Will Clowes patience soon run out?

[OoooMarkWright]

27 minutes ago, Monty said:

Yep DC had/has a four year plan and we're only one year and a bit into it. I didn't particularly see it as a thrilling appointment to take us into a new era more of a reduced risk safe pair of hands. There seems to be as much negative comment about the style of football rather than accruing points - personally I don't care so much about how we play as long as we win and get out of L1. Hoofball for a season or two will be fine as long as we get promoted. I appreciate I may be in the minority though       

Winning football top trumps style of football for me too. The problem now is we’re not winning and as soon as that happens playing the way we are cracks appear. Same happened under Rowett. We were top 2 at Christmas and then it went south. The football was similar but results weren’t and the pressure built. Warne is protected by the contract. Can’t see us doing anything, so we have to grin and bear it. Could be a long winter. 

[FlyBritishMidland]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

This is partly my thinking. I’ve been patient and looked to be balanced in my views on Warne although I tend to be more on the optimistic side. However I can only see a miraculous turnaround of both performances and results winning some back over, and even then it’ll be on very limited terms, one or two signs of things slipping back to how they currently are would see people turn again quite quickly. Do I think that miraculous turnaround will happen? No, not on current evidence… meaning it’s probably turning into a matter of when not if. 
 

 

That’s pretty much how I see it.  1 point from the last 2 away games, bearing in mind who played, isn’t good enough.  I think the next 4 games before the next international break are crucial and could be decisive. I reckon we need at least 9 points, maybe 10, from them and be in the top 6.  We need to start winning at home as the away form was never going to continue.

I like Warne and really want him to do well and I also want some stability with no continual changes.  But I have to admit, I’m starting to have doubts.  As Warne himself said in the Moment of Truth podcast, fans sack managers, not chairman.  The number of dissenters is growing and wins are needed fast.

[nottingram]

31 minutes ago, Big Trav said:

No it won’t happen soon 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

That’s pretty much how I see it.  1 point from the last 2 away games, bearing in mind who played, isn’t good enough.  I think the next 4 games before the next international break are crucial and could be decisive. I reckon we need at least 9 points, maybe 10, from them and be in the top 6.  We need to start winning at home as the away form was never going to continue.

I like Warne and really want him to do well and I also want some stability with no continual changes.  But I have to admit, I’m starting to have doubts.  As Warne himself said in the Moment of Truth podcast, fans sack managers, not chairman.  The number of dissenters is growing and wins are needed fast.

To me that just means the 'chairman' doesn't have the needed guts to make a tough decision, but will make a decision and say 'the fans made me do it'. I hope that's not the type of leadership we have at Derby.

[FlyBritishMidland]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

To me that just means the 'chairman' doesn't have the needed guts to make a tough decision, but will make a decision and say 'the fans made me do it'. I hope that's not the type of leadership we have at Derby.

I don’t read it like that and I don’t think that’s the sort of leadership we have. I think David Clowes knows a thing or two about making critical decisions in a tough environment.  I think what Warne was hinting at it supporter unrest maybe a factor, but obviously not the only one.  A manager is rarely sacked when things are going well, unless your MM of course 😉.

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I don’t read it like that and I don’t think that’s the sort of leadership we have. I think David Clowes knows a thing or two about making critical decisions in a tough environment.  I think what Warne was hinting at it supporter unrest maybe a factor, but obviously not the only one.  A manager is rarely sacked when things are going well, unless your MM of course 😉.

The business was his dad's business though, not sure how many tough decisions Clowes jnr has made? But more importantly what does he know about running a football club? Mel didn't sack many towards the end of his reign. Rowett and Lampard poached and Cocu mutual. 😉 

[FlyBritishMidland]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The business was his dad's business though, not sure how many tough decisions Clowes jnr has made? But more importantly what does he know about running a football club? Mel didn't sack many towards the end of his reign. Rowett and Lampard poached and Cocu mutual. 😉 

He was a pilot though, so I’d say he’s used to making critical decisions and staying calm under pressure.  MM sacked Clement when we were in the playoffs and Mac 2 when he’d pretty much saved us from relegation all because Rowett became available.  And there was a lot of disbelief about both decisions.

[Caerphilly Ram]

33 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

To me that just means the 'chairman' doesn't have the needed guts to make a tough decision, but will make a decision and say 'the fans made me do it'. I hope that's not the type of leadership we have at Derby.

You could just as easily argue that he would be showing guts to stick to his mind despite growing noise from external sources. Just because a decision is or isn’t what we want as individuals or a collective, doesn’t necessarily define Clowes’ mettle. 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

You could just as easily argue that he would be showing guts to stick to his mind despite growing noise from external sources. Just because a decision is or isn’t what we want as individuals or a collective, doesn’t necessarily define Clowes’ mettle. 

