Football Eats Itself

[angieram]

I see Manchester City have now bought a controlling interest in Palermo.

Also bought Kalvin Phillips for £42 million.

 

[Anon]

Maybe football will end up like every other big business where about half a dozen megacorps own everything and just work under different trading names? Can't wait for Unilever Manchester Red vs Bayer London White.

[Alph]

Does anyone find other sporting interests taking over football?

I mean I know F1 and boxing are certainly full of greedy money men. But I don't think they disguise it as some working man's sport. They don't play it up to 'the fans' as such. Not like football with it's pretense. 

And in those sports the athletes can easily go from top to forgotten if they're not dedicated. 

I know football clubs have a family feeling that you only get in a team sport but how long can that hold people? (The suits are hoping forever so they can continue the act) 

[Rammy03]

Now part of the City Football Group 

[BaaLocks]

You only have to see the way we got treated over the likes of Kaide Gordon's sell on fee, Ebiowei and others during a time when we most needed a bit of support to see that anyone who claims football outside the big six is worthy of consideration is - well - blowing out of their hole. And how much time is anyone taking to make sure that what we have been through is not endured at a repeating frequency by other clubs? Not one moment. And how much real concern would have been shared if we had gone under? Not one bit, in the same way it won't be for the next club and the one after and the one after.

I don't say football clubs should be ring fenced, but there should be learnings and there should be protection in place to allow competitiveness (for it is a sport after all) to exist inside the boundaries of what is done. I don't say we should go totally Marxist, or introduce a salary cap or draft or other method of levelling the playing field. But the system *has* to allow chance for a club to rise up and challenge, even if it takes time and is the exception it has to be possible. Realistically, today, there is zero chance of winning any top level trophy unless you have an extremely wealthy owner.

To the point on Kalvin Philips, it can't be good for the game for some of it's best talent to be consigned to sitting on the bench for all but the Carabao Cup games. How does that help the game grow domestically and nationally?

But, against all this, a bit like LIV Golf if various oil barons and millionaires want to donate their almost infinite wealth among footballers who largely come from less than privileged backgrounds then who am I to challenge that? Now, whether it is right morally for those players to sign up to take the money is a different point but still.

[Bris Vegas]

7 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

You only have to see the way we got treated over the likes of Kaide Gordon's sell on fee, Ebiowei and others during a time when we most needed a bit of support to see that anyone who claims football outside the big six is worthy of consideration is - well - blowing out of their hole. And how much time is anyone taking to make sure that what we have been through is not endured at a repeating frequency by other clubs? Not one moment. And how much real concern would have been shared if we had gone under? Not one bit, in the same way it won't be for the next club and the one after and the one after.

I don't say football clubs should be ring fenced, but there should be learnings and there should be protection in place to allow competitiveness (for it is a sport after all) to exist inside the boundaries of what is done. I don't say we should go totally Marxist, or introduce a salary cap or draft or other method of levelling the playing field. But the system *has* to allow chance for a club to rise up and challenge, even if it takes time and is the exception it has to be possible. Realistically, today, there is zero chance of winning any top level trophy unless you have an extremely wealthy owner.

To the point on Kalvin Philips, it can't be good for the game for some of it's best talent to be consigned to sitting on the bench for all but the Carabao Cup games. How does that help the game grow domestically and nationally?

But, against all this, a bit like LIV Golf if various oil barons and millionaires want to donate their almost infinite wealth among footballers who largely come from less than privileged backgrounds then who am I to challenge that? Now, whether it is right morally for those players to sign up to take the money is a different point but still.

The decision to move up to 5 subs certainly means there is more space for the big squads to fill out their squads. And that means buy the best players (especially English players) from teams outside the top six.

City sign Grealish and Phillips to fill quotas. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Bris Vegas

[TigerTedd]

I know the natural reaction to the European super league was to be against it. But now i really wish it had gone through. Those ‘big’ clubs can really just piss off and play their fantasy football, start fixing the results and writing the scripts to their hearts content. 

Ironically, the fans of those clubs would at first think, wow, we’re in a closed shop now, at the top table forever more. But they’d really be in a worse position than us. Their club would be no more. the real fans of those clubs will start phoenix clubs, and before you know it, they’ll be back and everything will be back to normal and the super league will just be some freak show for wwe wrestlers to retire to. 

[Dimmu]

Abu Dhabi, China, Murdoch, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, oligarks, UEFA, FIFA... Take your pick. Elite football is corrupt to the core and is used as a propaganda, whitewash & money laundry machine.

For me, the real football still exists in lower leagues and women's football. Rest of it I mostly despise.

[Dimmu]

16 hours ago, Alpha said:

Does anyone find other sporting interests taking over football?

I mean I know F1 and boxing are certainly full of greedy money men. But I don't think they disguise it as some working man's sport. They don't play it up to 'the fans' as such. Not like football with it's pretense. 

And in those sports the athletes can easily go from top to forgotten if they're not dedicated. 

I know football clubs have a family feeling that you only get in a team sport but how long can that hold people? (The suits are hoping forever so they can continue the act) 

For me, there's only been a football. F1 is globe destroying circus and in boxing, the goal is to cause severe brain damage to an opponent. Not the easiest sports to like IMO.

I quite like decathlon, triathlon and biathlon even though I don't follow them. Proper athletes. Maybe I should give a go.

[Bris Vegas]

42 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

Abu Dhabi, China, Murdoch, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, oligarks, UEFA, FIFA... Take your pick. Elite football is corrupt to the core and is used as a propaganda, whitewash & money laundry machine.

For me, the real football still exists in lower leagues and women's football. Rest of it I mostly despise.

