Shamima Begum bid to regain UK citizenship rejected

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

The what ifs were basically the same as the actual situation being discussed. Just the countries switched round.

It wasn't really comparable though, because if foreigners commit crimes in THIS country, they're tried in this country and, if convicted, serve their sentences in this country unless their own country agrees they can complete their sentence there. Afterwards, the government may have the problem of deporting them if they've subsequently been made stateless, but that's another argument. 

Begum's situation is entirely different to the "what if" presented. 

[Bob The Badger]

13 hours ago, The Last Post said:

Wow that's a curve ball, It was to stop parents taking their children to foreign lands to get married...ir forced, How can the British Government stop families taking their Children abroad...here's an idea...take their passports off them.

 Sailed through Parliament yesterday...Next.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61228240

Ah, I see what you're doing now.

Taking your opinion online to find support, half-reading/understanding something that you think does that and then throwing a link up as some sort of *proof*.

I heard Pauline Latham interviewed yesterday and she said it was all driven by them asking another Government to stop the practice of allowing marriages and them being told we couldn't ask that when we allow 16-year-olds to get married.

I'm pretty sure it was Bangladesh.

My point in bringing this up was to point out hypocrisy from our Government, I've no clue what your point was. But tbh reading back through some of your posts I have no clue what you're talking about most of the time.

Maybe I'm playing draughts and you're busy playing 5D chess.

End of...

Next.

I await your next sign off with bated breath. 

 

[Bob The Badger]

30 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It wasn't really comparable though, because if foreigners commit crimes in THIS country, they're tried in this country and, if convicted, serve their sentences in this country unless their own country agrees they can complete their sentence there. Afterwards, the government may have the problem of deporting them if they've subsequently been made stateless, but that's another argument. 

Begum's situation is entirely different to the "what if" presented. 

It's not another argument, it's very much part of the argument.

Somebody of that age will get out presuming they even go to jail and they don't get off somehow.

You need to know what you're going to do at that stage.

When you start stripping nationals of their citizenship, you need to understand the long-term ramification and whether that may come back to bite you down the line.

There are good reasons why countries don't always just do what is in their short-term political interest and that is because of the long-term consequences.

If we expect other countries to deal with our criminals because we won't have them back then we must be prepared for it to happen to us.

If she had been dumped on us by another country people would be up in arms, ESPECIALLY the right wing. They'd be going absolutely apeshite

[Crewton]

7 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

It's not another argument, it's very much part of the argument.

Somebody of that age will get out presuming they even go to jail and they don't get off somehow.

You need to know what you're going to do at that stage.

When you start stripping nationals of their citizenship, you need to understand the long-term ramification and whether that may come back to bite you down the line.

There are good reasons why countries don't always just do what is in their short-term political interest and that is because of the long-term consequences.

If we expect other countries to deal with our criminals because we won't have them back then we must be prepared for it to happen to us.

If she had been dumped on us by another country people would be up in arms, ESPECIALLY the right wing. They'd be going absolutely apeshite

It's still a different case than the one you put forward. There were over 1,300 Albanian nationals alone in UK prisons last year - they were tried, sentenced and imprisoned here, which is exactly what would happen to your French IRA terrorist. The government often has difficulty repatriating foreign criminals after they've completed their sentences, because we have a legal system which (for now, at least) complies with the ECHR. I wouldn't mind betting that quite a few of those Albanians never go back to Albania, no matter how much we might want to deport them, even though they're unlikely to have their Albanian citizenship revoked and the Albanian government may well be pleased to see them again.

These examples are completely different to Shamima Begum, who is unlikely to ever stand trial in the country in which she is alleged to have committed human rights violations and been complicit in war crimes.

Look at the furore this week over the man who was due to be deported back to Jamaica, but was one of those who escaped deportation because the government got the process wrong and the Court refused to sanction the flight. He went on to murder a man in a drugs dispute and was sentenced this week. The failure to remove a dangerous criminal from the UK eventually cost another man his life. Due process is important, but some of these decisions have unintended consequences.

[Stive Pesley]

Let's be honest - there are multiple questions in play

1) should she have been stripped off her citizenship?

For me it's a fundamental no. Based on precedent, we shouldn't strip anyone of their citizenship

2) is what she did wrong?

Obviously yes

3) was she a child when she made the decisions that led her down that path

Obviously yes

I don't think 2 and 3 are really up for debate. Saying "yes she was a child BUT" is a dangerous road to go down

We should just concentrate on question 1

 

 

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

It's still a different case than the one you put forward. There were over 1,300 Albanian nationals alone in UK prisons last year - they were tried, sentenced and imprisoned here, which is exactly what would happen to your French IRA terrorist. The government often has difficulty repatriating foreign criminals after they've completed their sentences, because we have a legal system which (for now, at least) complies with the ECHR. I wouldn't mind betting that quite a few of those Albanians never go back to Albania, no matter how much we might want to deport them, even though they're unlikely to have their Albanian citizenship revoked and the Albanian government may well be pleased to see them again.

Yeh they do have a few who they struggle to repatriate, but we'd have 1,300 here if the Albanians took their citizenship away, so you made my point for me

[Crewton]

1 minute ago, Bob The Badger said:

Yeh they do have a few who they struggle to repatriate, but we'd have 1,300 here if the Albanians took their citizenship away, so you made my point for me

They're not terrorists though, and they haven't declared war on Albania, so it's not likely ?

[Norman]

Question. Why do some of you have to be such dicks to other people who have a different opinion?

[Bob The Badger]

7 minutes ago, Norman said:

Question. Why do some of you have to be such dicks to other people who have a different opinion?

Says the mam who attacked nurses during lockdown for taking time out to record a Tik Tok video.

[Brammie Steve]

1) Go to BBC iplayer

2) Search Silent Witness Series 19 episode 3

3) Watch the Program (title 'Flight')

4) Note disturbing similarities following 'coming home'

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, Norman said:

Question. Why do some of you have to be such dicks to other people who have a different opinion?

I think the way you label your intended targets as 'dicks' really makes this a hugely compelling argument. ?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by 86 Hair Islands
Holiday avoidance measures

[ariotofmyown]

31 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

I think the way you label your intended targets as 'dicks' really makes this a hugely compelling argument. ?

 

 

 

 

I think you missed the deliberate irony. At least I hope it was that.

[Stive Pesley]

5 hours ago, Norman said:

Question. Why do some of you have to be such dicks to other people who have a different opinion?

Have you ever been a dick on here to someone who disagreed with you? 

[Comrade 86]

19 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I think you missed the deliberate irony. At least I hope it was that.

[Norman]

Well, I didn't expect to be taken so seriously.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

Well, I didn't expect to be taken so seriously.

Not much danger of that mi ol' dench tuna ?

[Brammie Steve]

11 hours ago, Norman said:

Well, I didn't expect to be taken so seriously.

One man's jest is another man's insult!

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Brammie Steve

[ramsbottom]

Just for the record, I'm a pretty big lefty when it comes to most things, but she can do one as far as I'm concerned.  She made her bed, now she can lie in it.  

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, ramsbottom said:

Just for the record, I'm a pretty big lefty when it comes to most things, but she can do one as far as I'm concerned.  She made her bed, now she can lie in it.  

I think she does, As where she is there's no maid service?

[Norman]

16 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Not much danger of that mi ol' dench tuna ?

Don't lie, boi. 

You had to edit your post to stop yourself getting another ban.