Knight, Bird and Sibley

[TomTom92]

14 minutes ago, Diego said:

Absolutely no bite to his game whatsoever. Never been a captain.

Can't help but compare him to Thorne and Bielik which may be unfair but is top end championship/premier league level. He's nowhere near that level but can't help but think he'd do an ok job at a mid table championship team. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

3 hours ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

We can’t score goals. Sibley can score goals. Maybe play Sibley in a position where he can score goals. We tried this for one game and he scored goals. Maybe try it again? Although to be fair we did give him another 45 minutes so probably best not to bother again. 

Definitely this. 
 

I can’t get my head around us not playing a player who likes to shoot and score. A player who likes to run at the opposition and cause problems. 
 

Sibley must be so frustrated and annoyed he’s not regularly in the starting 11. 

[RoyMac5]

44 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

...Put yourself in Warne’s shoes for a moment, you’ve got to get Sibley in his best role as you suggest in our current squad, what formation would you use?

How did Cocu play him?

[Steadybreeze]

15 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Our three jewels were all better playera during Phillip Cocu’s first season in charge.

They haven’t kicked on at all.

Put it down to managerial changes, the club situation, relegation…

But those three were tipped to become £10million+ PL regulars.

Now they don’t even stand out in League One.

I hope for their sake they move on and fulfill their potential elsewhere because I just can’t see it happening at Derby.

Put the three together and you'd have one decent footballer. They haven't kicked on because I don't think they are that good. All should have decent careers but not in the top leagues. 

I'd love to be proved wrong mind.

[Curtains]

Just now, Steadybreeze said:

Put the three together and you'd have one decent footballer. They haven't kicked on because I don't think they are that good. All should have decent careers but not in the top leagues. 

I'd love to be proved wrong mind.

They are all good players that can progress but Warne needs to use midfield more not tell them to hoof it past them at every opportunity 

[Caerphilly Ram]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How did Cocu play him?

That doesn’t answer the question does it Roy? You regularly share views about what Warne is doing wrong, and I’m genuinely interested in how you think it can be improved, but that’s rarely fully articulated, instead you just throw further questions back at posters, it’s a bit like a politician’s answer at times.

Cocu had a different set of players available to him at the time so it’s not comparable to how Sibley could be used in this side. Sibley carries a goal threat as we’ve all agreed, so he should play further forward, fair enough, what I don’t see is how Warne makes that work. 

If the consensus is Sibley plays as a 10, then logic suggests playing him just behind our best striker, who we all agree is clearly McGoldrick. McGoldrick would then need to play as a typical number 9, which would mean sacrificing elements of his own game to accommodate Sibley, would that work? Alternatively you could play McGoldrick and Sibley as two 10’s behind Collins as the 9, which means leaving out NML/Barkhuizen/Dobbin and sacrificing width unless we have the players to effectively be wingbacks, maybe Roberts and NML could do that and that would work? Be exciting to see it for sure. 
If Sibley can’t be accommodated as a 10 would it work to use him as one of the wide players in the forward line, he’s got the attributes to do so from the left beating a man on the outside and crossing in, or from the right cutting in on his left but would probably need an overlapping right back to draw the defenders to create space. 
The way I see it, the challenge with accommodating Sibley in his best position, or Knight or Bird for that matter lies once again in the imbalance of our squad. We’ve got too many players of a similar ilk in central midfield, a lack of the right type of striker and no right backs. Perhaps with another summer of recruitment we’d see a side that can get the best out of all of them, however the restrictions we’re under may well see some or all of them leave and we’ll always be wondering what if? 

[RoyMac5]

12 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

That doesn’t answer the question does it Roy? You regularly share views about what Warne is doing wrong, and I’m genuinely interested in how you think it can be improved, but that’s rarely fully articulated, instead you just throw further questions back at posters, it’s a bit like a politician’s answer at times.

I get paid £50000/week to manage a football team - not! How could I prove if I come up with better formation? I wouldn't have signed so and so, I'd have played so and so, to what end is there in saying that? However after watching the way we are playing and the way things are going wrong I see no problem saying 'that's not working'! But I don't have the possibility to choose the team.

[Caerphilly Ram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I get paid £50000/week to manage a football team - not! How could I prove if I come up with better formation? I wouldn't have signed so and so, I'd have played so and so, to what end is there in saying that? However after watching the way we are playing and the way things are going wrong I see no problem saying 'that's not working'! But I don't have the possibility to choose the team.

