Genuinely shocked at low quality of Refs this season

[MaltRam]

3 hours ago, ram59 said:

Like it or not we are going to have to resort to the dark arts...

Please no. I'd rather stay down.

It's bad enough this season. Jason Knight for instance needs to stop diving whether he's here or elsewhere. Does my head in. 

The refs are appalling, and I think we've had a shocking set of decisions over the season, but I'd sooner establish a reputation for fair play than cheat, personally.

[simmoram1995]

5 hours ago, LN747 said:

I never expected the refs to be so poor this season - not saying it’s why we haven’t made it this year , it didn’t affect Ipswich et al 

I know it goes with the L1 territory but that decision yesterday summed it up

No foul, covering defender, covering keeper , ref in good position…the list goes on

And the way they strut around like mini  Mike Riley’s 🤢 

They are just inept 

Maybe the new tv money will improve standards and give the Efl / refs more money training them up 

 

The problem is across the board. There’s a massive shortage of refs so the Football League promotes refs at an increased rate many are not many years out of Sunday or non league football so you end up with non league standard refs in the lower football leagues. It isn’t some stupid conspiracy it’s a simple fact that the quality of refs are sh** and football league is prioritising quantity rather than quality 

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Needlesh said:

Please no. I'd rather stay down.

It's bad enough this season. Jason Knight for instance needs to stop diving whether he's here or elsewhere. Does my head in. 

The refs are appalling, and I think we've had a shocking set of decisions over the season, but I'd sooner establish a reputation for fair play than cheat, personally.

It's not cheating to be 'in the ref's ear', we really don't press our case enough, it doesn't have to be abusive or too aggresive. But it needs to be immediate and insistent.

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

When I first started watching live football we had lardy, incompetent refs and linos from all over Europe come to the BBG often making poor decisions.  What we also had then - though we didn't really appreciate it - were players who helped run the game despite the referee.  You had very little diving (Franny excepted and the dirties generally), feigning injury, time wasting, rolling around, so called professional gamesmanship.  Players generally just got on with the game without moaning too much.  Watch old footage and it's a completely different (and much better imo) spectacle.

The sea change was the EPL and Sky money.  The influx of players from overseas (not all of whom added bad habits - Bergkamp, Ardiles, Eranio, Baiano - and many others, were hugely positive additions), the added/greater importance of money on businesses/clubs succeeding, the growth in a win at all costs attitude, the language - the refusal to call it out as cheating the essence of the sport, because TV/pundits don't want to damage the brand - pundits and TV coverage themselves offering greater exposure, technology that allows 20 cameras to a match, all played a part in raising the importance of the match officials and their individual decisions whilst diminishing their reputation, despite the fact that refs and linos now have more money and attention and training and technological help than they ever did before.

If we could somehow get back to the point where players helped officials by not falling down theatrically when Curtis coughed on them in the penalty area (ie cheating aka 'you made the ref make a decision'), if we could get back to the point of real men playing (mens) football and accepting life's slings and arrows and playing the game sportingly, of no pundits ever dissecting a ref's decision (or preferably no pundits) and just moving on, if we could abolish VAR which serves to question every decision the officials make, then we might start to get somewhere.  As there's fat chance of any of that ever happening we're largely stuck with what we've got until technology takes over completely.  And even then it'll be wrong.

 

Excellent post.

I'd also say that any fans that refuse to condemn their own players for cheating are complicit in the problem.

[CWC1983]

The clubs get to mark the ref's performance as part of the grade he/she gets for the game. 

It doesn't seem right. What if a club constantly gives a ref a high score, surely it could potentially influence their decision in future games. 

Likewise a low score. 

I would have thought that it should be done independently. 

[ilkleyram]

5 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

What I don't get is how bad they are at all levels in the English game. We have the most money in world football, yet the lowest standard of officiating. When there are international tournaments it's striking how vastly superior all the overseas officials than the English ones at the tournament.

They can't even use VAR properly. Here we have Stuart Atwell at Stockley Park not thinking this was a penalty, as Lindelhof moves his arm out to pretty much catch the ball and juggle with it. Though it's shocking neither ref nor linesman gave it anyway.

 

You’d imagine that somewhere in the lexicon of examples of refereeing errors there is a whole months worth of training devoted to the mistakes of Stuart Attwell - a referee over promoted initially, sent back to lower leagues to improve himself and then over promoted all over again.

One of the fundamental problems with VAR imo is that it encourages officials not to make decisions ‘because VAR will correct any errors’, which it patently does not.  It’s the same in cricket - umpires have stopped watching for ‘no balls’ now or deciding if batsmen have been run out or caught, because the technology will compensate for their indecision. Football is going the same way.

 

[uttoxram75]

8 hours ago, Crewton said:

That was enough to earn Marvin Johnson a penalty and Curtis a red card.

It's that inconsistency which is killing the game.

The refs have been very consistent all season.

Consistently against Derby. 

[Wolfie]

20 hours ago, alram said:

they are crap in the premier league, did you expect the quality to be better two divisions lower?

 

and people need to knock off the efl agenda stuff, it is idiotic. the refs are just incompetent and useless

Agreed. We had plenty of L1 fans coming here in peace last season & warning us about how crap the referees are.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Let's go the whole hog and get AI to do the refereeing.

RefGPT.

Then the hilarious mistakes and misunderstanding can be laughed at as proof the we know better than the machine as we forge a future towards a distopian hellscape of our own making.

Knowing out luck they'd train the AI using the brain of Andu D'urso.

