Shamima Begum bid to regain UK citizenship rejected

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

It wasn't meant as a slur (unlike woke - which is always used as a slur it seems) - In this case I was using it in the recognised political form. Nationalism and opposition to immigration is an element of Right Wing politics. That's an inarguable fact. I wasn't even saying it was a bad thing. I was literally saying I respected the poster for being honest that he had strong nationalist tendencies

 

I differ from you in in the way I see it , there are lots of people concerned about where we are on our immigration policies who are not looking at it through nationalist and or anti immigration perspective and to lump it under that broad umbrella is where I disagree with you using the cover all right wing term in the same way people use the term woke , I think it’s a habit people have got into using these terms without though though they are also used by a lot of people to just label and close down debate,

take me , I’m not particularly nationalistic unless it’s Scotland playing football , I’m certainly not anti immigration in fact I hope I’m sensible and balanced enough to know we need immigration on lots of levels not only the fact that it enriches our society but we have an aging population, immigration can boost our economy ect ect ect BUT it needs to be handled properly with long term policies regards housing ,infrastructure, services , healthcare and educational provisions , the background and motives of people coming in not only for the good of citizens already in the U.K. but also for those coming in 

that is not happening now and let’s be honest it’s the poorest in our country who bare the brunt of this not the upper classes and the middle classes who are largely unaffected but jump on some moral high horse and dismiss real concerns of people as simple right wing for want of a better word racists , im not saying this is you but it’s far more complex just right wing umbrella 

[1of4]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

You keep to reading the Morning Star, Comrade. I dont want you drifting to the moderate middle ground.

I've never claimed or want to stand on the middle ground, so don't worry I'm sure I won't be drifting off towards it anytime soon. Unlike some who purport to have no political leanings but who's views now make them believe that a person with modicum of socialism is a raving left-wing loony.

[Comrade 86]

I watched the BBC documentary last night which was surprisingly even-handed. I had expected it to be a deal more pro-Begum than proved to be the case. When Begum, towards the end lapses into self-pity, the interviewer curtly leaves her in no doubt that she brought this on herself, irrespective for the rights and wrongs of her being rendered stateless. Whilst I believe the makers have sympathy for the 15 year old girl, they apparently have very little for the Isis sympathiser and rightly so. FWIW, I found the film to be well thought out and quite revealing, but will leave others to form their own opinions. One thing I will touch upon though, that I was not aware of at the time, was that the police knew that the girls were being radicalised and claimed to have wanted to speak to the girls' parents. Their chosen means of contact - they handed letters to each of the three girls themselves - was, however, astoundingly ill-judged and asks some very awkward questions about their motivations which remain unanswered to this day. It beggars belief that they would not know that the girls would not pass on the letters and that, in reality, their actions would simply encourage the them further. Again, people can draw their own conclusions as to why the security services might have chosen this course of action rather than simply contacting the parents directly.

Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001j079

As regards the current status, I believe Begum should be brought home, tried and sentenced according to the law of the land. I see no reason why she should be treated differently to any other British national who either supported, or fought with Isis. Whilst there may be provisions to render British citizens stateless, why are they being applied in this case and no other? Thus far, despite consenting to be interviewed for the above documentary, Sajid Javid, the former Secretary of State, has provided no plausible explanation for this and comes out of this very poorly as a consequence. Equally, I concur with those stating that Begum was a child in both literal and legal terms and that she was indeed trafficked. To suggest otherwise is rather silly, when in this regard, we do have all the factual evidence required to make an informed judgement. Equally, I do agree that she was radicalised and betrayed her country and whilst a prison term is quite rightly mandatory, should she be allowed to return, she has wrought a severe punishment on herself already, albeit unwittingly and this too should be taken into account.

[Comrade 86]

17 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Dear Jimmy

Can you fix it for me to return to the UK, so I can enjoy your wonderful benefit system.

Love x

Shamima (Age 23)

 

3 hours ago, i-Ram said:

You keep to reading the Morning Star, Comrade. I dont want you drifting to the moderate middle ground.

Back to poke the fire you ask ?

Edited February 23, 2023 by 86 Hair Islands

[sage]

58 minutes ago, Anon said:

Illegal immigration is what was written. Never mind, I'm certain the word "illegal" mysteriously vanishing from Stive's reply was an honest mistake.

Almost all asylum seekers to the UK because we have removed almost all legal ways to enter the country. 

[i-Ram]

35 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Back to poke the fire you ask ?

Not hypocrisy on my part old chum. I didn't start the thread as bait. I'm just having my little nibble here and there for my own amusement.

[Stive Pesley]

11 minutes ago, sage said:

Almost all asylum seekers to the UK because we have removed almost all legal ways to enter the country. 

Exactly - no point in getting moist about about the word "illegal" is there. There is nothing illegal about trying to claim asylum (which is what it really comes down to). 

 

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Not hypocrisy on my part old chum. I didn't start the thread as bait. I'm just having my little nibble here and there for my own amusement.

For you old chum, anything and everything is 'bait'. This isn't for the majority though as I think it even divides the liberals amongst us. And let's have it right, I'd be hard pushed to post anything non-footy related that would not result in a 'nibble' from you and Muscle Mary ?

