The Sibley Enigma

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, jono said:

I just don’t see that, or rather maybe you don’t see the through hardened alloy steel that knight puts in our team ? The ground he covers, the tackles he wins the drive and determination he gives to the whole unit for 90 minutes. It’s not goals and assists, he’s the energy source, the fulcrum, the beating heart across the length and breadth of the pitch. 

That's the theory. Don't think he's looked at his better for a lot of his play this season, particularly his last few games, one or two games he's really shone. But maybe I'm mis-remembering. We miss Birdy much more.

ps I watched John McGovern play.

Edited March 13, 2023 by RoyMac5

[RoyMac5]

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Jubbs]

What I think would work and is probably the way Warne wants to shape his team eventually after a transfer market or two, is how he started this season under Rotherham in a 3-1-4-2/3-5-2.

Essentially Bird (in Rotherham's case Barlaser), shielding the back 3, whilst two 8's/10's have the licence to get forward, in our case I think Knight and Sibley are pretty much tailor-made for that role. I don't think we currently have the wing backs to use this formation yet and I imagine that could be one of Warne's priorities in the future windows.

[nottingram]

12 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

What I think would work and is probably the way Warne wants to shape his team eventually after a transfer market or two, is how he started this season under Rotherham in a 3-1-4-2/3-5-2.

Essentially Bird (in Rotherham's case Barlaser), shielding the back 3, whilst two 8's/10's have the licence to get forward, in our case I think Knight and Sibley are pretty much tailor-made for that role. I don't think we currently have the wing backs to use this formation yet and I imagine that could be one of Warne's priorities in the future windows.

I agree but other option would be Sibley in the front 2.

Would be a big call to drop Hourihane I think who will probably end the season with 20+ goal contributions and is underrated defensively. Might not get 46 games out of him next season anyway I suppose, and would imagine Knight is gone if we don’t go up. So there will also be spaces in midfield too. 

[Jubbs]

13 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Sibley in the front 2.

Not a big fan of this. Sibley imo is best when he has space to run into, we've seen him up front before but I just don't think he has the tools. I don't even think the 10 is Sibley's position, he's better as an 8 so he has that space to run into.

[angieram]

1 hour ago, nottingram said:

I agree but other option would be Sibley in the front 2.

Would be a big call to drop Hourihane I think who will probably end the season with 20+ goal contributions and is underrated defensively. Might not get 46 games out of him next season anyway I suppose, and would imagine Knight is gone if we don’t go up. So there will also be spaces in midfield too. 

Why is Hourihane under-rated defensively? Have you got some statistics to back this up?

I think he's much more effective further up the filed and his best form this season was when we allowed him to play there. Since Bird has been out he's been tasked with covering more and I have watched every minute of every game so far and I just don't think he does this particularly well. I'm happy to be proved wrong if there's some evidence that says otherwise. 

 

 

[nottingram]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Why is Hourihane under-rated defensively? Have you got some statistics to back this up?

I think he's much more effective further up the filed and his best form this season was when we allowed him to play there. Since Bird has been out he's been tasked with covering more and I have watched every minute of every game so far and I just don't think he does this particularly well. I'm happy to be proved wrong if there's some evidence that says otherwise. 

 

 

Not really, just based on what I see. We did however go on a run of barely conceding a chance over what, 7-10 games with him and Bird playing deep in a 4-4-2 / 4-2-3-1.

I don’t think he goes around flying into tackles, clearly, but I think he is largely good at filling in little gaps. Bird is a big miss as well as those little gaps are a bit bigger when he is not playing.

My overriding point really was that I am unsure if Sibley would be able to help Bird out as much as Hourihane does / would when Knight does his pressing. That’s not anyone’s fault, I just don’t think it suits him. Whereas Hourihane I feel does have that little bit more positional discipline.

That’s the defensive side of it. I would also need some persuading that leaving out Hourihane and the 20 or so goals you might expect him to contribute to is a good thing going forward. 

I would however like Sibley in the team and not as a left back, and I do think Warne will try to move us to a 3 at the back next season so in that case it leaves the front 2. Doesn’t have to be as a Jack Marriott not doing anything outside the box, he can still do the things he’s good at. 

[Ramarena]

2 hours ago, Jubbs said:

What I think would work and is probably the way Warne wants to shape his team eventually after a transfer market or two, is how he started this season under Rotherham in a 3-1-4-2/3-5-2.

Essentially Bird (in Rotherham's case Barlaser), shielding the back 3, whilst two 8's/10's have the licence to get forward, in our case I think Knight and Sibley are pretty much tailor-made for that role. I don't think we currently have the wing backs to use this formation yet and I imagine that could be one of Warne's priorities in the future windows.

I get the feeling that while he likes Bird and will fit him into the team. Warne will be on the look out for a bit of a more agricultural midfielder for that position if possible, to rotate in and out depending upon the situation.

Someone who can get stuck in and wrestle back control through sheer physical force and determination, when things aren’t going our way, is highly valuable in this division.

It would also allow us to play Bird higher up in midfield, which he’s actually pretty good at.

[Premier ram]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

Why is Hourihane under-rated defensively? Have you got some statistics to back this up?

I think he's much more effective further up the filed and his best form this season was when we allowed him to play there. Since Bird has been out he's been tasked with covering more and I have watched every minute of every game so far and I just don't think he does this particularly well. I'm happy to be proved wrong if there's some evidence that says otherwise. 

 

 

totally agree Ange , Conor is far more effective further up the pitch

[Comrade 86]

On 11/03/2023 at 21:04, angieram said:

It's a bit unfortunate for Louie that his best position is the one currently occupied by our Player of the Season so far.

