

Elder 28

Nelson 30

Washington 31

Bradley 31

Waghorn 33

During his time at Rotherham he also signed younger players like Ogbene and Barlaser when they were 22, Olusunde when he was 21, Crooks when he was 24, Harding when he was 23, Johansson when he was 21…. It links more to what @Ghost of Clough said earlier in that I think Warne has to trust that player to do the job he wants them to. There’s an improvement many would like to see with the integration of academy players, but if Warne thinks/knows they’re good enough then he will give them a chance, there is evidence he trusts younger players from both his time here and at Rotherham. 
This isn’t a post defending Warne as such, more fact checking the assertion that he doesn’t use younger players. 

Throughout his time at Rotherham, he slowly stopped signing younger players. So much so, that not a single league minute was given to players under 21 when they were last promoted in 21/22. There's also a reason why our only loanees so far this season are 22 and 24.

[RedSox]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

This isn’t accurate. I agree there were some other young options we could have signed for free in the summer as I was quite active in listing some of them at the time, but Warne hasn’t filled the squad with ageing journeymen as some like to claim, these are the signings we made and their age when joining.......
......This isn’t a post defending Warne as such, more fact checking the assertion that he doesn’t use younger players. 

And for all we know, he and his team may have lined up several other youngsters in the Summer, only to be thwarted by the lack of finances to complete the deals.  Who knows, maybe the budget we thought we were going to have at the start of Summer, changed as a result of some unforseen costs/changes that broadsided us and changed PW's plans, resulting in some of the ageing recruits arriving?  This, from a marginally 'Warne Out' voter, btw. 

We don't know what we don't know!   😕

[jimtastic56]

2 hours ago, Barney1991 said:

Don’t forget about the players who turned him down in championship to play for us in league 1 last year. 

We were paying £500,000 + per annum. Which isn’t bad in the Championship. Just makes you wonder what Jordan Rhodes wanted per week? 

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Throughout his time at Rotherham, he slowly stopped signing younger players. So much so, that not a single league minute was given to players under 21 when they were last promoted in 21/22. There's also a reason why our only loanees so far this season are 22 and 24.

Although I am prepared to put that down to Rotherham being a smaller club so the needs of the now are always more pressing than the needs of the future at Rotherham, it does show a complete lack of experience in bringing young players through - it's not to say he can't or won't but it does suggest it's not a priority for him.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Throughout his time at Rotherham, he slowly stopped signing younger players. So much so, that not a single league minute was given to players under 21 when they were last promoted in 21/22. There's also a reason why our only loanees so far this season are 22 and 24.

He did try in January.  But wound up with Springett who played 2 games and a supposed Spurs wonder kid who's know signed for Stevenage on a permanent and not kicked a ball.

[Walkley Ram]

9 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Although I am prepared to put that down to Rotherham being a smaller club so the needs of the now are always more pressing than the needs of the future at Rotherham, it does show a complete lack of experience in bringing young players through - it's not to say he can't or won't but it does suggest it's not a priority for him.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rotherham-united/jugendarbeit/verein/1194

According to this, they've only ever produced 4 players that have made over 100 appearances in total. One of those was Shaun Barker.

[Ram@Lincoln]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Throughout his time at Rotherham, he slowly stopped signing younger players. So much so, that not a single league minute was given to players under 21 when they were last promoted in 21/22. There's also a reason why our only loanees so far this season are 22 and 24.

Would we want more young kids like Springett, White and Osula? They showed they couldn't hack it in the league last season against the better teams, or any at all The better loans will be those on their 2nd or 3rd loan out, so naturally will be older.

Look back to the wonder loans Lampard brought in, Wilson and Tomori were both on their third loans - Mount on his second after playing a star role at Vitesse who finished 6th in the Dutch top league and in the Europa League play offs. Even disputedly our best ever loan signing Leon Osman was on his 2nd loan when he came to us. Jordon Ibe was a second loan, Bamford was a third loan. Wisdom was a first loan but had played 22 times already for Liverpool, majority in the Premiership so was well versed. 

We need players who will make a difference to the squad, if we're just signing kids to sit on the bench and not play ala Springett then that seat might aswell be taken by one of our own.

[Jubbs]

24 minutes ago, Ram@Lincoln said:

Osula

I think to say Osula is incredibly harsh. 5 goals and 1 assist in 6 starts. In all competitions for us, he scored 0.65 goals per 90.

[Caerphilly Ram]

43 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Throughout his time at Rotherham, he slowly stopped signing younger players. So much so, that not a single league minute was given to players under 21 when they were last promoted in 21/22. There's also a reason why our only loanees so far this season are 22 and 24.

But he DID sign and play players younger than pension age, right? That’s the point I’m making. Not the trends, not the patterns, not the assumptions, just looking at the fact he did sign players for us and Rotherham who are under 30 and he has given minutes to those players. 

I can see and understand the concerns you and others raise around academy minutes, with the caveat that Warne has to live and die by those decisions in a way us fans don’t. I just don’t get what I perceive as a falsehood that he only signs old journeymen and former Rotherham players.