James Collins

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, Foreveram said:

Rubbish, what if someone taps into an empty net from a yard out, is that more difficult than a penalty then.

the point is, they will have earned that by moving / being in the right position at the right time. Not just being handed a free shot from the spot. 

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Every clubs penalty taker has their stats inflated - this is just a fact. Obviously they still have to put them away so its wrong to remove them entirely like @Chris_Martin is suggesting. It is true however that they shouldn't be regarded as highly as a goal from open play.

what i was trying to get at in the first place is that we shouldn't use penalties to judge players overall performances. 

Certain people have been saying things like 'how amazing collins has been this season, and he's been our star player because look how many goals he's got'. If you put the penalties to one side (because it's a fact they boost all your performance related stats), he has 9 league goals. The earlier table showed he was about 54th in the league for shooting stats. Are people really saying thats our star player? Just off the top of my heaad, I think we would miss Nelson, Cashin, Forsyth, Bird, NML, Wilson, Nyambe, Hourihane, more than we would miss Collins. 

[uttoxram75]

Of all the things we could moan about this season, James Collins is not one of them.

He gives 100% every time he pulls the shirt on and scores goals. 

Yes we can moan about tactics and team selections etc, but Collo's effort, comittment and goals are beyond reproach. He's an honest pro playing at his level and giving it everything.

[FKANorwichExile]

After all my humble pie eating on Collo, my only remaining criticism is that for a guy who's pretty good in the air, he never wins flick ons. The game we started with TJJ up top (can't remember which. Cheltenham maybe?), he flicked on a long goal kick which led to a goal. It was proper route one stuff, Vickers to JJ, flicked wide, crossed in, tapped home. You'd think a big lump like Collins would thrive on stuff like that, yet I don't remember him winning a single one.

Otherwise I hope he's being wrapped up in cotton wool at every available opportunity. He's easily our most improved player and definitely in with NML, Cash and Nelson for player of the season.

[DerbyAleMan]

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

what i was trying to get at in the first place is that we shouldn't use penalties to judge players overall performances. 

Certain people have been saying things like 'how amazing collins has been this season, and he's been our star player because look how many goals he's got'. If you put the penalties to one side (because it's a fact they boost all your performance related stats), he has 9 league goals. The earlier table showed he was about 54th in the league for shooting stats. Are people really saying thats our star player? Just off the top of my heaad, I think we would miss Nelson, Cashin, Forsyth, Bird, NML, Wilson, Nyambe, Hourihane, more than we would miss Collins. 

Absolute rubbish. Collins would be a massive miss, as he is our only fit forward, and scoring goals, and works his arse off. For me Nelson , Nyambe, Cashin, NML and Collins have been our best players so far this season. 

[DCFC Kicks]

2 hours ago, Kernow said:

We missed two penalties against Morecombe last season and didn't win the game as a result. A win in that game would have had us finish in the play-offs and may even be a Championship side right now.

England could be reigning European champions if penalties were easy enough to just be disregarded.

Every goal is worth the same, I don't really care how they go in, scoring penalties shouldn't be a way to be negative towards a player...

Its not about how important penalties are. Of course they're important. The point is - the player who is on penalties gets an advantage over other players in terms of their goal tally for the season. Why is that so hard to understand?

[DCFC Kicks]

2 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I am using my common sense, I’m applying the facts. A penalty goal is a goal, it counts in a match and is counted in statistics. The player who scores the penalty goal has a goal recorded against their name and it counts towards their personal goal tally and the goals scored by the team, there’s no inflating stats, there’s no padding, it’s is a factual recording of a goal scored. 
Cristiano Ronaldo is largely regarded as one of the greatest goalscorers to play the game, he’s scored over 150 penalty goals in his career, do you think he’d let anyone take them off his record? Messi over 100 penalty goals. Shearer over 70. Rooney 48. Brazilian Ronaldo 47. 
 

Yes, a penalty is worth the same as any other goal, I never said otherwise. Do you not agree the player who is on penalties generally gets more goals as a result? If Hourihane was on pens he would be on more goals this season and Collins on less. That's all I'm saying.

[DCFC Kicks]

2 hours ago, Foreveram said:

Why would Nelson miss if it’s that easy.

I never said it was easy. I'm confident Nelson would have scored at least one. Therefore his goal tally would be up as a result of being on pens.

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

what i was trying to get at in the first place is that we shouldn't use penalties to judge players overall performances. 

Certain people have been saying things like 'how amazing collins has been this season, and he's been our star player because look how many goals he's got'. If you put the penalties to one side (because it's a fact they boost all your performance related stats), he has 9 league goals. The earlier table showed he was about 54th in the league for shooting stats. Are people really saying thats our star player? Just off the top of my heaad, I think we would miss Nelson, Cashin, Forsyth, Bird, NML, Wilson, Nyambe, Hourihane, more than we would miss Collins. 

