Corey Blackett-Taylor - Signed on Loan/Permanent in Summer

[Crewton]

19 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

Out of that lot Crewton i'd say both Joe Ward and Kane Wilson as both of them aint looking too good 😁

They're so fast that the camera can't pick them up Alf!

[duncanjwitham]

5 minutes ago, Crewton said:

So accepting that CBT is yet to make an impact, how many more on this list do you believe are struggling to make an impact?

Just Fornah, Embleton and TJJ in my view. Waggy and Wash are coming back from injuries sustained in the line of work but have generally made an impact when fit and selected, Vickers has done Ok as back up keeper, but every one of the others is proving their value now IMO.

What kind of success rate were you expecting when none of them cost a transfer fee?

We signed 11 outfielders in the summer, only 3 of them have started more than 15 league games (Nelson, Nyambe and Wilson).  Bradley is next on 12 and Ward on 10.  You aren't making an impact if you aren't getting on the pitch.  The players we've signed either seem to have persistent injury/fitness issues, or they aren't being selected over the players that were already here (most of whom also signed on frees).  Obviously you're not going to get every signing right, and not every player is signed with the intention of being a regular starter (I deliberately didn't include Vickers, for example) but if you get to mid-March and less than half your summer signings have hit double figures for starts, then that's really not a good sign.

[Srg]

Just now, duncanjwitham said:

We signed 11 outfielders in the summer, only 3 of them have started more than 15 league games (Nelson, Nyambe and Wilson).  Bradley is next on 12 and Ward on 10.  You aren't making an impact if you aren't getting on the pitch.  The players we've signed either seem to have persistent injury/fitness issues, or they aren't being selected over the players that were already here (most of whom also signed on frees).  Obviously you're not going to get every signing right, and not every player is signed with the intention of being a regular starter (I deliberately didn't include Vickers, for example) but if you get to mid-March and less than half your summer signings have hit double figures for starts, then that's really not a good sign.

We needed a squad of players, and we were shopping in the bargain bin for the most part. Do I think he tried some things which didn't really work? yes, Washington, for one example wasn't a great idea. I'd also say Bradley likely hasn't been worth what we're probably paying him, But given our restrictions, and I'd also make a good guess that some of those signed the previous summer are eating up a fair chunk of budget (Hourihane, Smith, Collins, Barkhuizen etc) which also likely made it tougher, especially when we really needed to get younger. Some of it has been slightly unlucky with injuries to Ward, Elder etc too which cut short any run in the team.

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, Srg said:

We needed a squad of players, and we were shopping in the bargain bin for the most part. Do I think he tried some things which didn't really work? yes, Washington, for one example wasn't a great idea. I'd also say Bradley likely hasn't been worth what we're probably paying him, But given our restrictions, and I'd also make a good guess that some of those signed the previous summer are eating up a fair chunk of budget (Hourihane, Smith, Collins, Barkhuizen etc) which also likely made it tougher, especially when we really needed to get younger. Some of it has been slightly unlucky with injuries to Ward, Elder etc too which cut short any run in the team.

Shopping in the bargain bin, yet the majority of those signings were playing in the Championship last season.  Only Ward and Wilson playing at this level, I think?

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Shopping in the bargain bin, yet the majority of those signings were playing in the Championship last season.  Only Ward and Wilson playing at this level, I think?

About as many were not as were. I already called out Washington and Bradley as being old and having injury issues. Elder has been a little unlucky here (although, can't say I've rated him on what I've seen). Nelson has played most games.

[duncanjwitham]

6 minutes ago, Srg said:

About as many were not as were. I already called out Washington and Bradley as being old and having injury issues. Elder has been a little unlucky here (although, can't say I've rated him on what I've seen). Nelson has played most games.

Having checked, 8 of the 11 played in the Championship last year.  Ward and TJJ were both in League one, but had played in the Championship the season before.  Wilson played 5 games in the Championship for Bristol City last season, but has only really had regular football at League one or below.  So almost all of the signings have played recently at a higher level than we're at.

The post I was replying to was basically implying that most of the summer signings had made a good impact on the team, so the fact you're calling out Washington, Bradley, aren't impressed with Elder, and think the rest are bargain bin signings, suggests we aren't too far apart.

