Shamima Begum bid to regain UK citizenship rejected

[sage]

20 minutes ago, cstand said:

How can they afford to pay people traffickers if they are asylum seekers?

Also why would they choose a country that certain people claim on a regular basis is systematically racist?

What has asylum seeking got to do with economics?

Many gave English as a second language. They have family here or  worked for the British Army or government.

In terms of Ukraine, we have taken 81,000 refugees and Germany has taken 1 million.

Other countries are better run.

[sage]

1 hour ago, sage said:

What has asylum seeking got to do with economics?

Many gave English as a second language. They have family here or  worked for the British Army or government.

In terms of Ukraine, we have taken 81,000 refugees and Germany has taken 1 million.

Other countries are better run.

Other countries haven't run out of tomatoes.

There may be a trend here

[Eddie]

36 minutes ago, sage said:

Other countries haven't run out of tomatoes.

There may be a trend here

[Eddie]

Marie Antoinette: "Let them eat cake"

Thérèse Coffey: "Let them eat turnips"

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, sage said:

The reason asylum seekers are paying traffickers is because the UK has made it almost impossible to enter the country legally to claim asylum. 

There needs to be an application centre at Calais for asylum seekers from certain countries.  

  How much for creating a fake passport to a high enough speck and any associated paperwork to show your from one of those countries. 

[sage]

54 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

  How much for creating a fake passport to a high enough speck and any associated paperwork to show your from one of those countries. 

Asking for a friend?

[sage]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Marie Antoinette: "Let them eat cake"

Thérèse Coffey: "Let them eat turnips"

Must try a cheese and turnip pizza tomorrow 

[Stive Pesley]

13 hours ago, cstand said:

How on earth can illegal immigrants who have paid people traffickers thousands of pounds to get to the UK be classed as asylum seekers?

It's not hard. They arrive in the country and claim asylum. That's how asylum seeking works. Feels like British exceptionalism to go round believing that somehow because we're an island we should have different standards of who we deem worthy to claim asylum here

Almost as if there aren't 26 European countries with open borders where they don't bat an eyelid at this kind of thing. It doesn't actually matter how you arrive - all claims of asylum are of equal worth and should be judged and accepted/rejected as appropriate.

As I say - not that hard a concept. 

Quote

I feel sorry for all the immigrants who want to enter this country be legal means. 

Again - a strange set of standards. You don't feel sorry for human beings, so desperate that they will pay silly money to criminals, and make a treacherous boat crossing in order for a sliver of a chance at a better life? Can you not just stop for a moment and empathise with them? Imagine how desperate you would have to be in order to make those choices?

[Ram-Alf]

9 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

  How much for creating a fake passport to a high enough speck and any associated paperwork to show your from one of those countries. 

Bless ya, Passports are ditched on advice from traffickers, No passports needed if you're being trafficked, You can be put in a boat at Calais at gunpoint and told to go, If you're in the back of a lorry you've not a clue which Country you're going to, 9 last week died in Bulgaria.

I know why the hotel in Liverpool was attacked, But you'll not here why from the police or the media...as this will give more ammunition to the "rabid right-wing" 2 demonstrations tomorrow in Sandiacre...Novatel hotel 1 for and 1 against using this hotel to house 400 migrants.

France are now co operating with the NCA at last, Gangs are being rounded up and put in prison awaiting sentencing, The head of one gangs a Kurd lived in a Novatel hotel in Chelmsford, Now fighting extradition to France case is in April and has free legal advice. 

Another gang that has been smashed by the NCA, Only to be filled by another.

https://nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/kurdish-gang-ran-sophisticated-and-lucrative-people-smuggling-ring

[Anon]

40 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Again - a strange set of standards. You don't feel sorry for human beings, so desperate that they will pay silly money to criminals, and make a treacherous boat crossing in order for a sliver of a chance at a better life? Can you not just stop for a moment and empathise with them? Imagine how desperate you would have to be in order to make those choices?

No, I don't. If these people are so desperate, why on earth wouldn't they choose to not pay silly money to criminals to make a treacherous boat crossing and instead apply for asylum and the chance of a better life in one of the 26 European countries that apparently don't bat an eyelid at this kind of thing?

