So who would we have then?

[Ambitious]

Just now, BOB BIGGS said:

The problem they face is Frank’s 13 wins from his last 55 games in charge and Jody’s 4 from his last 18. 

I don't think past records really actually mean too much in football management, more so the fit with the club. How many managers who stick at it long enough bounce between doing bad and good jobs around the league? All of them. There is very, very few with no blemishes on their record. 

When you consider the old guard: Mick McCarthy, Tony Pulis, Sam Allardyce, Ian Holloway, Neil Warnock, etc. How many bad jobs did they do between them? A lot - but there's also a lot of good work in there too. 

Even just considering the managers in the Championship now: Mark Robins, Gary Rowett, Nigel Pearson, Alex Neil & Tony Mowbray... they all have shockers to their name. Mark Robins is widely considered one of the best managers in the football league at the moment - the job before returning to Coventry saw him sacked by Scunthorpe leaving them just above the relegation zone in League One. 

[Nuwtfly]

31 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Well the point of the thread is simply to see what people think, speculation is interesting. What I would say though is I don't think you have any evidence whatsoever for your impression as far as I can see. We have absolutely no idea what DC is going to do. Has he come out and said something supportive? No. I think if I was him and intended to see this purely as a rough patch and that we are in it for the long haul with Warne I would be inclined to say something. He will know the level of feeling, and it could probably do with dampening down. 

I don't recall many managers and teams are Derby getting booed actually during the match, let alone at half time/full time. In fact the only time I really remember it happening was Phil Brown and Stern John. I can remember boos breaking out after yet another inept sideways pass from Stephen Pearson that went straight into touch as well. It may have happened during Nigel Pearson's tenure I can't remember. But nor many other times and when it does happen the manager is in big, big trouble  

The four year contract and the absence of a pot to p*ss in is my evidence 

[Ambitious]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Whilst there is no escaping it's been a poor start to the season, I can't believe we're here already *checks date* 17th August throwing replacement names into the hat.

Just feels wrong you know, with no reports suggesting there is any possible departure on the horizon.

3 league games into a season where he's had chance to bring his own players, is that where we're at now, 3 games and any patience completely evaporates?

Let's say Warne was sacked today, we then have 2 weeks to find a replacement and make any adjustments to the squad before the window closes.

Oh, and figure out compensation for a whopping contract. It just makes zero sense unless Warne has completely lost the dressing room, do we honestly believe he has? 

Or is it just a case of a half a new team trying to gel together and put Warne's plan into place on the pitch, in which case give the bloke some time and climb down off his back.

By his own admission, there is possibly some of that going on. The cryptic post-match interviews would make a certain Billy Davies proud. 

[BOB BIGGS]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What happened at Swindon(?) with Jody do you know?

They decided not to give him the new season and brought someone new in. Results were poor towards the end of the season so they sacked him. Won one, drawn one, lost one so far this season with one rained off😎

[Day]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

By his own admission, there is possibly some of that going on. The cryptic post-match interviews would make a certain Billy Davies proud. 

Couple of players having their heads turned isn't losing the dressing room though is it?

If any of these players were to have interest from higher level clubs, naturally you would understand their desire to leave.

By his own admission also, he may have got that one wrong with paranoia following the poor performance.

Was only Saturday we stuck 3 away against Burton.

[Walkley Ram]

22 minutes ago, David said:

Couple of players having their heads turned isn't losing the dressing room though is it?

If any of these players were to have interest from higher level clubs, naturally you would understand their desire to leave.

By his own admission also, he may have got that one wrong with paranoia following the poor performance.

Was only Saturday we stuck 3 away against Burton.

I think his weird comment about something going wrong "that he's not allowed to talk about" on his ramstv interview was regarding cashin, and the bids for him. I have nothing to base that on, but he does not seem like a man in control of the dressing room at the moment.

I'd much rather him be the man for the job, and for me to be totally wrong. I just can't see many reasons to think he might be, as it stands.

Edited August 17, 2023 by oodledoodle

[Day]

4 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I think his weird comment about something going wrong "that he's not allowed to talk about" on his ramstv interview was regarding cashin, and the bids for him. I have nothing to base that on, but he does not seem like a man in control of the dressing room at the moment.

I'd much rather him be the man for the job, and for me to be totally wrong. I just can't see many reasons to think he might be, as it stands.

Individuals with interest from elsewhere will be complex situations and I'm sure will be frustrating for Warne, just not sure we can assume there is a widespread dressing room civil unrest yet. A win on Saturday and we're back to the same mood as we were last Saturday following the Burton game. 

[Walkley Ram]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Individuals with interest from elsewhere will be complex situations and I'm sure will be frustrating for Warne, just not sure we can assume there is a widespread dressing room civil unrest yet. A win on Saturday and we're back to the same mood as we were last Saturday following the Burton game. 

