Max Bird

[jono]

19 hours ago, chadlad said:

If I were Max I would be off to Hull pdq, a Manager and Assistant who know him well and no doubt appreciate his attributes.

Let me say that Max Bird is NOT a number 10, but he is a very good defensive midfielder with the vision to play a killer pass.

I don’t understand why we would try to convert him into an attacking, pressing number 10. Play your best players in their best position- it’s not rocket science!

 

I don’t agree. Bird can see a pass but isn’t the greatest tackler. He might not be an out and out 10 but he adds a creative unpredictability higher up the pitch. It was Rooney who saw him and coached him as a deeper player but I think he was thinking in PL terms. L1 is way more rough and tumble. Could be later in his career Birdy might become the player Rooney thinks he is but right now we need him over the half way line as much as possible

[Tamworthram]

3 hours ago, Premier ram said:

If we want to be promoted this season then Birdy needs to stay at the club , very talented player who I think is vastly underrated by some fans, Max has been superb in the number 10 role in pre season  and Wigan obviously did their homework on him and reduced the space he had to work in, all part of the learning process in a new role for Max

I rate Bird but I'm not sure promotion is entirely dependent on him staying or not. 

[FlyBritishMidland]

4 hours ago, Premier ram said:

If we want to be promoted this season then Birdy needs to stay at the club , very talented player who I think is vastly underrated by some fans, Max has been superb in the number 10 role in pre season  and Wigan obviously did their homework on him and reduced the space he had to work in, all part of the learning process in a new role for Max

 

4 hours ago, angieram said:

I created a thread to talk about Max Bird, the player, over in the Derby County forum, but it quickly got filled with transfer talk.

So I am heartened to see the transfer thread on Max Bird full of his discussion on Max Bird, the player. 

My two pence worth - he looked excellent all pre-season playing the advanced midfield role because we were starting from deep. Yesterday the build up play was much slower, so Bird was forced up against the forward line where he was much less effective. That's not his fault, it's those behind him being so ponderous in getting the ball upfield. 

 

Top posts about Max Bird.  He played well in preseason getting in advanced positions and he was getting plaudits for his part in 2 of the goals against Stoke.  After the 1st league game he’s either rubbish, never a number 10, we should sell him or any combination of those.  He’s learning the role, he will have off days.  He will work out how to be more effective in those tighter games.  He was still getting in and around the box, hence his contribution to the goal.

Not every player is going to play well every game.

 

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I rate Bird but I'm not sure promotion is entirely dependent on him staying or not. 

hope he stays but if he does leave that might provide funds for a useful striker in the loan market - funds which might not otherwise be available 

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

hope he stays but if he does leave that might provide funds for a useful striker in the loan market - funds which might not otherwise be available 

If we can't spend money from Knight then what makes you think otherwise?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

If we can't spend money from Knight then what makes you think otherwise?

I suspect that money found it's way the Joswiak appreciation fund in Poznan.

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I suspect that money found it's way the Joswiak appreciation fund in Poznan.

Well it maybe we get to spend the next lot of transfer fees. I expect it'll go on wages for Billy Sharp.

[kevinhectoring]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

If we can't spend money from Knight then what makes you think otherwise?

I think otherwise because i listened to what Paul Warne told us between the lines in the interminable interview about his mum and the spag bol recipe. ( I was in the bath when it started and, since I listened to it all,  I nearly got pneumonia )

What he told us was: the EFl have agreed that if we sell players we can reinvest the funds in transfer fees. But David Clowes, because he is a financially prudent hero of ours, won’t let PW reinvest all of the funds (because he needs to repair the cash outflow which inevitably occurs when a club with our outgoings accidentally finds itself in the wrong division). I don’t think they planned to sell Bird. And I think that if they do, PW will be allowed to use the funds. 

We’ll see (maybe)

If Bird’s destiny this season is to play where he did yesterday, then best for him to go and for us to splash the cash on a striker   If it is to play where he should, in front of the defence, then I hope we keep him and tell Hourihane he can’t be a quarterback

 

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

If Bird’s destiny this season is to play where he did yesterday, then best for him to go and for us to splash the cash on a striker   If it is to play where he should, in front of the defence, then I hope we keep him and tell Hourihane he can’t be a quarterback

I totally disagree with where you think Bird should play, it doesn't get the best out him.

[kevinhectoring]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I totally disagree with where you think Bird should play, it doesn't get the best out him.

fair enough. i agree he plays a defence splitting pass.  But to explain my thinking:  his greatest strength - and he has a few - is knowing where to put himself defensively when we’re out of possession.  That’s not Hourihane’s thing at all. 

[Somersall Ram]

I would love to know where people think Bird shout play. He has no physicality to pay centre holding midfield. Doesn’t tackle well or head well. Moved off the ball to easily. Can’t play no 10 position. Isn’t box to box energetic player. Doesn’t assist or score much. So where should we accommodate someone who appears to offer so little 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Somersall Ram said:

I would love to know where people think Bird shout play. He has no physicality to pay centre holding midfield. Doesn’t tackle well or head well. Moved off the ball to easily. Can’t play no 10 position. Isn’t box to box energetic player. Doesn’t assist or score much. So where should we accommodate someone who appears to offer so little 

FFS shush we'll never sell him!

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Somersall Ram said:

I would love to know where people think Bird shout play. He has no physicality to pay centre holding midfield. Doesn’t tackle well or head well. Moved off the ball to easily. Can’t play no 10 position. Isn’t box to box energetic player. Doesn’t assist or score much. So where should we accommodate someone who appears to offer so little 

But apart from all those things, he's amazing!

