Mike Dean VAR

[Geriatram]

Ex referee Mike Dean admits he failed to call a mistake when he was video assistant ref, to save his mate Anthony Taylor who was the referee, from further grief in a match between Chelsea and Tottenham. How many more bad  decisions have been made for the same reason?.

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Geriatram said:

Ex referee Mike Dean admits he failed to call a mistake when he was video assistant ref, to save his mate Anthony Taylor who was the referee, from further grief in a match between Chelsea and Tottenham. How many more bad  decisions have been made for the same reason?.

You suspect a few.

How long before we get people calling for AI to run the VAR?

"We don't know why the var AI isn't working, we gave it every decision Andy D'Urso ever made to learn on........"

[Ram-Alf]

Dean is a Narcissist it's all about him, Crap Ref and an even worse VAR official and that takes some doing. 

[IslandExile]

Unbelievable isn't it?

I'm in the Clough camp - that you shouldn't criticise the officials, after all there wouldn't be a game without them - but come on, there are levels of incredulity. This is ridiculous and VAR has made things a lot worse.

It's not VAR; it's the idiots who are controlling it.

[Ilkestonian]

Disgraceful behaviour and must be close to corruption - var should be scrapped if it can't guarantee impartiality and independence. 

[Gaspode]

23 minutes ago, Ilkestonian said:

Disgraceful behaviour and must be close to corruption - var should be scrapped if it can't guarantee impartiality and independence. 

And Mike Dean should never officiate again…

[Loughborough Ram]

I've said since day one, VAR will never work properly, because rather than being used to benefit football, which was the original intention, it is run by referees for the benefit of referees. This is proof positive that my thoughts are spot on.

If the authorities want it to work properly take it away from the sole control of referees, train up specialist VAR operatives and have a referee present to ensure that the laws are upheld properly and include an ex player to introduce an understanding of what is actually happening in the game.

It'll never happen, of course

[BaaLocks]

7 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

And Mike Dean should never officiate again…

I guess he's got the transparency of retirement to help him with that one. Or is he still doing VAR? Not sure.

Did he admit he knew Taylor had made a mistake but didn't call it, or that he realised afterwards he should have called it? Sounds like the former, that he knew at the time. If so, yes it's a bad one. But any worse than a striker diving over a leg in the penalty area, simulating injury or (in prior years) asking to get a player booked? Maybe it is, I don't know. But they are human as well, doing a job that few seem to want to do and for next to zero appreciation. I'm not saying Dean was right to do it, but I am saying that it's hardly the biggest scandal the game has ever seen.

And, btw, did it effect the outcome of the game and, even if it did, what effect did it have on final league positions? Again, doesn't make it right but maybe puts it in perspective a little that they are - as one other poster said - human. As for AI making the decision, well the Google speaker in my house can't even tell me what time it is correctly so good luck wishing for that one.

Final point, a bit like Graham Poll, maybe Dean could take time to appreciate they do little good by saying things like this and trying to build a persona outside the black shirt and whistle.

[Gaspode]

30 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I guess he's got the transparency of retirement to help him with that one. Or is he still doing VAR? Not sure.

Did he admit he knew Taylor had made a mistake but didn't call it, or that he realised afterwards he should have called it? Sounds like the former, that he knew at the time. If so, yes it's a bad one. But any worse than a striker diving over a leg in the penalty area, simulating injury or (in prior years) asking to get a player booked? Maybe it is, I don't know. But they are human as well, doing a job that few seem to want to do and for next to zero appreciation. I'm not saying Dean was right to do it, but I am saying that it's hardly the biggest scandal the game has ever seen.

And, btw, did it effect the outcome of the game and, even if it did, what effect did it have on final league positions? Again, doesn't make it right but maybe puts it in perspective a little that they are - as one other poster said - human. As for AI making the decision, well the Google speaker in my house can't even tell me what time it is correctly so good luck wishing for that one.

Final point, a bit like Graham Poll, maybe Dean could take time to appreciate they do little good by saying things like this and trying to build a persona outside the black shirt and whistle.

I realised after I’d posted that he’d retired - but it would be nice if he could be charged with bringing the game into disrepute - he’s effectively made people question every game where he was VAR - was he giving the correct decision or the one that made his mates look good?

[DCFC Kicks]

I wonder if a similar thing happened in the 21/22 play-off final. The VAR team didn't want to spoil Jon Moss's final game so denied Huddersfield two stonewall penalties.

[Wolfie]

I just can’t quite work out why he’s admitted to it. Who gains from that?

[uttoxram75]

3 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I wonder if a similar thing happened in the 21/22 play-off final. The VAR team didn't want to spoil Jon Moss's final game so denied Huddersfield two stonewall penalties.

History will show that the gumps cheated their promotion. Interesting to know if Moss or Dean have any connections to bakeries. 

[Bris Vegas]

The clear and obvious error take is ridiculous too. It does seem that the officials in VAR are reluctant to call decisions because perhaps they feel getting involved is illustrating the officiating is poor.

When there are several VAR calls in a game it may beg the question why the officials aren’t seeing it.

So to protect the officials, they just stand by their decision, even if it is wrong.

I don’t believe there is corruption. But for instance, that Wolves non-penalty against United was just poor officiating. And VAR probably didn’t want to highlight that by telling the referee to see the monitor. Like it could embarrass him or something.

