Swansea vs The Rams Matchday Thread

[Jimbo Ram]

42 minutes ago, sage said:

We would certainly be in with a much better shout. 

Probably 8-10 points better off. 

 

Have you taken off the points for the decisions that have gone our way too? Needs to be a bit of balance here. I would rather Wazza focused on some different game plans and tactics away from home and tried out some other options. Our dreadful away form needs to be addressed next season.

[sage]

14 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Have you taken off the points for the decisions that have gone our way too? Needs to be a bit of balance here. I would rather Wazza focused on some different game plans and tactics away from home and tried out some other options. Our dreadful away form needs to be addressed next season.

Yes. I'd say 8 to 10 is a net figure. 

I think our over reliance on young players doesn't help with away form. I would also suggest that most of those 8-10 points have come in away games. 

 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

Yes. I'd say 8 to 10 is a net figure. 

I think our over reliance on young players doesn't help with away form. I would also suggest that most of those 8-10 points have come in away games. 

 

 

I definitely agree that we haven’t had the rub of the green with refereeing decisions this season. But I do think fans generally remember the contentious decisions that didn’t go our way but conveniently forget the decisions that did. Just off the top of my head, there was an offside in the build up to the penalty decision in the home game v Bournemouth. Offside and high boot for Bielik late equaliser v Brum. Possible hand ball and penalty against Curtis just after his late equaliser at Reading and possible Allsop sending off yesterday. I am sure there are many others. How you total it all up over the season who knows?

[PistoldPete]

39 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Have you taken off the points for the decisions that have gone our way too? Needs to be a bit of balance here. I would rather Wazza focused on some different game plans and tactics away from home and tried out some other options. Our dreadful away form needs to be addressed next season.

You cannot ignore that penalty call on Bart to be fair it was a shocker. Our home form is due to the 12th man we have.. the fans. Our away form is due to the 12th man the opposition has.. the ref. 

[PistoldPete]

29 minutes ago, sage said:

Yes. I'd say 8 to 10 is a net figure. 

I think our over reliance on young players doesn't help with away form. I would also suggest that most of those 8-10 points have come in away games. 

 

 

Agreed.. at home the refs don't seem nearly as bad.  Bielik's bicycle kick was from an offside although ref should have given penalty to us in that game too and he allowed a lot of fouling by Birmingham to go unpunished. So the net result even in that game was even at best.  

[Steve How Hard?]

Only one conclusion to draw from that match. No penalty for the clear foul on Bart must mean the ref was a homer. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Steve How Hard?
Missed a word out

[DavesaRam]

As Sean Connery might have said when a load of books fell on him "I only have my shelf to blame!", regardless of the referee performance, we brought that result on ourselves, and can only blame ourselves.

Both of Swansea's goals came from abject defending, and both originated from pratting around at the back. There is a case for being able to play the ball out from the back, but it has to be balanced with pragmatism, in that there comes a time when giving the ball a mighty whack upfield is the correct thing to do. Our downfall is the insistence on using the circus act almost to exclusion.

Swansea "did a job on us" yesterday. Yes they had a couple of players on the around the area for our goal kicks, but then had a line of players just inside our half, so hen we had played out from the back, anything more was stifled, with nowhere for us to go, at which point Swansea were overloading the area just outside the box, and we had no answer. The first goal was actually well worked and well taken, the second an absolute gift. Because of the deferred press we kept playing the ball to players who we shouldn't have passed to, and we should have simply gone long, but didn't. It was rather a shame because just prior to the second goal we had started to threaten the Swansea goal, but the second goal knocked us back. I found it interesting the Swansea also played out from the back quite regularly, but once the keeper had played the ball out, they never went back to him. They always turned and looked to progress the ball through the field.

The penalty was  a definite one, and the ref got it right, although I thought he wouldn't give it, on the basis that the ball had gone out of Plange's control. It was a clear foul, which should be enough, but usually isn't anymore. There were no protests from the keeper, and the reverse camera angle showed that he had pulled Plange's leg on his way through. I was expecting a tough match, and probably a nasty scoreline, and feared a cricket score after 15 minutes, but the penalty seemed to stop the rot.

We actually didn't produce much in attack after that, but gained a better balance in the match. The lack of threat was because, unlike Swansea, we it seems would rather stop an attacking move so we can go back to the keeper, and although it is good that we have a keeper who can play the sweeper role, it is also detrimental because he becomes the easy option almost every time we have the ball, and it really slows us down.

But there is another issue - Ebiowe had a terrific match yesterday, and was our main threat. Which Swansea knew, and spent the match mauling and manhandling him. So we return to the match officiating. He was tripped, blocked or wrestled off the ball time after time after time, with virtually nothing given in his favour. there must have been getting on for 20 offences before the ref gave a free kick in his favour. And - it wasn't yet one more penalty decision turned down, it was two. Malcolm broke into the area to be felled with a blatant push, and it wasn't given. He then threw himself to the floor on the next attack, which was the only time he was thrown to the floor when it wasn't a foul. And for the second time in his brief first team career he tired of not being given the decision that he decided to create a foul out of nothing. But all that does is give the ref a reason to give him nothing.