I know you don’t have the possibility in choosing the team in reality, I’m once again just trying to engage you in a more constructive dialogue to understand your perspective. I’m not asking you to prove you can come up with anything other than a slight expansion on the views you’ve shared.

You’ve said Sibley should play, I was wondering how you think Warne should accommodate Sibley in the side, at whose expense and in what formation do you think it would be most effective given the options within the playing staff. It’s not an argument, it’s not a trap, it’s not a challenge of sorts, I’m genuinely interested in knowing how you and others think Warne can/should get Sibley into the side to help with the goals.
One other thought I’ve got is could Warne play him up top with McGoldrick, using them both as the front 2 in the same sort of formation as yesterday. Sibley is then at the right end of the pitch to take on some shots, has the legs and energy to press and run the channels to create space for McGoldrick and then the option is there to bring Collins on for either one of them to see the game out and save their legs. Not a permanent solution to the problem but could see us through this final bit of the season carrying a bit more threat.

[RoyMac5]

41 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

One other thought I’ve got is could Warne play him up top with McGoldrick, using them both as the front 2 in the same sort of formation as yesterday. Sibley is then at the right end of the pitch to take on some shots, has the legs and energy to press and run the channels to create space for McGoldrick and then the option is there to bring Collins on for either one of them to see the game out and save their legs. Not a permanent solution to the problem but could see us through this final bit of the season carrying a bit more threat.

As good a way to try as any. But there needs to be a supply from midfield, I don't think Didzy is as effective when he drops deep, he's tempted to overplay.

As to Warne setting us up, he said this about the Oxford game "

"I'm really pleased because I know there are different ways to win and it showed a bit of grit - we've been a bit soft-centred in parts of our away performances this year," Warne added...

"I said to them after the game it's the best I've felt, everybody enjoying the win, everyone on the bench, everyone who came off cheering the lads on. It felt a real togetherness and you need that in a group."

He didn't stick with it long did he, a poor half against Fleetwood.

[Caerphilly Ram]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

As good a way to try as any. But there needs to be a supply from midfield, I don't think Didzy is as effective when he drops deep, he's tempted to overplay.

As to Warne setting us up, he said this about the Oxford game "

"I'm really pleased because I know there are different ways to win and it showed a bit of grit - we've been a bit soft-centred in parts of our away performances this year," Warne added...

"I said to them after the game it's the best I've felt, everybody enjoying the win, everyone on the bench, everyone who came off cheering the lads on. It felt a real togetherness and you need that in a group."

He didn't stick with it long did he, a poor half against Fleetwood.

Again it looks to be about the balance or lack of in the squad. He played Sibley as the 10 in a 4-2-3-1 in those games behind Collins then when McGoldrick came back in Sibley dropped out. Wonder if he thinks they’re too similar, in terms of occupying the same space on the pitch. I’d like to see him start Sibley with McGoldrick on Saturday, give one of them clear instructions to play as the “9”, or alternate. 

[nottingram]

4 hours ago, Derbados said:

I mean, playing Jason Knight at RB is like buying a Ferrari and putting a 30mph speed limiter on it, competent though he was. 

Knight will move on and become at PL player within the next 3-4 years, will probably be picked up by a top 6 Championship team this summer and kick on from there

Knight has a lot of qualities but he will not be a PL player until he shows he can score goals regularly.

2 goals is a really poor return for a player of his style. One of which was a header from a corner while playing right back.

[RodleyRam]

They all have talent but I think we have to accept they haven't been as good as we hoped they would be. I don't think the situation at the club has helped and I don't think we've figured out how to get the best out of them. The way we have handled Sibley seems odd to me. He might not be as good all round as the other two but he has demonstrated the ability to influence results. In a season where we've lacked cutting edge and the manager has said that goals win matches, we have under used him in my book. Knight and Bird are both very capable but haven't reached the levels I would have expected. If they all stay next season and we are in League 1 again, I would hope to see them kick on and influence games much more than they have this season.

[RodleyRam]

2 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Again it looks to be about the balance or lack of in the squad. He played Sibley as the 10 in a 4-2-3-1 in those games behind Collins then when McGoldrick came back in Sibley dropped out. Wonder if he thinks they’re too similar, in terms of occupying the same space on the pitch. I’d like to see him start Sibley with McGoldrick on Saturday, give one of them clear instructions to play as the “9”, or alternate. 

