Gotta love Extinction Rebellion

[Rev]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

What does he suggest?

- China, India & others building literally 100s of new coal power stations

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2317274-china-is-building-more-than-half-of-the-worlds-new-coal-power-plants/

- richest 1% emit insane amount of carbon

https://www.oxfam.org.uk/media/press-releases/carbon-emissions-of-richest-1-set-to-be-30-times-the-15c-limit-in-2030/

- but I'm happy paying an extra £153 during a time of massively increasing energy bills to fund their lifestyle...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/what-is-green-levy-energy-124209601.html

- meanwhile at this years climate summit (populated by around 120 private jets)

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/cop26/cop26-carbon-footprint-climate-summit/

- I am however always pleased to be preached to by those condemning climate change inaction

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1642524/prince-harry-climate-change-private-jet-trips

https://www.statsjamie.co.uk/prince-harry-carbon-footprint/

 

What's your point here? 

Climate change is real, but there's fook all we can do about it because of the actions of others? 

I know we should do something, but because a rich, hypocritical man is preaching at me I won't bother?

 

[maxjam]

19 minutes ago, Rev said:

What's your point here? 

Climate change is real, but there's fook all we can do about it because of the actions of others? 

I know we should do something, but because a rich, hypocritical man is preaching at me I won't bother?

 

Pretty much yup. 

China used more coal in 2020 than the UK has used in total since 1978 and its due to build approx another 500 coal power stations by 2030.  We could reduce our carbon output to 0% but it would have little effect on world CO2 emissions whilst crippling our economy and way of life in the meantime. 

Do I believe that climate change is real?  Sure.  Do I think we should do something about it?  Yup.  But its not the average bloke in the street that is the problem is it?  Its the jet set elite class that fly around the world virtue signalling and developing nations that XR and Greta would never dare to protest in.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16658385/greta-thunberg-pollution-china-russia-brazil/

[Ram-Alf]

 TVs, Computers, BBQs, Trains, Planes and Automobiles ?, Work, Furniture, Consumables, Food, Fuel, Holidays, Cloths, Gas, Electric, Water.

All the above and more mankind use, Sri Lanka is on it's arse, Those who were in power wanted green farming, No artificial growth products, They were banned within 24 hours more or less, 7 months later those in power realised what a fcuk that was, Farmers weren't prepared, So they changed tack and said you can go back to how it was, Fcuking crazy, Tourism died, Who on here would go there free of charge, Put up in a 5 star hotel beer and food comes free, While there the locals go hungry...would you go, Not me that's for sure.

There's only 6 of the above I need, TV/Computer for entertainment...not really needed tho ?‍♀️, Gas/Electric for heat and light/entertainment, Food and water to survive...the rest come for our personal needs and wants.

Can one man change the world...of course he can, With a rifle and a bullet, But that's just crazy, It has to be a collective from those in power, But those in power give work, Produce what WE want and live in Palatial homes, Travel the world and meet the very same people.

Put it simply...WE'RE FCUKED! 

[Stive Pesley]

 

[SSD]

Extinction Rebellion can do whatever protesting they want. Until the Chinese and Indians stop building mass coal power stations, pumping all them tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere, we will never win the climate change battle. 

Granted we can all do our bit however our small country can do all the green eco friendly projects we want. If the big polluters can't be tackled head on and decide they want to live 50 years behind the times, it's a waste of breath. 

[BaaLocks]

15 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I think unless we get that nuclear fusion working, we're all going to fry. 

Or a way to harvest and store CO2 in massive quantities. The problem with climate change is that it is the boiling frog scenario in real life, it just gets one degree hotter every few years and we as humans don't have the capacity to recognise such slow change. On top of that, our political system is simply not set up to allow for long term programmes - fix it in five years or forget about it.

But, yes, I agree. I really see very little chance of us doing anything about climate change by reducing our current way of doing things. Just ain't going to happen.

[BaaLocks]

16 hours ago, Alpha said:

I'm very confident that doing things like this has the opposite effect of raising awareness or support. 

It does the opposite. It makes them look like the kind of attention seeking maniacs that spread conspiracy theories online all day. The Area51 the government are keeping aliens secret types. 

That's what they achieve. Turning something valid into something people will look at, shake their heads, call them loons and move on. 

They're not inspiring us or opening up conversations. They're creating barriers. 

A bit like the "if you're not anti racist then you're racist/ silence is violence" type stuff with BLM. 

Alienating people you want to win over is bizarre tactic which could lead us into the debates we had with Putin being pure evil or having valid concerns. 