[Stive Pesley]

19 minutes ago, Anon said:

No, I don't. If these people are so desperate, why on earth wouldn't they choose to not pay silly money to criminals to make a treacherous boat crossing and instead apply for asylum and the chance of a better life in one of the 26 European countries that apparently don't bat an eyelid at this kind of thing?

The vast majority of them do. More British exceptionalism. 

[Wolfie]

17 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

The vast majority of them do. More British exceptionalism. 

I don't think it is. it's more the principle that to get to the channel, they've gone through any number of safe countries where they could and should have applied for asylum. By not doing this, then they become economic migrants (legal or otherwise) and should be treated as such.

[sage]

30 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I don't think it is. it's more the principle that to get to the channel, they've gone through any number of safe countries where they could and should have applied for asylum. By not doing this, then they become economic migrants (legal or otherwise) and should be treated as such.

If your second language is English and/or you have relatives here why would you want to go to Spain or Germany?

I would add that the mainland European countries have taken more than us and benefits are higher in many of those countries. 

 

[Ram-Alf]

12 hours ago, Eddie said:

The BBC forgot to red Eire and the Netherlands too ? as they are suffering shortages,  As these Countries didn't support the home growers where very expensive fuel was needed to keep their very very large greenhouses open and working 24-7 so were shut down, The head of this growers organisation warned the Government of the consequences if support was not given...hence yet more expensive food for the shopper, One Londis shop in Derby is sending staff around other supermarkets in Derby to source veg and sell at a healthy profit 

Morocco and Sothern Spain had very cold night snaps this last few weeks, Our supply chain isn't as good as those in the EU...I wonder why ? 

[Stive Pesley]

59 minutes ago, sage said:

If your second language is English and/or you have relatives here why would you want to go to Spain or Germany?

I would add that the mainland European countries have taken more than us and benefits are higher in many of those countries. 

 

Exactly - it's tiring that you have to keep making these points, only for them to be ignored again and again

British exceptionalism fuelled by the gutter press who like to push these people's  buttons

 

[Leeds Ram]

23 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I recall one interview with a deradicalisation expert who had interviewed her. 

He spoke at the optimism there was that she could be deradicalised, she was a very good candidate for the program and felt her language and outlook was very much the kind of fit for someone who would respond well to the program. 

Put in context she still was part of a violent, extremist organisation who exert a lot of influence over her and similar positioned people, yet she was prepared to hint that she wanted a way out. She obviously was very cautious about speaking her mind, because she knew those same people were listening to her words. 

So when people are very critical about her current threat level, the experts seemed to be of a different opinion entirely. 

De-radicalisation is a tricky field with lots of varying opinions in it tbh- you just have to look at how people view the PREVENT strategy and the alternatives to know that. It would be interesting to see the consensus on the Begum case though. I don't even think people think she couldn't be de-radicalised, rather that it's reasonable to assume she may still present a threat to security. Even by being included in a de-radicalisation programme in the first place, you can make an argument she is deemed a threat. She wanted a way out when she was in a refugee camp after the 'caliphate' was no more than a few square kilometres wide... it's easier to want out of an organisation when it's basically been destroyed. 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/shamima-begum-is-no-victim-and-i-should-know/ here is an interesting piece by someone who actually knows her a little bit. 

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, sage said:

If your second language is English and/or you have relatives here why would you want to go to Spain or Germany?

If you're a genuine asylum seeker / refugee, why wouldn't you?. Or indeed any safe country before you get to Spain or Germany?

 

[Wolfie]

45 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Exactly - it's tiring that you have to keep making these points, only for them to be ignored again and again

Couldn't agree more

45 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

British exceptionalism fuelled by the gutter press who like to push these people's  buttons

 

 "If you don't agree with me then you must be a Sun reading xenophobic knuckle dragger". Nice.

"These people" ?

[sage]

20 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

If you're a genuine asylum seeker / refugee, why wouldn't you?. Or indeed any safe country before you get to Spain or Germany?

 

Why do you think someone from Syria or Afghanistan wants to come to the UK? 

[sage]

35 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

If you're a genuine asylum seeker / refugee, why wouldn't you?. Or indeed any safe country before you get to Spain or Germany?

 

I agree. If I had to flee my country in fear of my life, travelling alone and afraid. I wouldn't want to find a country where my relatives are or where I understood the language, I'd just try and settle somewhere on my own, with no family support or any idea about anything written or spoken.