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by 86 Hair Islands

[Crewton]

I'll save my sympathies for the Yazidi and other women and girls abused by both the male AND female members of IS.

Begum's lawyers and supporters can look after her. 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

 

that is not happening now and let’s be honest it’s the poorest in our country who bare the brunt of this not the upper classes and the middle classes who are largely unaffected but jump on some moral high horse and dismiss real concerns of people as simple right wing for want of a better word racists , im not saying this is you but it’s far more complex just right wing umbrella 

Yes those poor mothers in Kegworth are going to have to deal with refugees from Monday, And those poor people that worked there are now going to lose their jobs...unless they'd like to work in the kitchen

https://www.itv.com/news/central/2023-02-23/leicester-hotel-temporarily-closing-to-help-home-office-house-asylum-seekers

 

[Comrade 86]

57 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I'll save my sympathies for the Yazidi and other women and girls abused by both the male AND female members of IS.

Begum's lawyers and supporters can look after her. 

Not seen a great deal of sympathy for Begum, more the opposite to be honest. Equally, I'm not sure that sympathy for her and the Yazidi need be exclusive either. Perfectly possible to feel varying degrees of sympathy for both, though I concede that the latter warrant it more. 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, The Last Post said:

Yes those poor mothers in Kegworth are going to have to deal with refugees from Monday, And those poor people that worked there are now going to lose their jobs...unless they'd like to work in the kitchen

https://www.itv.com/news/central/2023-02-23/leicester-hotel-temporarily-closing-to-help-home-office-house-asylum-seekers

 

I’m not seeing any protests in places like Hampstead heath , guess those people are just more enlightened 

[Ram-Alf]

16 minutes ago, Archied said:

I’m not seeing any protests in places like Hampstead heath , guess those people are just more enlightened 

At a cost of £6.8million a day(Government figures)I doubt they could afford the hotels down that way. 

[RoyMac5]

3 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

One thing I will touch upon though, that I was not aware of at the time, was that the police knew that the girls were being radicalised and claimed to have wanted to speak to the girls' parents. Their chosen means of contact - they handed letters to each of the three girls themselves - was, however, astoundingly ill-judged and asks some very awkward questions about their motivations which remain unanswered to this day. It beggars belief that they would not know that the girls would not pass on the letters and that, in reality, their actions would simply encourage the them further. Again, people can draw their own conclusions as to why the security services might have chosen this course of action rather than simply contacting the parents directly.

Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001j079

Yes, I remember reading that some time ago, when it all kicked off I think, and was astounded by the Police. But obviously I wasn't surprised. 

[cstand]

3 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Exactly - no point in getting moist about about the word "illegal" is there. There is nothing illegal about trying to claim asylum (which is what it really comes down to). 

 

How on earth can illegal immigrants who have paid people traffickers thousands of pounds to get to the UK be classed as asylum seekers?
I feel sorry for all the immigrants who want to enter this country be legal means. 
 

As for Begum if she had gone to help fight for a right wing organisation I wonder how many of her supporters would want her back? 
 

Anyway I am just waiting for the climate migrant v asylum seekers debate to start. 
 

The WEF will decide quotas no doubt

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by cstand

[sage]

6 minutes ago, cstand said:

How on earth can illegal immigrants who have paid people traffickers thousands of pounds to get to the UK be classed as asylum seekers?
I feel sorry for all the immigrants who want to enter this country be legal means. 
 

The reason asylum seekers are paying traffickers is because the UK has made it almost impossible to enter the country legally to claim asylum. 

There needs to be an application centre at Calais for asylum seekers from certain countries.  

[cstand]

7 minutes ago, sage said:

The reason asylum seekers are paying traffickers is because the UK has made it almost impossible to enter the country legally to claim asylum. 

There needs to be an application centre at Calais for asylum seekers from certain countries.  

How can they afford to pay people traffickers if they are asylum seekers?

Also why would they choose a country that certain people claim on a regular basis is systematically racist?

Edited February 23, 2023 by cstand

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, cstand said:

How on earth can illegal immigrants who have paid people traffickers thousands of pounds to get to the UK be classed as asylum seekers?
I feel sorry for all the immigrants who want to enter this country be legal means. 
 

As for Begum if she had gone to help fight for a right wing organisation I wonder how many of her supporters would want her back? 
 

Anyway I am just waiting for the climate migrant v asylum seekers debate to start. 
 

The WEF will decide quotas no doubt

You Ok babes? x

[cstand]

3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

You Ok babes? x

Fine and dandy

[Comrade 86]

12 minutes ago, cstand said:

How can they afford to pay people traffickers if they are asylum seekers?

When seeking asylum, host countries don't preclude you on the basis of net worth, rather the risk of persecution or worse were you to remain in your homeland or be repatriated. Asylum seekers are not necessarily, or by implication, without financial means, but they are oftentimes forced to give everything they own to traffickers in order to secure a route out of their country. I think you have rather misunderstood the aims of many, probably because you assume that they are only coming so they can sign on the rock and roll.

13 minutes ago, cstand said:

Also why would they choose a country that certain people claim on a regular basis is systematically racist?

I think the word you're looking for might be 'systemically' and whilst only a fool would pretend the UK has no issues on that score, it's a deal better than most, irrespective of that fact. Again you making an assumption that the two scenarios are mutually exclusive. They are not.