I have said it elsewhere but would be inclined to try both Sibley and Didzy as 10s behind Collins and get width from the full backs, of which one could be Knight, with license to get forward.

4-3-2-1

Edited April 11, 2023 by RodleyRam

[ivo_knoflicek]

Harsh to lump Bird in with this general criticism. His injury against West Ham was arguably the “sliding doors” moment of the season. We were on fire at that stage, with Bird (and Fozzy) first names on the team sheet, and a relatively settled team / formation week in week out. Now it seems it’s a case of drawing numbers out of a hat for the starting 11, then asking a cluster of colourblind hedgehogs in a bag to suggest who should play where…

[Caerphilly Ram]

17 minutes ago, RodleyRam said:

I have said it elsewhere but would be inclined to try both Sibley and Didzy as 10s behind Collins and get width from the full backs, of which one could be Knight, with license to get forward.

4-3-2-1

I wouldn’t mind seeing that, the “Christmas tree” formation…. with Collins as our angelic tree topper 😂 

It means benching NML, Barkhuizen and Dobbin but then Warne would have the option to bring them on and change the shape to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with ease…if only we could get him to consider it! 
Who would you want the midfield and back four to be? 

[RodleyRam]

3 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I wouldn’t mind seeing that, the “Christmas tree” formation…. with Collins as our angelic tree topper 😂 

It means benching NML, Barkhuizen and Dobbin but then Warne would have the option to bring them on and change the shape to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with ease…if only we could get him to consider it! 
Who would you want the midfield and back four to be? 

Bird, Hourihane and Smith/Knight in the middle. Roberts, Cashin, Fozzy, Smith/Knight at the back. Preference for Smith in midfield and Knight at RB as I happen to think that's where they've played their best for us this season.

Having NML, Barks and Dobbin off the bench to stretch teams in the last 20 mins is also appealing to me.

[Ghost of Clough]

Sibley

LB: 13 starts, 0 goals, 1 assist

LW: 1 start, 0 goals, 0 assists

CM/AM: 11 starts, 4 goals, 0 assists

Sub: 16 apps, 0 goals, 1 assist

[Archied]

15 hours ago, RodleyRam said:

I have said it elsewhere but would be inclined to try both Sibley and Didzy as 10s behind Collins and get width from the full backs, of which one could be Knight, with license to get forward.

4-3-2-1

That could work

[Ghost of Clough]

18 hours ago, RodleyRam said:

I have said it elsewhere but would be inclined to try both Sibley and Didzy as 10s behind Collins and get width from the full backs, of which one could be Knight, with license to get forward.

4-3-2-1

Since Warne will stick with 3/5 at the back from now on:

Wildsmith

???   Cashin   ???

???   Knight   Bird   Sibley   ???

???   McGoldrick

[RodleyRam]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Since Warne will stick with 3/5 at the back from now on:

Wildsmith

Rooney   Cashin   Fozzy 

NML   Knight   Bird   Roberts  

McGoldrick Sibley

Collins

Fair question. If he's really intent on 3 at the back then I guess you could go 3-4-2-1 as above to get my two no.10s in! Not a fan of it with the personnel we have though. I think it leaves the right hand side exposed defensively and lightweight in the middle where I genuinely think we need to play 3 as you have it in your 3-5-2. Personally, I don't see Sibley as a CM/no.8. The fact that you have question marks for most of the team tells it's own story for me! We really don't have a player at the club who you could call a wingback, so I don't really understand why we would shoehorn like this but I do understand it's PW's preference.

Alternative to the above is that Sibley plays LWB as per below but it wouldn't be my preference. 

Wildsmith

Rooney   Cashin   Fozzy 

NML   Knight   Bird   Houri  Sibley

Collins  McGoldrick

All this said, the performance against MK playing 3/5 was decent enough, so what the hell do I know! I would argue that their goal came from NML being asked to play at RWB and the lack of cutting edge could have been rectified by having Sibley on the pitch for longer but where he goes in a 3-5-2 is unclear. 

I just think we need to have a formation that suits the personnel and it would be nice to see a side with Bird, Sibley and Knight all in their most natural roles.

I accept I'm just playing football manager and the likelihood of Sibley, Knight and Bird all being here next season is remote, so we'll probably never know!