The issue for me is the whole transfer policy seems to be all over the place.  We know Warne wants to play gas-out, high-intensity football, so signing so many over-30s and players who had injuries last seasons seems questionable.  And then we have stuff like seeming to recruit for a back 3 over the summer, then immediately switching to a back 4.  And then signing an expensive winger in January before immediately switching back to playing wingbacks.  I'm not necessarily blaming Warne for everything, but there's clearly something going wrong somewhere in the process.  And given we're going to have a major rebuild in the summer, no matter what league we're in, that needs serious thought IMO.

[Srg]

29 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Having checked, 8 of the 11 played in the Championship last year.  Ward and TJJ were both in League one, but had played in the Championship the season before.  Wilson played 5 games in the Championship for Bristol City last season, but has only really had regular football at League one or below.  So almost all of the signings have played recently at a higher level than we're at.

The post I was replying to was basically implying that most of the summer signings had made a good impact on the team, so the fact you're calling out Washington, Bradley, aren't impressed with Elder, and think the rest are bargain bin signings, suggests we aren't too far apart.

The issue for me is the whole transfer policy seems to be all over the place.  We know Warne wants to play gas-out, high-intensity football, so signing so many over-30s and players who had injuries last seasons seems questionable.  And then we have stuff like seeming to recruit for a back 3 over the summer, then immediately switching to a back 4.  And then signing an expensive winger in January before immediately switching back to playing wingbacks.  I'm not necessarily blaming Warne for everything, but there's clearly something going wrong somewhere in the process.  And given we're going to have a major rebuild in the summer, no matter what league we're in, that needs serious thought IMO.

I don't think we're vastly far apart on our assessment, but I do think I'm placing a bigger emphasis on our restrictions than you perhaps are which is likely where we are differing on levels of "blame".

Clearly signing younger, athletic attacking talent costs the most money and that's where we've struggled. Even, seemingly, finding some on loan - whether that's due to loan fees, wage contributions or a minutes guarantee. My main gripe would be leaving the squad so threadbare in that department... as much of a good guy as Waghorn is, was he really all we could do? Collins plus old/injured players in Washington, Waghorn and TJJ never looked enough, and so it proved.

Edited March 12 by Srg

[Crewton]

31 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

We signed 11 outfielders in the summer, only 3 of them have started more than 15 league games (Nelson, Nyambe and Wilson).  Bradley is next on 12 and Ward on 10.  You aren't making an impact if you aren't getting on the pitch.  The players we've signed either seem to have persistent injury/fitness issues, or they aren't being selected over the players that were already here (most of whom also signed on frees).  Obviously you're not going to get every signing right, and not every player is signed with the intention of being a regular starter (I deliberately didn't include Vickers, for example) but if you get to mid-March and less than half your summer signings have hit double figures for starts, then that's really not a good sign.

Ward lost about 3 months due to an opponent stamping on his heel. Washington damaged ligaments playing for Northern Ireland. Waghorn started 8 of the first 13 games, made the pitch in all the rest bar 1, scoring 6 goals, before first a hamstring injury and then a calf injury kept him out until recently. So there's 3 more who would have made more than 15 appearances had they not picked up injuries "at work". Even Elder has made 19 appearances including as substitute, Fornah 17 on the same basis. Only the two loan signings from the summer have made little or no impression thanks to injuries and you can blame the manager for accepting them as signings if you want to.

To me, it's fair to say that our recruitment has been patchy and it's taken time to bear fruit, but now all but those unfortunate young loanees and those we are awaiting a return from legitimate injuries are contributing and filling squad gaps when required. This year wasn't about signing a entire new first XI, it was about filling gaps left by departees in both first XI and squad and strengthening where possible. The lack of a direct replacement for Collins is for me the only real failure, but by happy accident we've signed a different kind of striker who may just fire us to promotion.

[duncanjwitham]

13 minutes ago, Srg said:

I don't think we're vastly far apart on our assessment, but I do think I'm placing a bigger emphasis on our restrictions than you perhaps are which is likely where we are differing on levels of "blame".

Clearly signing younger, athletic attacking talent costs the most money and that's where we've struggled. Even, seemingly, finding some on loan - whether that's due to loan fees, wage contributions or a minutes guarantee. My main gripe would be leaving the squad so threadbare in that department... as much of a good guy as Waghorn is, was he really all we could do? Collins plus old/injured players in Washington, Waghorn and TJJ never looked enough, and so it proved.

