World Cup Qatar

[Tamworthram]

22 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Imagine you are an ex-player pundit who doesn't actually know a great deal about football tactics or analysis, hence you didn't get into coaching or managing.

Would you try and describe the pattern of the game and what is happening beyond where the ball is? Or do you just keep going on and on about the star player, not realising it is a team sport?

Why is Messi thriving in this Argentina side when he was poor in so many others? Must be cos he is now a much better player at PSG then he ever was at Barca right?

No star player to talk about? Just go on and on about one very close decision that could have gone either way!

I don’t have a lot of time for the pundits and usually find something else to do rather than listen to their comments at half time but it could be just that some of them fancy the much easier (and possibly higher paid) job of being a pundit than a coach/manager where you know getting the sack is a constant threat even if you’re successful for a period of time. Don’t they say that the best way for a championship manager to get the sack is to get your team promoted to the premier league?

[uttoxram75]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I don’t have a lot of time for the pundits and usually find something else to do rather than listen to their comments at half time but it could be just that some of them fancy the much easier (and possibly higher paid) job of being a pundit than a coach/manager where you know getting the sack is a constant threat even if you’re successful for a period of time. Don’t they say that the best way for a championship manager to get the sack is to get your team promoted to the premier league?

Its b******* isn't it. One sensible ex pro might be acceptable to look at some of the finer points and discuss controversial decisions etc but having Graham Souness, Roy Keane and a female ex player talking to that strange Pougatch chap in between adverts and competitions based at the main Post Office in Derby is pathetic.

Shearer, Richards and a different female ex player talking to Lineker is better by the width of a very thin gnats chuff only because theres no adverts and no competition based at the main Post Office in Derby.

 

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its b******* isn't it. One sensible ex pro might be acceptable to look at some of the finer points and discuss controversial decisions etc but having Graham Souness, Roy Keane and a female ex player talking to that strange Pougatch chap in between adverts and competitions based at the main Post Office in Derby is pathetic.

Shearer, Richards and a different female ex player talking to Lineker is better by the width of a very thin gnats chuff only because theres no adverts and no competition based at the main Post Office in Derby.

 

I have to laugh at how Souness was completely infatuated with Spain’s style of play after the first half against Japan. He even said ‘why can’t people in England play like that?’

And since then they didn’t score another goal, and lost to Japan and then Morocco.

There’s a reason why he’s not a manager any more. 

[Gritstone Ram]

12 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I have to laugh at how Souness was completely infatuated with Spain’s style of play after the first half against Japan. He even said ‘why can’t people in England play like that?’

And since then they didn’t score another goal, and lost to Japan and then Morocco.

There’s a reason why he’s not a manager any more. 

Souness was a good footballer I watched him on match of the day and may have seen him at the BBG but without sounding too English why have we got a Scot commenting on England and on English TV for that matter when there are as qualified people in this country?

Edited December 8, 2022 by Gritstone Ram

[Ellafella]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2022/dec/07/david-squires-on-heroes-and-villains-from-the-last-16-of-the-qatar-world-cup?CMP=share_btn_link

[kevinhectoring]

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

etc but having Graham Souness, Roy Keane and a female ex player talking to

Is your inbox filling up?

(I’m guessing you refer to ‘female’ ex player simply because you can’t recall her name. 
But you’ve wandered into a minefield ...)

[Bris Vegas]

We’re at the crunch end of the tournament now. Morocco and Croatia are underdogs, but the other six are genuine challengers.

I think the semi-finals will be Holland vs Brazil and England vs Portugal.

If England don’t win it, then I’d want Messi to. 

Anyone but Portugal.
 

[Alph]

I can't remember when a pundit last pointed out something I hadn't spotted. 

I swear Alan Hansen would explain how to defend against someone in this situation, how much distance you should have in this position or that position or where the defender should be and the gaps between defenders. 

I'm sure he never used to show a replay of a pass or foul 100 times and explain why it was a good pass or bad foul. 

I swear it was more tactical than that talking like he's coaching us. 

Micah Richards telling me Mbappe is fast then them all doing the lads lads lads act while laughing is boring and annoying. 

It's all very American. "Receptions". Give it a fecking rest.

[Alph]

Been playing football half my life and watching it all my life. "Receptions". "Ball rpm" 

Knob heads. Have to get Professor Brian Cox in soon

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

If England don’t win it, then I’d want Messi to. 

I’d love Morocco to win if England don’t 

[TigerTedd]

5 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

I’d love Morocco to win if England don’t 

Why have there been no Greece’s or Denmark’s in the World Cup? Why does it seem easier to fluke / s******** your way to a European championship than a World Cup?

What was the biggest shock? It always seems to be the same big teams that win it, you rarely get a cat among the pigeons like Morocco. 

[Bris Vegas]

35 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Why have there been no Greece’s or Denmark’s in the World Cup? Why does it seem easier to fluke / s******** your way to a European championship than a World Cup?

What was the biggest shock? It always seems to be the same big teams that win it, you rarely get a cat among the pigeons like Morocco. 

Isn’t it technically easier to win a Euros?

The reduced number of opposition meaning less games, the absence of South American teams who make up about 30-40% of the total World Cup winners, plus the more comfortable climate, closer to home making travel easier plus the general better standard of facilities.

There have only been two European nations to win a World Cup outside of Europe, and that was Spain and Germany in the last decade where facilities have improved.