Honestly, personally, I wasn't impressed with us at Burton. We scored an early goal, then switched off for what, 20 or 30 mins and let them play. We looked worse after the goal, something I agree with Warne on. Burton are a poor side, we could have picked an 11 off this forum and given them a game. They still managed 60% possession, more shots than us, and DOUBLE the accurate passes that we managed. Goals are all that matters in football, but that performance and those stats are damning. We're not going to play Burton every week.

It'll be the same this weekend. I'm more interested in the performance than a result. I'd honestly happily take a loss if signs of improvement were there. If issues were addressed, and formations aren't blindly stuck to. We have the players to play football. Why aren't we doing it?

[May Contain Nuts]

52 minutes ago, David said:

Whilst there is no escaping it's been a poor start to the season, I can't believe we're here already *checks date* 17th August throwing replacement names into the hat.

Just feels wrong you know, with no reports suggesting there is any possible departure on the horizon.

3 league games into a season where he's had chance to bring his own players, is that where we're at now, 3 games and any patience completely evaporates?

Let's say Warne was sacked today, we then have 2 weeks to find a replacement and make any adjustments to the squad before the window closes.

Oh, and figure out compensation for a whopping contract. It just makes zero sense unless Warne has completely lost the dressing room, do we honestly believe he has? 

Or is it just a case of a half a new team trying to gel together and put Warne's plan into place on the pitch, in which case give the bloke some time and climb down off his back.

The problem is that it's hard to believe, but impossible to ignore, and depressingly difficult to argue against. Even things which would normally be mitigating circumstances are problems largely of his own creation.

With all the will in the world the list of reasons we should persist consists pretty much exclusively of:
- hoping for an improvement (and even that's just to reach the same standard as last season)
- hoping that he can replicate his successes at Rotherham (and then finding a way to keep us up)
- a fear of repeating past mistakes and the subsequent financial implications for the club / impact on the next manager

....but there's a feeling we've already seen everything he has to offer tactically so there's little to cling onto there, and we don't have and can't get the players needed to make his Rotherham blueprint work here, so what's left?

Vain hope and crippling fear.

What a position to be in after all we hoped for going into the summer.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[May Contain Nuts]

f****** hell having typed that I actually want to cry.

[Walkley Ram]

3 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

f****** hell having typed that I actually want to cry.

Welcome to the club.

[Rampant]

Are we sure it's Paul Warne in charge and not Karl Pilkington?

[Day]

12 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

The problem is that it's hard to believe, but impossible to ignore, and depressingly difficult to argue against. Even things which would normally be mitigating circumstances are problems largely of his own creation.

With all the will in the world the list of reasons we should persist consists pretty much exclusively of:
- hoping for an improvement (and even that's just to reach the same standard as last season)
- hoping that he can replicate his successes at Rotherham (and then finding a way to keep us up)
- a fear of repeating past mistakes and the subsequent financial implications for the club / impact on the next manager

....but there's a feeling we've already seen everything he has to offer tactically, and we don't have and can't get the players needed to make his Rotherham blueprint work here so what's left?

Increasingly vain hope and crippling fear.

What a position to be in after all we hoped for going into the summer.

As fans, hope is what we all have. Hope is what Clowes will have as well, hope he's made the right decision bringing Warne in. 

There is no guaranteed success option out there otherwise all clubs would be doing it, remember when Nigel Pearson was the overwhelming choice on here to come in and take us up. Those that knew how that would end up were very much in the minority on here at least.

If you take hope away, we have nothing left and for some, Warne's appointment removed any hope before the ink was dry. Been there myself under Nigel Clough, it's not great going into the season with no hope, no excitement.

[Walkley Ram]

2 minutes ago, David said:

As fans, hope is what we all have. Hope is what Clowes will have as well, hope he's made the right decision bringing Warne in. 

There is no guaranteed success option out there otherwise all clubs would be doing it, remember when Nigel Pearson was the overwhelming choice on here to come in and take us up. Those that knew how that would end up were very much in the minority on here at least.

If you take hope away, we have nothing left and for some, Warne's appointment removed any hope before the ink was dry. Been there myself under Nigel Clough, it's not great going into the season with no hope, no excitement.

Weirdly I was gutted when Nigel left. Thought he was really close to cracking it. Shows what I know.

[SSD]

56 minutes ago, David said:

Whilst there is no escaping it's been a poor start to the season, I can't believe we're here already *checks date* 17th August throwing replacement names into the hat.

Just feels wrong you know, with no reports suggesting there is any possible departure on the horizon.

3 league games into a season where he's had chance to bring his own players, is that where we're at now, 3 games and any patience completely evaporates?

