Wiil you be disappointed if we finish outside the top 2???

[Tyler Durden]

6 hours ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

I think there are some mitigating factors for last season's rubbish away form.

There was a thought that we had to go for wins because of the points deductions and it meant we chased games when shutting up shop would have been better......with hindsight.

Think about Cardiff......Ravel nearly got us 3 points and we got 0. A few boring 0-0's, like at West Brom when Wazza knew we couldn't win, could have kept us up. 

Without points deductions, I hope a slightly different approach will get us a few boring points from our poorer performances on the road.

The away game at The Hawthorns was the most one sided 0-0 draw you're ever likely to see. We got absolutely battered, how we came away from that game with a draw I'll never know. 

The way we set up our team in away games was as much a contribution to our abysmal points tally as anything. As soon as we conceded then you knew that was game over and we'd get another nul points.

I just hope Rosenoir has took this on board for this season. We'll see. 

[angieram]

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The away game at The Hawthorns was the most one sided 0-0 draw you're ever likely to see. We got absolutely battered, how we came away from that game with a draw I'll never know. 

The way we set up our team in away games was as much a contribution to our abysmal points tally as anything. As soon as we conceded then you knew that was game over and we'd get another nul points.

I just hope Rosenoir has took this on board for this season. We'll see. 

Kelle Roos is how.

[RamuelLJackson]

7 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

 

Only Peterborough and Barnsley accrued a fewer number of away points last season then we did and were the poorest teams in the division by a country mile. 

So again same question still stands, why are folks maintaining that we didn't get relegated last season due to the quality of our team.

If the quality of our team was so good then why did we witness the above?

Do the maths. Without the points deductions, Derby would have stayed up. Therefore they weren't relegated due to the quality of team, but because of the quality of previous ownership. This isn't complicated. Derby were a poor team away from home, but that's not the same thing; they were a rather competent side at home, just lacking a cutting edge up front, or I'd say a good team at home. You can't discount that - you average it over all the games played. When you do that, you have to reach the conclusion Derby were rather mediocre, but certainly not poor. Except financially

[Rammy03]

8 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

So again same question still stands, why are folks maintaining that we didn't get relegated last season due to the quality of our team.

Because we didn't. It's quite simple really, you add the 21 deducted points back on to our total and we're out of the relegation zone.

[Tyler Durden]

17 minutes ago, RamuelLJackson said:

Do the maths. Without the points deductions, Derby would have stayed up. Therefore they weren't relegated due to the quality of team, but because of the quality of previous ownership. This isn't complicated. Derby were a poor team away from home, but that's not the same thing; they were a rather competent side at home, just lacking a cutting edge up front, or I'd say a good team at home. You can't discount that - you average it over all the games played. When you do that, you have to reach the conclusion Derby were rather mediocre, but certainly not poor. Except financially

If we weren't relegated due to the quality of the team then how do you reconcile our appalling away performance?

And not by saying we weren't very good away from home, there has to be underlying and root causes to this.

Remember same set of players home and away.

The rest of your post along with similar comments by other forum members I've not debated so not sure why it's even been brought up. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Rammy03 said:

Because we didn't. It's quite simple really, you add the 21 deducted points back on to our total and we're out of the relegation zone.

I suspect we'd have beaten Bristol City and got something against Cardiff as well with something riding on it,  Played a lot of youngsters against Bristol.  

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, Rammy03 said:

Because we didn't. It's quite simple really, you add the 21 deducted points back on to our total and we're out of the relegation zone.

I'm not debating this so why are people then bringing this up.

Quite simple statement, if we weren't relegated due to the quality of our side then how does this reconcile with the abysmal away performances given per se the same set of players were in the side for home AND away games. 

And because we were rubbish away from home isn't an answer. What was the underlying causes if the players quality has been deemed good enough by many posters on here. 

[cstand]

No 

[SillyBilly]

My expectations even immediate post-takeover were low for the season i.e. consolidation. Fair to say I am thoroughly impressed by the speed and quality of signings we have made, I'm trying to be realistic though and therefore top 2 talk should likely be concentrated on Ipswich/Wednesday and leave us to our own devices. Suits us to have the pressure on others. I'd be really happy with the playoffs but most of all I am just excited to see us play and be competitive and see what happens. Shame we had to be relegated to feel this way but the Championship was becoming stale too after such a long stint, I'm looking forward to seeing us up against some other names for a change. I've no delusions of grandeur either, we're a League One club as much as any other so fair game.