That's the weird thing about it all.  We have a big squad (somewhere between ~22-27 players, depending if/how you include the likes of Loach, Embleton, TJJ, Rooney, Gayle etc), yet we're threadbare in a lot of key areas, and have overplayed our starters again.  Maybe we'd have been better off focussing less on sheer number of players and tried to get in a few better ones, and trust the academy to pick up the slack.  It's almost like we decided we needed lots of players because we know the way we play causes fitness/injury issues, but the net result of that is that we've signed a bunch of unfit/injury-prone players and made the problem even worse.

32 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Ward lost about 3 months due to an opponent stamping on his heel. Washington damaged ligaments playing for Northern Ireland. Waghorn started 8 of the first 13 games, made the pitch in all the rest bar 1, scoring 6 goals, before first a hamstring injury and then a calf injury kept him out until recently. So there's 3 more who would have made more than 15 appearances had they not picked up injuries "at work". Even Elder has made 19 appearances including as substitute, Fornah 17 on the same basis. Only the two loan signings from the summer have made little or no impression thanks to injuries and you can blame the manager for accepting them as signings if you want to.

To me, it's fair to say that our recruitment has been patchy and it's taken time to bear fruit, but now all but those unfortunate young loanees and those we are awaiting a return from legitimate injuries are contributing and filling squad gaps when required. This year wasn't about signing a entire new first XI, it was about filling gaps left by departees in both first XI and squad and strengthening where possible. The lack of a direct replacement for Collins is for me the only real failure, but by happy accident we've signed a different kind of striker who may just fire us to promotion.

The question you asked was which players haven't made an impact.  They aren't making an impact if they're injured.  Yes some of it is unlucky, but if you sign a bunch of players who are old or who have had recent injury problems, it shouldn't be surprising when they get injured.

Joe Ward has been fit since the end of October so it's not like he's missed the whole season.  He didn't even make the bench 3 and 4 games ago, and has 1 assist in 16 appearances.  He's supposed to be a specialist crosser in a team that crosses a lot.  In fact, Craig Forsyth has more goals+assists than Ward, Wilson and Elder combined.  Washington has scored 3 goals, that's not the impact you'd expect from a striker.  Fornah has played 28 minutes of league football this calendar year.  I could go on.   We signed 11 outfield players, and Nelson is the only one who has really established a place in the team.  That's not good enough.

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

That's not good enough

We're in 2nd place and fielding an unchanged team featuring 5 Warne signings with 3 on the bench. Given that only one of them cost a transfer fee, I think it is good enough. If you expect significantly better, I suggest you may have to review your expectations.

[Premier ram]

Think the club have handled Coreys fitness really well, came on last night looked fitter , sharper and a threat , will be a vital part of the squad for the remaining games

[Comrade 86]

Is this a CBT thread? Hard to tell tbh 🙊

[jono]

On 12/03/2024 at 14:49, duncanjwitham said:

Having checked, 8 of the 11 played in the Championship last year.  Ward and TJJ were both in League one, but had played in the Championship the season before.  Wilson played 5 games in the Championship for Bristol City last season, but has only really had regular football at League one or below.  So almost all of the signings have played recently at a higher level than we're at.

The post I was replying to was basically implying that most of the summer signings had made a good impact on the team, so the fact you're calling out Washington, Bradley, aren't impressed with Elder, and think the rest are bargain bin signings, suggests we aren't too far apart.

The issue for me is the whole transfer policy seems to be all over the place.  We know Warne wants to play gas-out, high-intensity football, so signing so many over-30s and players who had injuries last seasons seems questionable.  And then we have stuff like seeming to recruit for a back 3 over the summer, then immediately switching to a back 4.  And then signing an expensive winger in January before immediately switching back to playing wingbacks.  I'm not necessarily blaming Warne for everything, but there's clearly something going wrong somewhere in the process.  And given we're going to have a major rebuild in the summer, no matter what league we're in, that needs serious thought IMO.

Of course you are forgetting that the transfer market is just like Amazon prime. You just describe the player you want and up come hundreds of possible purchases at £4.99 with delivery included and free returns. … until you realise you haven’t got PayPal or a credit card. 