The ref was actually OK at the start, despite his previous form, apart from doing nothing about the assault on Morrison in the opening minute, until the penalty, after which he started to try and even things up. Patterson demonstrated the origin of the term "Swan Dive" in the "Allsopp" incident, but although their tackling was verging on the violent, they were going down like flies all the way through the match, mainly because it worked. Cleanly winning the ball no longer counts as a legitimate action for Derby players, it would seem. And although the ref was keen to book Morrison when he fell and stopped a Swansea breakaway, he did nothing when Byrne as about to break free into acres of space and was completely cleaned out, being lifted 2 feet upwards in the process. A clear yellow, but nothing given. Morrison jumped to head the ball just outside the Derby area and the the Swansea player simply bent at the waist and stepped backwards, rolling Ravel over his back and onto the floor. But was Morrison who committed the foul? Come on, ref. And then the last minute penalty incident. Oh, and blowing for full time ahead of time to deny another blatant foul when Morrison (again) was cleaned out on the edge of the box. Actually, I know I come down against referees a lot, usually with good cause, or even very good cause. But all i  want are match officials who operate the rules of Association Football. What we get instead is match officials who operate to the rules of the English football League. And there is a big difference.

In the end we were beaten by a better team, although they actually weren't that much better. Apart from using some of the dark arts of football, but the difference was in our naïve use of playing out from the back. Sort that out and we would have got something yesterday.

The players coming over to the fans after the match provided a very poignant moment - it was the longest that the players have stood applauding the fans, and the looks on their faces said they knew that, barring miracles, any faint chance of avoiding relegation had been blown yesterday. And maybe the looks meant more - (a) the fans deserve better than this (b) is it almost over for some of the players? I noticed Roos could hardly bear to walk off the pitch - he kept stopping, looking round and raising his arm to wave. He did this probably 5 or 6 times before finally leaving the pitch. How many of them will we see next season?

Strangely, the SAtNAv took us a different way back, via Merthyr Tydfil and over the Heads of the Valleys road, which was nice. So there was something good came out of the day!

[Rammy03]

19 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

You cannot ignore that penalty call on Bart to be fair it was a shocker. Our home form is due to the 12th man we have.. the fans. Our away form is due to the 12th man the opposition has.. the ref. 

Don't disagree but we play much better at home. Our performances away are often subpar.

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

As Sean Connery might have said when a load of books fell on him "I only have my shelf to blame!", regardless of the referee performance, we brought that result on ourselves, and can only blame ourselves.

Both of Swansea's goals came from abject defending, and both originated from pratting around at the back. There is a case for being able to play the ball out from the back, but it has to be balanced with pragmatism, in that there comes a time when giving the ball a mighty whack upfield is the correct thing to do. Our downfall is the insistence on using the circus act almost to exclusion.

Swansea "did a job on us" yesterday. Yes they had a couple of players on the around the area for our goal kicks, but then had a line of players just inside our half, so hen we had played out from the back, anything more was stifled, with nowhere for us to go, at which point Swansea were overloading the area just outside the box, and we had no answer. The first goal was actually well worked and well taken, the second an absolute gift. Because of the deferred press we kept playing the ball to players who we shouldn't have passed to, and we should have simply gone long, but didn't. It was rather a shame because just prior to the second goal we had started to threaten the Swansea goal, but the second goal knocked us back. I found it interesting the Swansea also played out from the back quite regularly, but once the keeper had played the ball out, they never went back to him. They always turned and looked to progress the ball through the field.

The penalty was  a definite one, and the ref got it right, although I thought he wouldn't give it, on the basis that the ball had gone out of Plange's control. It was a clear foul, which should be enough, but usually isn't anymore. There were no protests from the keeper, and the reverse camera angle showed that he had pulled Plange's leg on his way through. I was expecting a tough match, and probably a nasty scoreline, and feared a cricket score after 15 minutes, but the penalty seemed to stop the rot.

We actually didn't produce much in attack after that, but gained a better balance in the match. The lack of threat was because, unlike Swansea, we it seems would rather stop an attacking move so we can go back to the keeper, and although it is good that we have a keeper who can play the sweeper role, it is also detrimental because he becomes the easy option almost every time we have the ball, and it really slows us down.

But there is another issue - Ebiowe had a terrific match yesterday, and was our main threat. Which Swansea knew, and spent the match mauling and manhandling him. So we return to the match officiating. He was tripped, blocked or wrestled off the ball time after time after time, with virtually nothing given in his favour. there must have been getting on for 20 offences before the ref gave a free kick in his favour. And - it wasn't yet one more penalty decision turned down, it was two. Malcolm broke into the area to be felled with a blatant push, and it wasn't given. He then threw himself to the floor on the next attack, which was the only time he was thrown to the floor when it wasn't a foul. And for the second time in his brief first team career he tired of not being given the decision that he decided to create a foul out of nothing. But all that does is give the ref a reason to give him nothing.