 

[Zag zig]

12 hours ago, Wolfie said:

I just can’t quite work out why he’s admitted to it. Who gains from that?

My first thought was there’s a book coming out, 2nd was is he stoking publicity for a media role or the after dinner circuit; neither of which would seem suitable for him.

Head scratcher.

[Ram-Alf]

4 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

 

When there are several VAR calls in a game it may beg the question why the officials aren’t seeing it.

So to protect the officials, they just stand by their decision, even if it is wrong.

I don’t believe there is corruption. But for instance, that Wolves non-penalty against United was just poor officiating. And VAR probably didn’t want to highlight that by telling the referee to see the monitor. Like it could embarrass him or something.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12447717/Premier-League-officials-FURIOUS-Mike-Dean.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/25/football-daily-email-mike-dean

The officials are seeing it, VAR will ask for a referral as they would have had multiple views of said incident, The man in black has a second or 2 to make a decision.

VAR looks to have sorted the offside rule and is getting a faster response, Penalties are very subjective...it's 1 or 2 persons opinion then analysed in the TV studio.

There's nothing wrong with VAR it's how a match official in a booth miles away makes his decision, You know when VAR sends the man in black what the result will be, I've only seen Michael Oliver turn down a VAR referral and stood with his...no penalty decision...VAR thought it was clear and obvious...so 2 different opinions, Moss and Webb thought the Man U Vs Wolves penalty was a penalty, Hooper and Salisbury(VAR)didn't. 

Handball is my bug bare, Where actually is the "natural position" and how many inches away from the body should a natural position be...again a subjective opinion.

Scrap VAR but this wont happen without FIFAs intervention.     

Edited August 26, 2023 by The Last Post

[Bris Vegas]

5 hours ago, The Last Post said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12447717/Premier-League-officials-FURIOUS-Mike-Dean.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/25/football-daily-email-mike-dean

The officials are seeing it, VAR will ask for a referral as they would have had multiple views of said incident, The man in black has a second or 2 to make a decision.

VAR looks to have sorted the offside rule and is getting a faster response, Penalties are very subjective...it's 1 or 2 persons opinion then analysed in the TV studio.

There's nothing wrong with VAR it's how a match official in a booth miles away makes his decision, You know when VAR sends the man in black what the result will be, I've only seen Michael Oliver turn down a VAR referral and stood with his...no penalty decision...VAR thought it was clear and obvious...so 2 different opinions, Moss and Webb thought the Man U Vs Wolves penalty was a penalty, Hooper and Salisbury(VAR)didn't. 

Handball is my bug bare, Where actually is the "natural position" and how many inches away from the body should a natural position be...again a subjective opinion.

Scrap VAR but this wont happen without FIFAs intervention.     

Scrapping VAR and we just go back to more controversy and complaints as officials aren’t getting the decisions correct. 

[Carl Sagan]

10 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

The clear and obvious error take is ridiculous too. It does seem that the officials in VAR are reluctant to call decisions because perhaps they feel getting involved is illustrating the officiating is poor.

When there are several VAR calls in a game it may beg the question why the officials aren’t seeing it.

So to protect the officials, they just stand by their decision, even if it is wrong.

I don’t believe there is corruption. But for instance, that Wolves non-penalty against United was just poor officiating. And VAR probably didn’t want to highlight that by telling the referee to see the monitor. Like it could embarrass him or something.

 

I absolutely believe there is corruption, and from conversations with referees that seems clear. The money in the Premier League is so extraordinary that it would be astonishing if referees were not being bribed or coerced. 

The best way to mitigate it is transparency. The audio between referee and VAR offiicials has to be miked up for the fans, with incidents being shown on the big screen in the ground. With the benefit of involving the paying fans rather than leaving them n the dark. It works in cricket and rugby. It needs to be made to work in football where it could enhance the experience inside the stadium, rather than destroy it.

And Tuchel should sue Mike Dean for getting him sacked.

[ilkleyram]

14 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Scrapping VAR and we just go back to more controversy and complaints as officials aren’t getting the decisions correct. 

The main argument for the introduction of VAR was to get more decisions right, reduce the controversy and thereby support referees and the importance of match officials.

It feels, and I don't watch that much EPL football nowadays, as if there are plenty of examples where decisions have been properly changed and maybe that's to the overall good of the game.  But every decision changed, by definition, means that the ref either got the original one wrong or missed it completely, so it reinforces the fallibility of referees and constantly questions their competence.  

It also appears to have done nothing to decrease controversy around decisions.  At times there appears to be more controversy mainly because there's very little in football that's fact - ball over the line for example - rather than opinion, and the lawmakers just make it worse with all the 'unnatural position' nonsense which turns a relatively simple question - 'was it deliberate handball or not, in the opinion of the referee' - into a discussion that would test the capabilities of United Nation peace negotiators.

In the end they're all human beings - fallible, frail and some are better than others - and football is routinely a matter of opinion.  The misplaced drive in football, and life generally, for perfection just leads to disappointment.

[IslandExile]

He's also poor on Sky.

Bring BT Score back with the Northampton fan ref.

[Ram-Alf]

4 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Scrapping VAR and we just go back to more controversy and complaints as officials aren’t getting the decisions correct. 

So no change then, Controversy without VAR, Controversy with VAR 🙄