Let's say Warne was sacked today, we then have 2 weeks to find a replacement and make any adjustments to the squad before the window closes.

Oh, and figure out compensation for a whopping contract. It just makes zero sense unless Warne has completely lost the dressing room, do we honestly believe he has? 

Or is it just a case of a half a new team trying to gel together and put Warne's plan into place on the pitch, in which case give the bloke some time and climb down off his back.

I agree that we can't start replacing the manager, I'd argue we need to keep him until the end of the season and evaluate from there, unless it turned really dire. 

What I think is not helping is it is difficult for supporters to ignore the last third of the previous season where the team weren't good enough and blew the playoff chances. PW giving messages in interviews of how he wants his teams to play with high intensity, yet it's very obvious early on the two 2 centre backs we've bought in are past their prime and cannot play a high line because they're too slow, as an example. Retaining the ball is atrocious and this is a classic to hack supporters off. 

We are going to have to learn to grit our teeth because we've signed this chap up for the long term. Unless we end up in the bottom half 12-15 games in, he's going nowhere. I don't see any alternatives other to stick at it for a season.

[Day]

Just now, oodledoodle said:

Weirdly I was gutted when Nigel left. Thought he was really close to cracking it. Shows what I know.

Crazy looking back that he had assembled all the ingredients, just for whatever reason couldn't get anything more than beans and toast out of them.

You always expect a little new manager bounce, but that turn around was ridiculous....I remember when McClaren was first linked, was a divisive decision.

[Kernow]

2 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

Moore isn't my favourite choice either. But he took Wednesday up on 93 points, with the lowest budget that the club had in 10 years.

The narrative that he somehow bought promotion is absolutely false. His signings were freebies, same as ours. Offloaded high wages. Did a fantastic job all things considered, especially with that nutter of a chairman.

I've seen the argument here that anyone would have gone up with their budget. It's not a reflection of what actually happened, and makes us sound small time in comparison. It's the kind of thing the Accrington chairman would say.

96 points actually! 20 more than we managed, enough points to get automatic promotion in any other season, enough to win the league in pretty much any season, more than we’ve ever managed in our history.

The achievements of Ipswich and Plymouth overshadowed their season, if they’d got the same amount of points and run away with it, they’d be hailed as one of the best teams to play at this level. And that’s a club who aren’t exactly run brilliantly or splashing the cash in the process.

[Walkley Ram]

Just now, David said:

Crazy looking back that he had assembled all the ingredients, just for whatever reason couldn't get anything more than beans and toast out of them.

You always expect a little new manager bounce, but that turn around was ridiculous....I remember when McClaren was first linked, was a divisive decision.

He came in, looked at what we had, then played to their strengths. None of this "needs time to sign his own players" nonsense. Solid defensive mid, Chris Martin, and then letting the midfield run riot.

With Warne its like getting home to a cupboard with only beans and bread, and instead of making a banging beans on toast, you instead decide to go hungry because you need to wait until next week to buy a pot noodle.

Give me Steve Mac's beans on toast any day. Top coach. Made the most of what he had, a skill not many have.

[Walkley Ram]

1 minute ago, Kernow said:

96 points actually! 20 more than we managed, enough points to get automatic promotion in any other season, enough to win the league in pretty much any season, more than we’ve ever managed in our history.

The achievements of Ipswich and Plymouth overshadowed their season, if they’d got the same amount of points and run away with it, they’d be hailed as one of the best teams to play at this level. And that’s a club who aren’t exactly run brilliantly or splashing the cash in the process.

I only count 93 as we were robbed on them last day. Sorry.

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, SSD said:

I agree that we can't start replacing the manager, I'd argue we need to keep him until the end of the season and evaluate from there, unless it turned really dire. 

What I think is not helping is it is difficult for supporters to ignore the last third of the previous season where the team weren't good enough and blew the playoff chances. PW giving messages in interviews of how he wants his teams to play with high intensity, yet it's very obvious early on the two 2 centre backs we've bought in are past their prime and cannot play a high line because they're too slow, as an example. Retaining the ball is atrocious and this is a classic to hack supporters off. 

We are going to have to learn to grit our teeth because we've signed this chap up for the long term. Unless we end up in the bottom half 12-15 games in, he's going nowhere. I don't see any alternatives other to stick at it for a season.

If hope is all we have then you've done a really good job of blowing it out of the water! 😄

Warne hasn't just had the beginning of this season and now it's a bit like with Jimmy Jewell, instead of a fresh start it just kept getting worse as the new season progressed. I'm sure Warne will be given longer by Clowes but long-term I can't see him doing the Club much good even if he achieves promotion. So that is the last rock to cling to that he somehow gets lucky like our last unbeaten run, and has to pick a team that works rather than a team he thinks should work! 😄

Edited August 17, 2023 by RoyMac5