Mr Tibbs Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Top six but even if not I'll weigh up the circumstances. Better Derby managers and better Derby teams have failed to achieve what they "should have" over the years so it won't be the end of the world if we fail again. Sheet happens, life goes on. Day, Grumpy Git, taffyram and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Whilst there is a lack of clear cut information on our own budget, there is a lot for other clubs in our division, based on 21/22 accounts, previous seasons in L1 and current financial shape of their club. It's then reasonable to assume our is higher. Our main rivals for promotion being: Blackpool, Reading, Bolton, Barnsley, Peterborough, Portsmouth, Charlton. Likely figures for this season being, in ascending wage bill order: Peterborough - £7m revenue, £7m wage bill Blackpool - L1 revenue of £9m, with a £7m wage bill Barnsley - £9m revenue, £8m wage bill Portsmouth - £12m revenue, £9m wage bill Reading - £11m revenue, £10m wage bill (EFL imposed wage cap of £16m in 22/23 and they failed to meet their imposed limits. Reduction in wage bill inline with reduction in revenue due to league) Charlton - £10m revenue, £11m wage bill Bolton - £14m revenue, £12m wage bill No other team will have a wage bill exceeding £10m. We'll undoubtedly have the highest revenue this season, with a more than likely top 2 wage bill. I estimate our figures will be approximately £20m revenue and £13m wage bill. What was our wage bill last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, sage said: What was our wage bill last season? "Whilst there is a lack of clear cut information on our own budget"... "I estimate our figures will be approximately £20m revenue and £13m wage bill" Total club wage bill last season would have likely been in the £10-12m range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: "Whilst there is a lack of clear cut information on our own budget"... "I estimate our figures will be approximately £20m revenue and £13m wage bill" Total club wage bill last season would have likely been in the £10-12m range. OK, I thought it was more like £8-9m but as you say there are no accurate figures around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: "Whilst there is a lack of clear cut information on our own budget"... "I estimate our figures will be approximately £20m revenue and £13m wage bill" Total club wage bill last season would have likely been in the £10-12m range. I can’t be bothered to look back over previous posts but didn’t you spend most of last season saying we wouldn’t run at a profit, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) By Warnes own admission he saw last season as a failure by not reaching the play offs. On that basis I would say this year will be to get promoted, not ideally by finishing in the top 2 spots, but if it’s through the play offs then so be it. A lot of the excuses have gone, we can pay fees, extend contracts, give longer contracts and have more than 5 players to start with. I don’t expect it to be easy, but we should be able to finish top 2 given the resources we have in comparison to most of the other teams. Edited June 24, 2023 by EnigmaRam Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 hours ago, oodledoodle said: This is the kind of post rival fans come into the forum and take the mickey out of. Perhaps, but I don’t really see why. I’m not saying we will get promoted, I’m just saying we should. That’s not cockiness, it’s just facts. I doubt any rival fan will argue that we’re not favourites. We absolutely could fail, and if we do that’s on us, and extremely embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 hours ago, sage said: What is our budget? No one knows exact figures, but we’re the biggest club in the league by some margin. We will thus have the largest income, and therefore the largest budget. Add to that £3m in sales from Knight and Bielik and we really shouldn’t be struggling financially to compete. Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Without knowing our final squad too early to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase116 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 It's funny, after we missed out on the play offs, I turned round to the wife and 'we will win the league next season, play offs has to be minimal achievement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Foreveram said: I can’t be bothered to look back over previous posts but didn’t you spend most of last season saying we wouldn’t run at a profit, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. £20m revenue, but about £15m in operating costs and £10m admin expenses, resulting in a £5m loss. Revenue could be slightly higher due to additional income from cup competitions. Wages could be slightly overestimated. I still expect a loss. Foreveram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) Absolute minimum for me this season is challenging for automatic promotion. Top 3/4 finish. We managed to finish just outside the playoffs with a very thin, bundled together squad last season. With some more planning and transfer budget, I see no reason why we shouldn't be flying high. Warne is a nice chap and has some strange charisma about him. Putting that aside, his results vs top 10 clubs last season was dreadful, particularly away from home when lumping it down the wing and aimless crosses got us nowhere. His refusal to rotate key players against poorer sides at home when we did have the rarity of options concerned me too. Apart from the Sheff Weds match where we had to get a result, the football away from home was terrible to watch at times against the bigger sides. This has to change if we're going to challenge. If Warne doesn't secure us promotion then I fear his job will be on the butcher's block, if we're to follow Mr Clowes' plan. Edited June 24, 2023 by SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyram59 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Play-Off's but hopefully challenging for top 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 25 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: No one knows exact figures, but we’re the biggest club in the league by some margin. We will thus have the largest income, and therefore the largest budget. Add to that £3m in sales from Knight and Bielik and we really shouldn’t be struggling financially to compete. It doesn't quite work like that. We will I imagine have one of the top 6 budgets, but we still have to work to an approved business plan. Clowes isn't going to throw money at this, the era of speculate to accumulate is over for now. Clubs like Bolton could run at a owner funded loss within FFP rules CBX1985 and Wolfie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, sage said: It doesn't quite work like that. We will I imagine have one of the top 6 budgets, but we still have to work to an approved business plan. Clowes isn't going to throw money at this, the era of speculate to accumulate is over for now. Clubs like Bolton could run at a owner funded loss within FFP rules That business plan will allow us to spend what we bring in. Sure, Clowes can’t pump money in, but he shouldn’t need to - the money the club generates alone will give us the biggest budget in the league. Clowes isn’t going to spend recklessly like Mel, but I’m sure he’s not looking to profit off the club either. He will allow the club to spend what it brings in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 16 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: That business plan will allow us to spend what we bring in. Sure, Clowes can’t pump money in, but he shouldn’t need to - the money the club generates alone will give us the biggest budget in the league. Clowes isn’t going to spend recklessly like Mel, but I’m sure he’s not looking to profit off the club either. He will allow the club to spend what it brings in. You miss my point. Whilst we can pretty much guarantee we will have one of the highest budgets, you can't guarantee we will have the highest budget because other chairman may subsidise their clubs more than Clowes is planning to. That is not a criticism of Clowes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Throughout our history this is the third time we've been in the third tier. Those other two times, we were promoted after the second season. Unless we're promoted this season, it would be the lowest moment in our history. After last season's promotions, we are now clearly the biggest team remaining in this league by some margin. The transfer embargo has been lifted (finally). We have a manager who has spent 4 seasons as manager in this division, winning promotion in 3 of them. The minimum expecctation has to be promotion. I am tempted to say automatic promotion, but any way to get out of this god-forsaken league will do me. Failure to get out of it will be a failure. OoooMarkWright and angieram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, sage said: You miss my point. Whilst we can pretty much guarantee we will have one of the highest budgets, you can't guarantee we will have the highest budget because other chairman may subsidise their clubs more than Clowes is planning to. That is not a criticism of Clowes. You can’t guarantee it no, but I strongly suggest we will do. Looking at the clubs in the league this season, I can’t see many where I think the owner is going to throw money at it. Time will tell, but a lot of clubs in this league are / have recently been in financial trouble, so I don’t see anyone spending vast sums (like Ipswich last season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 If offered, I’d take the second place now. Aim has to be higher though and third or below would be disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Obviously top 2 is the aim, once you are in the play offs there is a lot of luck needed. So for me, if we finish top 6, PW will have the support of the vast majority. Anything below that is not only not good enough but could well lead to upheaval. This is the first time in since Rowett that there is a genuine expectation of promotion. LeedsCityRam and David Graham Brown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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