The ref was actually OK at the start, despite his previous form, apart from doing nothing about the assault on Morrison in the opening minute, until the penalty, after which he started to try and even things up. Patterson demonstrated the origin of the term "Swan Dive" in the "Allsopp" incident, but although their tackling was verging on the violent, they were going down like flies all the way through the match, mainly because it worked. Cleanly winning the ball no longer counts as a legitimate action for Derby players, it would seem. And although the ref was keen to book Morrison when he fell and stopped a Swansea breakaway, he did nothing when Byrne as about to break free into acres of space and was completely cleaned out, being lifted 2 feet upwards in the process. A clear yellow, but nothing given. Morrison jumped to head the ball just outside the Derby area and the the Swansea player simply bent at the waist and stepped backwards, rolling Ravel over his back and onto the floor. But was Morrison who committed the foul? Come on, ref. And then the last minute penalty incident. Oh, and blowing for full time ahead of time to deny another blatant foul when Morrison (again) was cleaned out on the edge of the box. Actually, I know I come down against referees a lot, usually with good cause, or even very good cause. But all i  want are match officials who operate the rules of Association Football. What we get instead is match officials who operate to the rules of the English football League. And there is a big difference.

In the end we were beaten by a better team, although they actually weren't that much better. Apart from using some of the dark arts of football, but the difference was in our naïve use of playing out from the back. Sort that out and we would have got something yesterday.

The players coming over to the fans after the match provided a very poignant moment - it was the longest that the players have stood applauding the fans, and the looks on their faces said they knew that, barring miracles, any faint chance of avoiding relegation had been blown yesterday. And maybe the looks meant more - (a) the fans deserve better than this (b) is it almost over for some of the players? I noticed Roos could hardly bear to walk off the pitch - he kept stopping, looking round and raising his arm to wave. He did this probably 5 or 6 times before finally leaving the pitch. How many of them will we see next season?

Strangely, the SAtNAv took us a different way back, via Merthyr Tydfil and over the Heads of the Valleys road, which was nice. So there was something good came out of the day!

Nice little synopsis Dave, I look forward to your full report in due course ??

[Rammy03]

8 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

The players coming over to the fans after the match provided a very poignant moment - it was the longest that the players have stood applauding the fans, and the looks on their faces said they knew that, barring miracles, any faint chance of avoiding relegation had been blown yesterday.

They probably didn't know the Reading result until they got back into the dressing room. 

[Jimbo Ram]

24 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

You cannot ignore that penalty call on Bart to be fair it was a shocker. Our home form is due to the 12th man we have.. the fans. Our away form is due to the 12th man the opposition has.. the ref. 

So we have won 2 away games all season and lost 8 on the bounce….and it is down to the ref ?????

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

So we have won 2 away games all season and lost 8 on the bounce….and it is down to the ref ?????

The refs have certainly had an impact.

[jimtastic56]

11 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

So we have won 2 away games all season and lost 8 on the bounce….and it is down to the ref ?????

9 if you count Coventry away in the cup. I have been to most of them, and Wayne’s tantrum about the penalty has diverted attention away from this terrible statistic.

[PistoldPete]

24 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

So we have won 2 away games all season and lost 8 on the bounce….and it is down to the ref ?????

No we have a threadbare squad that , but due to the positive energy derived from our amazing home support has managed some amazing wins at home. Our away support is very good too, but not enough. The refs in away games have easily cost us.. both the Welsh games Cardiff and Swansea,  dodgy refs have   cost us at least a draw in each of those games. Forest game, Boro game (OK we lost 4-1 but even so) , Luton, at least half of those 8 games could have been draws if not for the officials being dodgy.     

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

9 if you count Coventry away in the cup. I have been to most of them, and Wayne’s tantrum about the penalty has diverted attention away from this terrible statistic.

What was the expectation of the team at the start of the season? What was it after -21 points? After an awful January window? 

Concentrating on the fact we've had a poor run away from home seems a bit selective, it's not as though it's easier to win away from home is it?

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What was the expectation of the team at the start of the season? What was it after -21 points? After an awful January window? 

Concentrating on the fact we've had a poor run away from home seems a bit selective, it's not as though it's easier to win away from home is it?

Not being critical of Wayne at all Macca, but to blame our away form just on the refs is a bit OTT don’t you think ?

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Have you taken off the points for the decisions that have gone our way too? Needs to be a bit of balance here. I would rather Wazza focused on some different game plans and tactics away from home and tried out some other options. Our dreadful away form needs to be addressed next season.

That would be about 2 points, 3 at the most.

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Not being critical of Wayne at all Macca, but to blame our away form just on the refs is a bit OTT don’t you think ?

"Concentrating on the fact we've had a poor run away from home seems a bit selective, it's not as though it's easier to win away from home is it?"

That's the point.

Edited April 10, 2022 by RoyMac5

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

That's the point.

That second comment wasn’t me ?

[DavesaRam]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

So we have won 2 away games all season and lost 8 on the bounce….and it is down to the ref ?????

No. I actually put in my 75 page thesis that the result was our own fault - right at the start of my verbiage!