I would agree apart from the fact we don't have another striker currently. I've always thought Waghorn was better when he was available. 

I do think you're harsh on Collins. He's just doing what the manager instructs to the best of his ability, and he's doing well in that regard. He's doing good overall. 

[Bris Vegas]

Collins is a decent player inside the box. Outside of it, not so much.

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, DerbyAleMan said:

Absolute rubbish. Collins would be a massive miss, as he is our only fit forward, and scoring goals, and works his arse off. For me Nelson , Nyambe, Cashin, NML and Collins have been our best players so far this season. 

how is that absolute rubbish?

It's a fact that taking penalties inflates your performance stats, not just the goal tally. It's also a fact he is 54th in the shooting stats for league one players. 

I am talking about the season as a whole, up until last week or so we still had other forwards fit. John-Jules, Washington, & Waghorn all have better np data for most metrics this season (also a fact)

[sunnyhill60]

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

 

It's a fact that taking penalties inflates your performance stats, not just the goal tally. It's also a fact he is 54th in the shooting stats for league one players. 

 

Surely not? Your having a laugh?

More seriously, what a pointless furrow you and others are ploughing. An absolutely futile! waste of time.

I am confident many fans have had their expectations exceeded as far as Collins is concerned this season. I have no concerns about how he compares to other league one strikers and their stats, what I see are the points his goals have earned , not to mention his work rate and vital role defending set pieces.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

What an utterly pointless back and forth this has degraded in to.

As it stands and like it or not, Collins is our main man up front. Get behind him, help keep his confidence up and he'll do his level best to get us over the line.

I don't give a toss what his % of his goals are penalties, just that goals are going in. Get a grip. Ive done my share of moaning about our style of play but this takes the biscuit.

[Archied]

On 02/02/2024 at 01:36, Chris_Martin said:

18 goals. At least 3 of them were playing against kids in the pizza cup. 13 in the league, 4 were from pens , so 9 non pen goals really in 29 games. That barely just gets him in the top 10 scoring chart. If you had really read the stats then you would see that if anything they don't back up what your saying, they make him look even worse. His fitness, durability, and availability are all kind of the same thing. So your saying he's good because he's always able to play? Have you ever wondered why me and others are criticising him? If he was really doing that well why would anyone need to defend him? I have strongly defended some of our players and managers in the past, but Collins and even more so Warne are just not right for our club.

So your bored of constantly rubbishing the manager and moved on to fixating on one of our players, hmmm

[Tamworthram]

6 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Collins is a decent player inside the box. Outside of it, not so much.

This comment ignores all the hard work he puts in outside the box. A valuable contribution often overlooked by some.

[TomTom92]

Doesn’t matter now if he drops a stinker for the rest of the season and we drop out the play offs. Providing he gives 100% we have no right to moan at him. Not Collo’s fault our hopes and dreams hang pretty much on his shoulders alone.

Got to get behind him and then come the end of the season, win, lose or draw we can discuss his performance this season and whether or not he deserves a new contract.

FWIW I think Collo is an average to good league 1 striker. Do I think we could’ve attracted better or had better alternatives? Yes. But that’s history now. Let’s back him and hope CBT and Adams can improve us enough to get us over the line.

[ram59]

I've always judged Collins on what he brings to the team as a whole. He runs his socks off, pressuring opposing defenders, preventing them starting dangerous attacks at source. It's not easy to have a stat to back this up. 

While he wasn't amongst the goals, he was criticised for not scoring enough, now he's being downgraded for the amount of penalties he puts away. With the exception of the last penalty, all of the others have been been put away with comfort. It's nice to have a player in the team willing to take them. Many times in the past, we haven't had the luxury of having a decent penalty taker.

[Day]

9 hours ago, Boycie said:

Dave n Collins sitting up a tree, k.i.s.s.i.n.g.

I wish 

[angieram]

You're just jealous because he's got a better career  penalty conversion rate than THE Chris Martin!

[Tamworthram]

25 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Doesn’t matter now if he drops a stinker for the rest of the season and we drop out the play offs. Providing he gives 100% we have no right to moan at him. Not Collo’s fault our hopes and dreams hang pretty much on his shoulders alone.

Got to get behind him and then come the end of the season, win, lose or draw we can discuss his performance this season and whether or not he deserves a new contract.

FWIW I think Collo is an average to good league 1 striker. Do I think we could’ve attracted better or had better alternatives? Yes. But that’s history now. Let’s back him and hope CBT and Adams can improve us enough to get us over the line.

Depends on what you mean by “drops a stinker”. I have said only this morning that we need to recognise all the hard work he puts in but hard work alone shouldn’t be enough to exclude any player from fair and reasonable criticism. If he continues to work hard but misses a load of sitters or gets himself needlessly sent off in a critical game them I don’t see why we shouldn’t discuss his performance before the season he is out. 
 

Fair and reasonable criticism doesn’t mean we aren’t getting behind him. Same with any player.