[TuffLuff]

I think I ended up summing up my own thoughts whilst attempting a non-bias chat with my Wednesday mate whilst playing 5 a side, paraphrased as:

Him: That peno looked a bit soft to be honest 

Me: Yeah I think it was overall but that’s what happens when we have to rely on a 38 year old captain who isn’t really match fit and hasn’t been probably all season. We were in a desperate position and gave the ref a decision to make.

Which I think there is some truth to with some of the decisions. Yes, as a Derby fan, I think we had a lot against us this and have been unfairly treated in that respect. But how much comes from what was our issue all season? Look at the penalty Whyte conceaded against Bristol Rovers, again it’s not a pen imo, but a player gets the wrong side of an inexperienced player and the ref is under pressure. In that situation are the opposition targeting Whyte?
 

We had too many inexperienced players in the wrong position and too many who whilst experienced were putting themselves in a position that they needed to recover. So yeah I would question a lot of decisions that went against us this season, some refs were shockingly bad. But we have to ask what kept happening from a Derby perspective, and whether intentional or not we kept putting ourselves in a position to concede soft penalties.

[Rambam]

3 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I think I ended up summing up my own thoughts whilst attempting a non-bias chat with my Wednesday mate whilst playing 5 a side, paraphrased as:

Him: That peno looked a bit soft to be honest 

Me: Yeah I think it was overall but that’s what happens when we have to rely on a 38 year old captain who isn’t really match fit and hasn’t been probably all season. We were in a desperate position and gave the ref a decision to make.

Which I think there is some truth to with some of the decisions. Yes, as a Derby fan, I think we had a lot against us this and have been unfairly treated in that respect. But how much comes from what was our issue all season? Look at the penalty Whyte conceaded against Bristol Rovers, again it’s not a pen imo, but a player gets the wrong side of an inexperienced player and the ref is under pressure. In that situation are the opposition targeting Whyte?
 

We had too many inexperienced players in the wrong position and too many who whilst experienced were putting themselves in a position that they needed to recover. So yeah I would question a lot of decisions that went against us this season, some refs were shockingly bad. But we have to ask what kept happening from a Derby perspective, and whether intentional or not we kept putting ourselves in a position to concede soft penalties.

That might be true other than it was White who was fouled, not the other guy. On top of the penalty, he was booked! 

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Rambam said:

That might be true other than it was White who was fouled, not the other guy. On top of the penalty, he was booked! 

It doesn't matter if White was fouled or not. He's automatically given a yellow card. In the loss to Peterborough, White was tripped in the opposition box. The result? Goal kick to Bolton and a yellow card for White due to arguing.

[MarsdenRam]

The best we can hope for next year is for it to even out over the season.

[ilkleyram]

45 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It doesn't matter if White was fouled or not. He's automatically given a yellow card. In the loss to Peterborough, White was tripped in the opposition box. The result? Goal kick to Bolton and a yellow card for White due to arguing.

Blimey. That match v Bolton at Peterborough passed me by 🤣🤣😉

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

22 hours ago, Loftyhites said:

Ref Watch on Sky was quite interesting this morning. Usually Dermot Gallagher is diligent in defending his fellow referees but couldn’t justify the referees decision regarding Davies yesterday. He said that it wasn’t even a foul!

Regardless of referees though, we finished where we deserved in this division and another year here won’t do any harm. I’ve quite enjoyed this season.

We didn't.  We should have another 15 points on top of the 15 we cost ourselves

[Halifaxowl]

I’m a Wednesday fan and from my seat it looked a penalty in real time. I’m sat halfway line to the left of the away end 

Once he gives the pen the letter of the law says he has to be sent off. Davies denies a clear goal scoring opportunity and double jeopardy can’t save him as he’s been deemed not to have made an attempt for the ball.

Now when I’ve then seen it back at Ht on the replays it’s minimal contact at best and it’s soft

Although there was an element of karma given the penalty we never got at pride park a few years ago when Keogh made one of the best handball clearances I’ve ever seen from a centre half and the ref gave a corner

Best of luck next season

[curb]

22 hours ago, Needlesh said:

Please no. I'd rather stay down.

It's bad enough this season. Jason Knight for instance needs to stop diving whether he's here or elsewhere. Does my head in. 

The refs are appalling, and I think we've had a shocking set of decisions over the season, but I'd sooner establish a reputation for fair play than cheat, personally.

I don’t particularly like Wildsmith for this reason. Good shot stopper, but He’s got the goalkeeper lurgy where their first thought is to waste time. Catch the ball then dive on the ground with it. Embarrassing, if we’re going to be consistent then call our own players out for it as well.

Edited May 9, 2023 by curb

[Ram-Alf]

59 minutes ago, Halifaxowl said:

I’m a Wednesday fan and from my seat it looked a penalty in real time. I’m sat halfway line to the left of the away end 

Once he gives the pen the letter of the law says he has to be sent off. Davies denies a clear goal scoring opportunity and double jeopardy can’t save him as he’s been deemed not to have made an attempt for the ball.

Now when I’ve then seen it back at Ht on the replays it’s minimal contact at best and it’s soft

 

Best of luck next season

So you were a good distance away and of course a Wednesday fan 😁

Keith Hacket(Sheff Wed fan)and Dermot Gallagher on Skys Ref Watch on Monday and both ex prem refs said there was no clear goal scoring opportunity as the player was chasing a ball that was not going towards the goal, We had our keeper and defender in front of the goal, 3 Sky pundits all agreed no pen and no sending off.

Our problem is the tool in the middle thought otherwise 

 

[Curtains]

s***