You just can't alienate people and expect their understanding 

Protest has been a strong vehicle for change across history (Martin Luther King, suffragettes, Peterloo, Gandhi's salt marches, General Strike etc) and protest really only works when it challenges and frustrates. Which means that some people will end up inconvenienced but it's not a direct attempt to then change those people's views. It's more to force others to come to the table and talk about it. The Conservative leadership race shows clearly how our leaders view this as a topic for short term benefit - it's just not on their agenda because it doesn't drive tax cuts or an improved standard of living in the next election cycle. So it get's ignored alongside preference for short term guff about more money in our pockets etc, etc, etc.

As for not inspiring us - well we're into the second page of talking about it, which is more than would have happened if Caroline Lucas had tabled a motion via PMQs to consider setting up a working committee. I don't see them as maniacs, conspiracy theorists or radical militants at all - they are trying to get us to realise we are destroying the planet we live on, for us and for our children. Whether they, or any of us, can do anything about that I have serious doubts but at least they are trying.

[JoetheRam]

Is it worth asking why China and India produce so much CO2?

Manufacturing a large percentage of the crap that western consumers buy might be part of the reason? I mean they're not just burning resources for no reason are they?

Let's not kid ourselves that we don't just outsource our emissions (or even our carefully sorted recycling).

Capitalism requires continual growth to sustain itself and until it finds a way to exist without destroying the planet (my internal Commie says this is impossible, internal optimist says it might happen), or an as yet undeveloped, superior system is found, then we're not going to solve anything.

Edited July 20, 2022 by JoetheRam

[BaaLocks]

5 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Is it worth asking why China and India produce so much CO2?

Head. Nail. Hit.

[maxjam]

What are these people really hoping to achieve?

The UK has done a lot to lower it CO2 footprint;

https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-kingdom

And is currently taxing its citizens approx £150/yr in an attempt to lower it further by 2030;

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/environment-agency-reaching-net-zero-by-2030

Do they think annoying regular people going about their daily lives will do anything?  Really?

 

[Stive Pesley]

57 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Do they think annoying regular people going about their daily lives will do anything?  Really?

Yes - because as this thread repeatedly shows, people would rather get angry about protesters minimally disrupting their lives than they would get angry about the fact that humanity is on a crash course to extinction.

Things only change when people get angry enough to demand change

 

[maxjam]

Just now, Stive Pesley said:

Yes - because as this thread repeatedly shows, people would rather get angry about protesters minimally disrupting their lives than they would get angry about the fact that humanity is on a crash course to extinction.

Things only change when people get angry enough to demand change

So what can we change?

The target is already to reach net zero by 2030.  Thats 8 years.  What if we arbitrarily split the difference and bring it down to 4 years - how will people heat their homes, cook their food, get to work?  The infrastructure simply isn't there.

And lets for a moment assume all of that was possible - what about the 1000 extra coal power stations that have been built elsewhere around the world?  China didn't even attend the COP26 summit.

All this thread shows is protesters are aiming their anger at the wrong people.  

[Stive Pesley]

39 minutes ago, maxjam said:

So what can we change?

Well we could all stop voting for greedy psychopaths who care more about enriching themselves today than they do about the planet remaining habitable tomorrow, but that is a digression into the forbidden topic

40 minutes ago, maxjam said:

All this thread shows is protesters are aiming their anger at the wrong people.  

I still maintain it's the opposite. They have to impact the ordinary man in the street in order to facilitate change. Otherwise the ordinary man in the street just shrugs and prevaricates with his weak "what about china?" argument as an excuse for inaction

 

[Ram-Alf]

5 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

 They have to impact the ordinary man in the street in order to facilitate change. Otherwise the ordinary man in the street just shrugs and prevaricates with his weak "what about china?" argument as an excuse for inaction

 

The ordinary "man" in the street doesn't realise how influential he/she is, In General/local elections well below half of all voters care not to vote, Why is this...apathy, Education, In a stronghold where the sitting MP will not be beaten, I'm not talking mid term elections.

This is where the battle begins, Lets make voting compulsory...you can't do that...it's not Democratic, So how do you get people to vote, Financial encouragement, Beer tokens, Food stamps, In the UK Governments will win with a minority of the voting public.

The ordinary man...which I consider myself to be, I vote, I try not to use my car...only for shopping, Public transport for other ventures, I re cycle all my packaging, I flush brown down and let yellow mellow(after 3) in winter my thermostat is set at 18, Most likely even less this winter, I'm looking to moving into the backroom of my home and just running the 1 radiator, I never throw food away, Leftovers are frozen for another meal, When boiling the kettle for a coffee the kettle is only 1/8 full or a little more than a mug full.

This ordinary man if inconvenienced by ER will take the law into my own hands.   

 

[Stive Pesley]

8 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

This ordinary man if inconvenienced by ER will take the law into my own hands

It sounds like you should be standing in solidarity with them. You do your bit (and I have a very similar lifestyle) and they want everyone to be more like you. 