The younger generation don’t see it like that. They just see superstars, endless broadcasts and closer interaction with each club’s Youtube channels than anything before.

The younger generation has next-to-no interest in the lower leagues (because the quality in comparison is poor and that ultimately makes the games less entertaining).

The older generation detest the idea of a Super League but it’s going to happen. We’re edging closer and closer and it’s only a matter of time before the younger generation outweighs the older generation and they hold the majority vote.

My generation, born in the 80s, can remember growing up with Euro96 and the likes of Gazza, got the last touch before the money men came in. Not old enough to remember terrace standing but still old enough to remember a more level playing field and top-flight 3pm kick offs.

Those born late 90s and beyond have been exposed to just circus football.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Bris Vegas

[Sparkle]

7 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

I know the natural reaction to the European super league was to be against it. But now i really wish it had gone through. Those ‘big’ clubs can really just piss off and play their fantasy football, start fixing the results and writing the scripts to their hearts content. 

Ironically, the fans of those clubs would at first think, wow, we’re in a closed shop now, at the top table forever more. But they’d really be in a worse position than us. Their club would be no more. the real fans of those clubs will start phoenix clubs, and before you know it, they’ll be back and everything will be back to normal and the super league will just be some freak show for wwe wrestlers to retire to. 

If they were going to leave for a super league then yes it would be great - just leave ( I wouldn’t be watching it) but no they actually just wanted to play midweek and carry on in the premiership at weekends - they simply wanted their cake and everybody else’s 

[Dimmu]

@Bris VegasUnfortunately, I fully agree that’s the reality now. Also, I find that superstar culture very American and distant for myself. It’s a team game after all. Stars suit to social media well and it seems to do the trick engaging people though. 
 

At least at Derby there’s no superhero cult, there’s a preference for scapegoats…

Edited July 5, 2022 by Dimmu
Should’ve quoted @bris

[ThePrisoner]

1 hour ago, Dimmu said:

At least at Derby there’s no superhero cult

[Wolfie20]

38 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said:

Who's this?

[richinspain]

I'll see your 

13 hours ago, ThePrisoner said:

and raise you one of these

 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

17 hours ago, Dimmu said:

Abu Dhabi, China, Murdoch, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, oligarks, UEFA, FIFA... Take your pick. Elite football is corrupt to the core and is used as a propaganda, whitewash & money laundry machine.

For me, the real football still exists in lower leagues and women's football. Rest of it I mostly despise.

The very reason why i am looking forward to this season. 3pm kick off no dicking around at 12.30 or a bloody friday night because Sky says so with 2 minutes notice, w*****s

[Rammy03]

19 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

The younger generation don’t see it like that. They just see superstars, endless broadcasts and closer interaction with each club’s Youtube channels than anything before.

The younger generation has next-to-no interest in the lower leagues (because the quality in comparison is poor and that ultimately makes the games less entertaining).

The older generation detest the idea of a Super League but it’s going to happen. We’re edging closer and closer and it’s only a matter of time before the younger generation outweighs the older generation and they hold the majority vote.

The overwhelming majority of all fans,  whatever generation, detest the idea of a super league. I would even go as far as saying that EVERYONE hated the super league and that is why it was stopped. It was the fans protests that forced them to give in. 

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

The overwhelming majority of all fans,  whatever generation, detest the idea of a super league. I would even go as far as saying that EVERYONE hated the super league and that is why it was stopped. It was the fans protests that forced them to give in. 

It was driven by the older generation. The younger generation and fans abroad would lap it up.

[Ghost of Clough]

4 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

It was driven by the older generation. The younger generation and fans abroad would lap it up.

No, 99% of domestic fans of all ages opposed it

[BaaLocks]

On 05/07/2022 at 05:26, Bris Vegas said:

The younger generation don’t see it like that. They just see superstars, endless broadcasts and closer interaction with each club’s Youtube channels than anything before.

The younger generation has next-to-no interest in the lower leagues (because the quality in comparison is poor and that ultimately makes the games less entertaining).

The older generation detest the idea of a Super League but it’s going to happen. We’re edging closer and closer and it’s only a matter of time before the younger generation outweighs the older generation and they hold the majority vote.

My generation, born in the 80s, can remember growing up with Euro96 and the likes of Gazza, got the last touch before the money men came in. Not old enough to remember terrace standing but still old enough to remember a more level playing field and top-flight 3pm kick offs.

Those born late 90s and beyond have been exposed to just circus football.

Are we any different in the 'lower leagues'? Have a look at the transfer threads that have popped up since the takeover was confirmed, look at the glee that we are able to spend on players bigger than others in the division could afford. Just multilpy that by ten (maybe more) and you've got yourself a Man City fan.

We all want the best our club can afford, the problem is (and we know better than most) what happens when you go beyond that. So you can't blame the fans, of whatever generation, for getting excited about the multi-million pound incoming target.

And you can't really blame the owners, they are buying a new toy like you and I would buy a PS5 or a new set of golf clubs. And you can't even blame the governing bodies - how well do you think it would be received if the EFL capped salaries and all the stars (including the English ones) went to Spain, Italy and Germany.

It's not corrupt to the core, as others said, it's just the capitalist model playing out - them with the deepest pockets get the best rewards, and those who don't have deep pockets will do pretty much anything to make them deeper. Watch it, we will go back up - hopefully this season - and then the forum will light up all over again with who we should be buying, who we must have to survive, who we need to offer a massive contract to in order to keep them.

Twas ever thus - Clough battled Sam Longson eternally for more funds for players, Derby County broke the English transfer record three times between the end of the war and our first title winning season. We're all as bad as each other, just some have more to be bad with than others.