[Topram]

Not at all, it’s actually embarrassing some of the stuff on twitter about p*ssing the league, plenty of clubs have gone down and haven’t made it back yet, we are basically starting from scratch to put probably 15 new players together and for it to all too work straight away would be amazing, Ipswich made some good signings and struggled for months to get it going! I’ll be happy with top 10

[Abu Derby]

No

[Crewton]

It's a funny old world where you can defend magnificently and get the rub of the green to pick up a point and be called "fortunate" yet outplay the opposition but only lose or draw because of magnificent defending by the opposition, a fluke goal or a poor refereeing performance and be called "appalling". 

We lost 5 games last season by more than one goal, and only one of them was by more than 2 goals. If there's a relegated team in history with a better record than that, please someone tell me. 

Our strikers last season comprised Sam Baldock, a crocked CKR and three novices under 21. Small wonder we lost so many games by the odd goal. 

[May Contain Nuts]

36 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I'm not debating this so why are people then bringing this up.

Quite simple statement, if we weren't relegated due to the quality of our side then how does this reconcile with the abysmal away performances given per se the same set of players were in the side for home AND away games. 

And because we were rubbish away from home isn't an answer. What was the underlying causes if the players quality has been deemed good enough by many posters on here. 

It's been answered.

Managerial decisions. Experienced players being removed from the team in January. The generally accepted tendency for teams away form to be worse than their home form. Other reasons too.

People are repeating themselves because you're refusing to take their answers onboard. You're not debating what they say, you're just carrying on as if they never said it and it has no validity.

I'm not sure why you're still asking the question. You're making something simple and straightforward needlessly complicated.

[May Contain Nuts]

44 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I'm not debating this so why are people then bringing this up.

Quite simple statement, if we weren't relegated due to the quality of our side then how does this reconcile with the abysmal away performances given per se the same set of players were in the side for home AND away games. 

And because we were rubbish away from home isn't an answer. What was the underlying causes if the players quality has been deemed good enough by many posters on here. 

It's been answered.

 

Managerial decisions. Experienced players being removed from the team in January. The generally accepted tendency for teams away form to be worse than their home form. Other reasons too.

 

People are repeating themselves because you're refusing to take their answers onboard. You're not debating what they say, you're just carrying on as if they never said it and it has no validity.

I'm not sure why you're still asking the question. You're making something simple and straightforward needlessly complicated.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, Coconut's Beard said:

It's been answered.

Managerial decisions. Experienced players being removed from the team in January. The generally accepted tendency for teams away form to be worse than their home form. Other reasons too.

People are repeating themselves because you're refusing to take their answers onboard. You're not debating what they say, you're just carrying on as if they never said it and it has no validity.

I'm not sure why you're still asking the question. You're making something simple and straightforward needlessly complicated.

They're repeating themselves with answers to questions I didn't even ask. Conflating two totally different points.

Think you're the first poster to respond to my original points with answers that relate to it not something plucked out of their own imaginations. 

For that I appreciate your response. 

[RamuelLJackson]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

If we weren't relegated due to the quality of the team then how do you reconcile our appalling away performance?

And not by saying we weren't very good away from home, there has to be underlying and root causes to this.

Remember same set of players home and away.

The rest of your post along with similar comments by other forum members I've not debated so not sure why it's even been brought up. 

I take you bowling with some friends. Your form is a little erratic, some strikes and also some 2s and 3s, but you comfortably score more points than me. Then I deduct 21 points from your score, leaving you behind me in the rankings, and tell you I beat you because your play was "poor".

Do you think I am making a fair comment, or did I beat you because I took points off your tally?

 

[Rammy03]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

I'm not debating this so why are people then bringing this up.

Quite simple statement, if we weren't relegated due to the quality of our side then how does this reconcile with the abysmal away performances given per se the same set of players were in the side for home AND away games. 

And because we were rubbish away from home isn't an answer. What was the underlying causes if the players quality has been deemed good enough by many posters on here. 

Yes away from home we were poor that is clear. What was the underlying reason? I don't know but I suspect it may have something to do with the fact that we were using a lot of young players in their first season. Naturally you are going to be better at home in more comfortable surroundings. We just seemed to lack a bit of nous and real confidence when we weren't at Pride Park, that willingness to go forwards with purpose. 

I think it's all about expectation and circumstance. I think in the circumstances and with the inexperienced players we had, we were a good team last season. Good enough to overturn a 21 point deduction? No, but most teams in the league wouldn't be able to do that. We just lacked that real quality and cutting edge to win games away from home. And still, we would have survived if not for the points deduction. It was a really good effort.