It’s been a very difficult task for major European sides to win a World Cup let alone lesser sides.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Bris Vegas

[TigerTedd]

40 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Isn’t it technically easier to win a Euros?

The reduced number of opposition meaning less games, the absence of South American teams who make up about 30-40% of the total World Cup winners, plus the more comfortable climate, closer to home making travel easier plus the general better standard of facilities.

There have only been two European nations to win a World Cup outside of Europe, and that was Spain and Germany in the last decade where facilities have improved.

It’s been a very difficult task for major European sides to win a World Cup let alone lesser sides.

 

 

That’s what I figured. But still, there have not really been any great shocks in the World Cup have there? It’s always been one of the favourites that end up winning it.

Which makes sense, of course the favourites win it. But football tends to throw in the occasional shock, a Leicester, or a Greece. It’s just interesting that the World Cup has never really had that.

Law of averages says it’ll happen eventually. Maybe it’s Morocco’s time. 

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

That’s what I figured. But still, there have not really been any great shocks in the World Cup have there? It’s always been one of the favourites that end up winning it.

Which makes sense, of course the favourites win it. But football tends to throw in the occasional shock, a Leicester, or a Greece. It’s just interesting that the World Cup has never really had that.

Law of averages says it’ll happen eventually. Maybe it’s Morocco’s time. 

In a roundabout way I think winning the World Cup is more difficult than winning any other trophy for a national team. Holland and Portugal have never won it. England just the once, Spain got their first in 2010 and France in 98 and 2018.

Morocco winning the World Cup would be a massive shock. But then again, they aren’t a bad side. It’s not like they have a bunch of Championship standard players. 

But I understand your point.

I just think ultimately the best teams win the World Cup. The teams with the best players I mean.

It’s different to club football where you train as a team for potentially years, can buy specific players to fit into a particular style of play. At international level, in a simple way, it’s just cobbling 11 players together and doing the best you can.

And generally the best 11 players win.

 

[Wolfie]

7 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

That’s what I figured. But still, there have not really been any great shocks in the World Cup have there? It’s always been one of the favourites that end up winning it.

Which makes sense, of course the favourites win it. But football tends to throw in the occasional shock, a Leicester, or a Greece. It’s just interesting that the World Cup has never really had that.

Law of averages says it’ll happen eventually. Maybe it’s Morocco’s time. 

It's the same in any cup competition, though. When was the last time a second tier English team won the FA or League cup?. The closest I can think of right now is when Wigan won it and got relegated from the Prem in the same season.

Lower teams might get away with losing a group game but they've then got to punch well above their weight in 4 consecutive games to win the thing. It's just very unlikely. Akin to rolling 4 consecutive 6's?

[kevinhectoring]

6 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

In a roundabout way I think winning the World Cup is more difficult than winning any other trophy for a national team

Football is a less pure game than say rugby. Man City can lose to Brentford but less likely the world no 1 Rugby test team loses to no 8.  So I’d say if you’re NZ (the Brazil of Rugby) it’s easier to become world champions at Rugby than it is for Brazil in football. And if you’re Argentina’s rugby team, it’s harder than it is for Greece to win at football
 

Home advantage in these competitions is massive. We won at Wembley, Denmark won in Scandinavia (close). Greece (who won with a great manager) probably played in climactic conditions v similar to home (Portugal) and didn’t travel far

One problem of playing away is well illustrated by the challenges the Kazakh weightlifters faced at the 2012 Olympics when the British customs officers realised everyone enormous coming in from Astana in June with a heavy case was bringing a month’s supply of horsemeat. All confiscated so no one in the team had any strength, of course 

[kevinhectoring]

20 hours ago, Alpha said:

Micah Richards telling me Mbappe is fast then them all doing the lads lads lads act while laughing is boring and annoying. 

Quite.  There are plenty of excellent pundits ‘of colour’, most notably Ferdinand who is arguably the strongest pundit of all. Micah belongs on League of their own with Freddie Flintoff 

[JoetheRam]

I love me some of big Mich's. No pretence of being a tactical expert a la Ferdinand, Neville, Carragher et. al) just an ex-players view with a sense of humour.

He's similar to how Wrighty was when he started out - big personality but in danger of being used just for weak laughs.

But when you've got about 3 minutes to actually discuss the football, it can only be surface level anyway, so no point taking it as earnestly as Jenas, Ferdinand and Neville do for example. All of whom are such tactical geniuses they choose the easy option of the sofa rather than the dugout.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by JoetheRam

[Tombo]

2 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Quite.  There are plenty of excellent pundits ‘of colour’, most notably Ferdinand who is arguably the strongest pundit of all. Micah belongs on League of their own with Freddie Flintoff 

I had to read this multiple times to try to figure out what point you're making, and I still don't understand. I have no idea why you've brought colour into it

Don't misunderstand me though, thats not an invitation to elaborate. I'd suggest stepping away from the keyboard.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Tombo said:

I had to read this multiple times to try to figure out what point you're making, and I still don't understand. I have no idea why you've brought colour into it

Don't misunderstand me though, thats not an invitation to elaborate. I'd suggest stepping away from the keyboard.

Quite a serious point so I’m happy to elaborate. There’s quite rightly pressure on all these platforms and networks to present diversity to their audience - in sport, drama, adverts, news, everything.

And there is such internal pressure on the programme makers to do it, that they do it in a hurry. There are 100s (literally) of black ex-footballers who would make excellent pundits. Mica Richards is not one of them, he’s not fit for purpose. They need to take the trouble to find the stars and give them exposure