He made the decision to replace Rosenior based on employing an 'expert'. Has he the nerve to sack his choice when it is plain as day it's plummeting - does he know how to pull the Club out of it's nosedive?! 😄

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, Monty said:

Eh? Did it? 'A fantastic appointment' was it perceived that way I don't seem to remember too much dancing in the streets. I do remember quite a lot of people were disappointed Rosenior left    

You have a selective memory.

Many of didn't want rosenior and welcomed a seasoned manager.

Just not necessarily the one we got

[Oldben]

Clowes spent a fortune buying the club out of bankruptcy. Would a priority be spending a lot buying out warnes contract

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Big Trav said:

The fact we haven’t got the kind of money to sack him and his crew 

...but as has been pointed out, he's states that if he gets serious opposition from the fans (more than a few d******* shouting verbals) he'll walk away.

I agree he won't be sacked, but will he stick to his word if it becomes more than some abusive, coked up morons at away games? 

[CongletonRam]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Then he's a fool.

 

How quickly things can turn.

The new owner saves Derby County and only one year later is called 'a fool'.

With supposed fans like you, who needs enemies.

[TomTom92]

Clowes has a big decision. Warne is a dead man walking with the fans, for me the tide has turned and unless he pulls a rabbit out the hat the inconsistent boring football will continue to harvest the toxic atmosphere.

But can Clowes afford to sack Warne? And if he can then surely the next appointment has to be the right one. Big pressure all of a sudden. 
 
I’d go Warnock and make this season a free hit. Then do some serious work getting a DoF in and lining up a ‘long term successor’. 
 
Think to go balls deep in the ‘long term’ option now would be one hell of a risk. 
 
This could all be nonsense though cus if we can’t afford to get rid then this season will just be a very messy, depressing affair.

[Ram-Alf]

17 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

You could just as easily argue that he would be showing guts to stick to his mind despite growing noise from external sources. Just because a decision is or isn’t what we want as individuals or a collective, doesn’t necessarily define Clowes’ mettle. 

Spot on.

It can be a bigger decision to keep him on than sack him, Money may or may not be the issue, DC sees PW most working days, He'll speak to him about how we're playing and why things are going wrong, DC is not just an owner...he a supporter since Childhood...he'll be concerned too, Especially after fan/player conflict.

The man who pays the Piper gets to call the tune 👍 

[Gerry Daly]

Let’s ask a different question. Let’s assume we stick with Warne and we finish 10th after a season of boring, mindless football. Will you renew your season ticket? 

[SSD]

I think most of us would have picked Paul Warne. On paper he's a perfect candidate. What isn't helping is the style of football. Pragmatic managers do not get time from supporters if things go wrong. The vast majority of fanbases won't put up with it.

I think it's a simple choice for him. If Warne doesn't achieve the objective of promotion then he's out the door. I think the manager acknowledged that anyway earlier in the season, even if it was said with some humour. The sensible thing, as much as I cannot stand the football, is to keep Warne until it genuinely look like a play off place is out of reach. Give it until the final third of the season. If we're still in midtable by then, start fresh and bring a new manager in to assess the squad before the summer.

I think that's fair.

Edited October 21, 2023 by SSD

[Ram-Alf]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

He made the decision to replace Rosenior based on employing an 'expert'. Has he the nerve to sack his choice when it is plain as day it's plummeting - does he know how to pull the Club out of it's nosedive?! 😄

The reason Rosenior was let go was because DC said "we had a duty of care" in layman's terms he didn't want Rosenior to jump out of the frying pan into the fire...or perhaps just not quite good enough in his opinion 🤷‍♂️ 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

Spot on.

It can be a bigger decision to keep him on than sack him, Money may or may not be the issue, DC sees PW most working days, He'll speak to him about how we're playing and why things are going wrong, DC is not just an owner...he a supporter since Childhood...he'll be concerned too, Especially after fan/player conflict.

The man who pays the Piper gets to call the tune 👍 

Spot on.

But what will Clowes see after more than a year into a plan to establish us in the Championship that makes him think he's on the right track? Will he make a difficult decision, which you suggest is keeping Warne on, or will he twist? We live in interesting times. #COYR

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

You have a selective memory.

Many of didn't want rosenior and welcomed a seasoned manager.

Just not necessarily the one we got

was it welcomed as a 'fantastic appointment' - I don't recall it was.  Not any 'seasoned manager' Paul Warne specifically thats the point