This is the bit that a few haven't always seemed to grasp. Super young player that he is, he's not at a place yet where he can displace the POTY in waiting. We all know what he's capable of, but he has to deliver it with the consistency he showed in his academy days. Those two strikes on Saturday were very much of that vintage and he certainly has the ability to fill the inevitable void when Didzy hangs up his boots. If, by some mad stroke of luck, we can hang onto Louie, Max and Jason for another couple of years, we definitely be in a better place than now and by a fair way, I reckon.

[kevinhectoring]

On 12/03/2023 at 09:04, jono said:

I’d rather Warne was how he is than another clichee ridden clone like so many managers we hear.

I’m making a serious point and sorry it’s made people angry. Careless talk by managers can pi$$ off players (duh) and I think he’s prone to trying to be cute and quirky without thinking how his comments resonate in the dressing room. It’s not about him. It’s all about the team, the club, the results. Don’t want a personality manager especially one on a long contract because if that’s what you’ve got and things don’t go to plan you’re not in a good place to fix them.  I just want him to be more boring it’s not a lot to ask

[DavesaRam]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

This is the bit that a few haven't always seemed to grasp. Super young player that he is, he's not at a place yet where he can displace the POTY in waiting. We all know what he's capable of, but he has to deliver it with the consistency he showed in his academy days. Those two strikes on Saturday were very much of that vintage and he certainly has the ability to fill the inevitable void when Didzy hangs up his boots. If, by some mad stroke of luck, we can hang onto Louie, Max and Jason for another couple of years, we definitely be in a better place than now and by a fair way, I reckon.

And that is the issue. For Sibley to produce the goods consistently he has to have a consistent run in his best position, something which he has never had since Rooney started to get a bit of a “down” on him, and maybe even Cocu before him.

As Ringo might put it “All we are saying is give him a chance”.

[RoyMac5]

56 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I’m making a serious point and sorry it’s made people angry. Careless talk by managers can pi$$ off players (duh) and I think he’s prone to trying to be cute and quirky without thinking how his comments resonate in the dressing room. It’s not about him. It’s all about the team, the club, the results. Don’t want a personality manager especially one on a long contract because if that’s what you’ve got and things don’t go to plan you’re not in a good place to fix them.  I just want him to be more boring it’s not a lot to ask

If a player is so easily pissed off with a manager then there's something wrong with the player. FFS it's a question of balance and if you know these players better than Paul Warne I'd be bloody amazed!

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

And that is the issue. For Sibley to produce the goods consistently he has to have a consistent run in his best position, something which he has never had since Rooney started to get a bit of a “down” on him, and maybe even Cocu before him.

As Ringo might put it “All we are saying is give him a chance”.

Didzy will only be around another season though, Dave and Sibbo has had the odd run, though I concede, far less than is probably warranted. I think sometimes he appears to be a bit lackadaisical and maybe managers mistake his demeanour for something that it's not. It's hard to explain why so many managers have overlooked him when all of us can see he's got bags of talent, but we're not seeing him in training and he might be one of those that trains like a donkey and only comes alive on game days. Who knows? Talented as he is though, he's still behind Didzy as it stands and I think that's fair enough.

[RoyMac5]

 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Didzy will only be around another season though, Dave and Sibbo has had the odd run, though I concede, far less than is probably warranted. I think sometimes he appears to be a bit lackadaisical and maybe managers mistake his demeanour for something that it's not. It's hard to explain why so many managers have overlooked him when all of us can see he's got bags of talent, but we're not seeing him in training and he might be one of those that trains like a donkey and only comes alive on game days. Who knows? Talented as he is though, he's still behind Didzy as it stands and I think that's fair enough.

He's had 2 consistent runs of starting games.

The first was under Cocu at the end of 19/20, in which he scored 5 and assisted 2 in 10 games (9 starts).

The second run was this season, with the majority of games played at LB.

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He's had 2 consistent runs of starting games.

The first was under Cocu at the end of 19/20, in which he scored 5 and assisted 2 in 10 games (9 starts).

The second run was this season, with the majority of games played at LB.

What's your point? I don't think any of the above Google stats are in dispute, are they?

If you believe he should play ahead of Didzy, fair enough. I don't.

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

Mcgoldrick’s been playing as a 9 mostly since the new year, play him and Sibley together, Sibley gives us more in terms of goals and assists from than Knight does, try Knight on the wing and have him, Sibley and one of the wingers providing energy and pace behind Mcgoldrick.

[ram59]

3 minutes ago, JustOneBiblicalKazim said:

Mcgoldrick’s been playing as a 9 mostly since the new year, play him and Sibley together, Sibley gives us more in terms of goals and assists from than Knight does, try Knight on the wing and have him, Sibley and one of the wingers providing energy and pace behind Mcgoldrick.

We need to utilise Sibley and his talent more. Look at some of his goals this season, the 2 on Saturday and the one in the cup spring to mind, how many top players can finish with such quality with their 'wrong' foot? None of them were a lucky swing, they were all very deliberate finishes. I've lost count of the number of times,  over the years, that I see a golden opportunity falling to a player on his 'wrong' foot, you before he's struck the ball that it'll have more chance of hitting the corner flag than the back of the net.

On that subject, for some years now clubs have been coaching kids from a very early age, why aren't they coached to be able to kick the ball with both feet?

[kevinhectoring]

5 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

If a player is so easily pissed off with a manager then there's something wrong with the player. FFS it's a question of balance and if you know these players better than Paul Warne I'd be bloody amazed!

It’s like stand up comedy and the manager has the microphone. He talks about the player to the media. If the player really objects to what he says, then that’s a problem in the dressing room. It’s not about knowing the players. It’s a bit more obvious than that