I have to respectfully disagree though. Physicality has developed and his tackling is much improved. He also intercepts pretty well which means tackles not always required. I don't see him being moved off (as) easily in a 1-to-1 as he was a couple of years back. I don't think he's a no.10 as such but I definitely think he can play a genuine no.8, like a Lampard (but with the inclination to shoot very much a work in progress). Can't read too much into pre-season friendlies, I know, but he assisted NML vs. Stoke, and in an unconventional manner he assisted our goal at the weekend too! I think he will score a few this year if played further forward.

In short, I'd persist with him as the most advanced of the midfield 3, unless there is a plan to bring in a player who can do that role even better, in which case he'd take the place of Hourihane or Smith.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, jameso said:

He also intercepts pretty well which means tackles not always required.

and that’s the point. The best defenders don't tackle. They make the attacker play the ball to someone in a less dangerous position.  Curtis Davis probably made more tackles in his short career than Bobby Moore and Maldini combined   

[vonwright]

Bird isn't the problem - Bird + Hourihane + Smith is the problem. Our midfield looked a bit slow, unathletic and physically weak last season and since then we've sold Knight. Bird or Hourihane would both look better with a different kind of midfielder playing alongside them.

I'm frankly puzzled that we didn't prioritise such a midfielder when we went on a signing spree at the start of summer. 

The solution now might seem to be sell Bird and use the proceeds to buy a different kind of midfielder but honestly I don't have any confidence we'd bring one in. 

Midfield is such an important part of the team and the balance has been wrong for a long time. I'm baffled that the management don't seem to see that. 

[Grimbeard]

On 05/08/2023 at 22:45, sage said:

Well it seems we have settled on our scapegoat, glad it didn't take 5 or 6 games, why waste time. 

Let's not be hasty. I know that by getting things sorted early we can get our knives really sharp, but 'official scapegoat' is an important roll within the set up. I'm sure that our expert brick-bat throwers would like just a little more time to settle on someone who is really undeserving of the title.

Think of all the great scapegoats from our past. Hinton, O'Hare, Pembridge, Tommy Johnson, Keogh and many others, big boots to fill, so let's give it a week or so to get the bile really boiling.

 

 

 

[jono]

13 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well it maybe we get to spend the next lot of transfer fees. I expect it'll go on wages for Billy Sharp.

Ahh Roy. Full on Eyore mode I see 😉

[kevinhectoring]

9 hours ago, vonwright said:

Bird isn't the problem - Bird + Hourihane + Smith is the problem. Our midfield looked a bit slow, unathletic and physically weak last season and since then we've sold Knight. Bird or Hourihane would both look better with a different kind of midfielder playing alongside them.

I'm frankly puzzled that we didn't prioritise such a midfielder when we went on a signing spree at the start of summer. 

The solution now might seem to be sell Bird and use the proceeds to buy a different kind of midfielder but honestly I don't have any confidence we'd bring one in. 

Midfield is such an important part of the team and the balance has been wrong for a long time. I'm baffled that the management don't seem to see that. 

tommo has the potential to remedy that balance. But not sure he is yet up to it (though I’ve read he looked good in pre season?)

[duncanjwitham]

12 hours ago, jameso said:

I don't think he's a no.10 as such but I definitely think he can play a genuine no.8, like a Lampard (but with the inclination to shoot very much a work in progress).  ... 

In short, I'd persist with him as the most advanced of the midfield 3, unless there is a plan to bring in a player who can do that role even better, in which case he'd take the place of Hourihane or Smith.

I remember when Jacob Butterfield was at Huddersfield, they basically played him in the middle of the 3 in a 4231 (so much more advanced than he played here).  But they had 3 strong, quick, direct guys around him (Nakhi Wells, Sean Scannell, and someone else I can't think of right now).  Butterfields job was basically to stand about 30 yards from goal and play as many through-balls to those other 3 as possible, and it was pretty effective.

I think if you're going to play Bird further forward, it has to be something more like that.  He's never going to turn into a box-to-box midfielder like Lampard, it's just not remotely his skillset.  He's one of the best passers in our team, so get the ball into his feet and give him people to pass to.  The problem is, we don't really have those quick, direct guys to run off him.  We've got NML alongside him, and Ward running from deeper, and that's about it.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I remember when Jacob Butterfield was at Huddersfield, they basically played him in the middle of the 3 in a 4231 (so much more advanced than he played here).  But they had 3 strong, quick, direct guys around him (Nakhi Wells, Sean Scannell, and someone else I can't think of right now).  Butterfields job was basically to stand about 30 yards from goal and play as many through-balls to those other 3 as possible, and it was pretty effective.

I think if you're going to play Bird further forward, it has to be something more like that.  He's never going to turn into a box-to-box midfielder like Lampard, it's just not remotely his skillset.  He's one of the best passers in our team, so get the ball into his feet and give him people to pass to.  The problem is, we don't really have those quick, direct guys to run off him.  We've got NML alongside him, and Ward running from deeper, and that's about it.

Good points. I did suggest Lampard as a model specifically because I didn't see Lampard as the classic "box-to-box" midfielder and I don't see Bird as one either (unlike Gerrard, for example). It's probably still not a great comparison though - Bird maybe wants to find the quality through ball (rather than quantity of possible through balls), while Lampard was more athletic and had a good instinct for when to appear  in attacking positions and how to score goals (including from jammy potshots!)