[Turk Thrust]

19 hours ago, Premier ram said:

Think the club have handled Coreys fitness really well, came on last night looked fitter , sharper and a threat , will be a vital part of the squad for the remaining games

I think that each time he has come on, he has shown a little bit more of the quality he can bring in the run in.

[duncanjwitham]

1 hour ago, jono said:

Of course you are forgetting that the transfer market is just like Amazon prime. You just describe the player you want and up come hundreds of possible purchases at £4.99 with delivery included and free returns. … until you realise you haven’t got PayPal or a credit card. 

I'm not forgetting that at all, it's pretty much the entire point.  Players aren't fungible, you can't just buy them at random and drop them in and have it work, so you need to think about who you're signing and why.  We've signed a *lot* of players this season, and quite a few of them have struggled to make an impact (IMO anyway), so maybe we should be thinking about the process to try and stop that from happening next season?  You'll never get it right all the time of course, but that shouldn't stop the club trying to improve.  Just because we're second in the table doesn't mean we should shut down all critical analysis of the club, as some posters seem to think.

[Animal is a Ram]

On 12/03/2024 at 13:33, Crewton said:

So accepting that CBT is yet to make an impact, how many more on this list do you believe are struggling to make an impact?

Just Fornah, Embleton and TJJ in my view. Waggy and Wash are coming back from injuries sustained in the line of work but have generally made an impact when fit and selected, Vickers has done Ok as back up keeper, but every one of the others is proving their value now IMO.

What kind of success rate were you expecting when none of them cost a transfer fee?

Even then, Fornah and TJJ have made some significant contributions - TJJ with the only goal in the win away at Port Vale, and Fornah with the wonderful assist for NML at home to Bristol Rovers?

I'd agree with Embleton, though, but he barely got his feet under the table before a season-ending injury.

[jono]

4 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

I'm not forgetting that at all, it's pretty much the entire point.  Players aren't fungible, you can't just buy them at random and drop them in and have it work, so you need to think about who you're signing and why.  We've signed a *lot* of players this season, and quite a few of them have struggled to make an impact (IMO anyway), so maybe we should be thinking about the process to try and stop that from happening next season?  You'll never get it right all the time of course, but that shouldn't stop the club trying to improve.  Just because we're second in the table doesn't mean we should shut down all critical analysis of the club, as some posters seem to think.

Indeed, but considering where we were in squad terms, what we had available in money terms, who was/is actually for sale, I think we’ve done pretty well. Yes some predictable injuries, but we were aware of the possibility and tried to navigate round them .. the slow introduction of JJ for example. Sometimes these things work, sometimes they don’t, but sometimes these risks are taken because of the position we are in, not because of poor or ill judged recruitment.

I would suggest, considering where we were at and the money we have spent, that recruitment has been pretty reasonable if we look at the good, the not sure, and the “oh Tish” 

On CBT .. I am undecided and am hoping it is just bedding in, missing sharpness, knowing his teammates and role. Time will tell but no rushed judgement from me. 

[Turk Thrust]

2 hours ago, jono said:

 

I would suggest, considering where we were at and the money we have spent, that recruitment has been pretty reasonable if we look at the good, the not sure, and the “oh Tish” 

 

Oh Tish? I had to look that up and there’s a Jewish feast; a word meaning joy or gladness; a small amount; or excrement. Are you referring to the latter?

[FlyBritishMidland]

I’ve got a theory about PW signings.  He’s obviously big on fitness, being able to press and keep it going for close to 90mins.  I think for new signings this takes a bit of getting used to and Ritchie Barker alluded to this when talking about CBT.  I think that’s why we’re now seeing more of his summer signings come into the team and why some picked up niggles early on and we used more of the current players.  I think we’ll see the best of CBT next season.

Edited March 14 by FlyBritishMidland

[jono]

3 hours ago, Turk Thrust said:

Oh Tish? I had to look that up and there’s a Jewish feast; a word meaning joy or gladness; a small amount; or excrement. Are you referring to the latter?

I will only admit to what a maths teacher at school once said, prior to O levels ( a very long time ago 🤣)

“I hope you have revised properly, otherwise you will be in a space occupied by the famous Samuel Henry Irvine Taylor”