[therealhantsram]

18 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Can't believe anyone is moaning about the lack of coverage of the recent heatwave in the media, it's been absolutely non stop for the past week. 

If you listened to the BBCs reports there's not going to be any tomorrow. 

I've pissed off out of the country just to avoid it all. 

They are moaning about lack of coverage in the Murdock press, which if you look has indeed been dismissive. It's clear why they in particular were the target this time.

[Ram-Alf]

34 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

It sounds like you should be standing in solidarity with them. You do your bit (and I have a very similar lifestyle) and they want everyone to be more like you. 

I was at Orgreave in the early 80s, I was a Scargill follower, I had friends who went to support the workers at Newark power station, I hated Thatcher...and still do, Politics is for the rich now, Even Labour, There's only one good politician I know and that's a D**d one, They're a bunch of self serving trough eaters...imo, One who wants to tax the rich and one who wants to feed the rich...both have negatives, Tax the rich and you'll see job losses, Feed the rich and you'll see job losses.

We're not even pawns in this power game, We're chattel who are told what to do, When to do it, And how long for.

Serious question Steve, Is it right that ER block the M25, Stop all 999 services...life is at steak, All hospital/Doctors appointments are not met, Interviews didn't happen, Families were stopped from visiting families, 100s of other reasons and yet they target the Ordinary man.

I've done my bit for the Ordinary man over the years, Now just sitting quietly in retirement looking on at men smashing GB News/Sky windows to get on social media, Stop targeting the Ordinary man, There's legitimate targets out there in foreign lands, But to do that you need balls of steel...but we're an easy target with very little time spent in one of her Majesties hotels.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Unlucky Alf

[maxjam]

48 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Well we could all stop voting for greedy psychopaths who care more about enriching themselves today than they do about the planet remaining habitable tomorrow, but that is a digression into the forbidden topic

The current Govt plan is to reach net zero by 2030.  As I said in my previous posts even if we had the ability to move quicker than that other places around the world are increasing their carbon output and there is nothing the Tories nor Labour can do about that.

 

54 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I still maintain it's the opposite. They have to impact the ordinary man in the street in order to facilitate change. Otherwise the ordinary man in the street just shrugs and prevaricates with his weak "what about china?" argument as an excuse for inaction

Previous road blocks have prevented ambulances from making their journeys.  Blocking the M25 or whatever they plan next just prevents ordinary people from going about their daily lives/working  at a time when the cost of living is increasing. 

The average bloke in the street isn't the problem, according to many articles such as this;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59157836

Rather than smashing the odd window, gluing themselves to something or blocking roads maybe if the actually went after the real problem I would have more sympathy.  Unfortunately the real problems lies beyond our control (in China, India, USA etc) and like to virtue-signal to us about how 'we' should change.

 

 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Well we could all stop voting for greedy psychopaths who care more about enriching themselves today than they do about the planet remaining habitable tomorrow, but that is a digression into the forbidden topic

I still maintain it's the opposite. They have to impact the ordinary man in the street in order to facilitate change. Otherwise the ordinary man in the street just shrugs and prevaricates with his weak "what about china?" argument as an excuse for inaction

 

Point 1 ,, there really isn’t any kind of choice at the ballot box 

point 2, if some hypocritical clown tries to forcibly stop me from going about my normal law abiding business then I have the right to forcibly remove them ( general to all people ) 

laughed my nuts off a couple of days ago with one of these self blind clowns doing an interview on tv from his kitchen , you couldn’t believe the amount of unnecessary luxury appliances on view around him ,

if it’s real then I’m up for being onboard, if it’s pretending we are saving the planet by outsourcing all we do, use , buy , no longer produce ourselves but import then I’m not, we live in a world where the likes of Elton John flies prince Harry around on privates jets but it’s just fine and dandy because he plants some trees ????????, ffs don’t do the private jet stuff and plant the trees anyway ??‍♂️,

greta ?  She refuses to fly to her latest protest / conference and borrows a multi millions yacht to get there instead ,,, why aren’t we all being this responsible and sensible? Did the yatchs owners fly instead ? 
 

damaging property that has to be replaced , causing miles of traffic jams that spew out far more pollution,,, brains of rocking horses these clowns

[Gone]

In my opinion Climate change is here, it’s happening and we (humans) are not stopping it, that ship has long sailed.
On extinction rebellion, stop oil etc etc I agree with their cause (not tactics as much though), however I have a question/questions ? What’s the feasible alternative right now? tomorrow if we actually can do something to slow it down or even reverse it, what is it and what does it look like? I’m yet to hear from any of the groups on tangibly and realistically what the new world looks like. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by TexasRam