The Ukraine War

[AndyinLiverpool]

6 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

Where's the EU in all this, the response from them is all self interest. Germany - gas, Italy- fashion etc, EU do nothing on the world stage, it's just a vip club.   

Any response by any country is self-interest. That's essentially what foreign policy is.

[I am Ram]

Russia appear to be struggling a little, i thought a superpower would have advanced more than this. Could be western propaganda though, maybe Vlad is buying some time. 

[I am Ram]

4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Any response by any country is self-interest. That's essentially what foreign policy is.

The EU being a state, i would want protection and security from it Andy.

[Alph]

Am I being thick? 

 And then reports of 200 civilians dead and over 1,000 wounded. 

Ukraine is calling on every man and his dog to take up arms. 

UK Foreign minister said the UK will support Brits that want to join the fight. 

Is this not madness even considering the situation??

[Wolfie]

2 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

Russia appear to be struggling a little, i thought a superpower would have advanced more than this. Could be western propaganda though, maybe Vlad is buying some time. 

I think Putin seriously underestimated the Ukrainian sitcom actor-turned President. 
He probably thought Zelensky would be on the first train out of there and it would have been done and dusted within a couple of days. 
 

Russia’s failure so far means that the longer it takes, the weaker Putin will be amongst his own side. 
 

All IMO, obviously. 

[Wolfie]

21 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

Where's the EU in all this, the response from them is all self interest. Germany - gas, Italy- fashion etc, EU do nothing on the world stage, it's just a vip club.   

I can see why some in the EU want deeper integration and yes, even a United States of Europe. 
The EU has shown in all the recent crises since the 2008 crash, that trying to take quick decisive action when you have 27 countries of equal voting power just doesn’t work when the brown stuff hits the spinny thing. 

[I am Ram]

2 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I think Putin seriously underestimated the Ukrainian sitcom actor-turned President. 
He probably thought Zelensky would be on the first train out of there and it would have been done and dusted within a couple of days. 
 

Russia’s failure so far means that the longer it takes, the weaker Putin will be amongst his own side. 
 

All IMO, obviously. 

If it gets drawn out, it would certainly make Russia look weak. 

[Tamworthram]

20 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I think Putin seriously underestimated the Ukrainian sitcom actor-turned President. 
He probably thought Zelensky would be on the first train out of there and it would have been done and dusted within a couple of days. 
 

Russia’s failure so far means that the longer it takes, the weaker Putin will be amongst his own side. 
 

All IMO, obviously. 

Of course the terrible scenario is that the longer it takes, using the methods currently being deployed, the more likely Putin is to resort to a more brutal offensive. So, it could go either way: Putin is weakened and has to find a way of withdrawing whilst saving face (better still he gets deposed) or he takes the brutality up a notch or two. Obviously I’m praying for the former.

[Alph]

Putin won't give up until he controls Kiev and/or Ukraine agree to talks in Belarus

Surely he has to have control of key areas east of Dnipro River including Kiev before being able to claim its a success. Returning now while claiming he's demilitarised Ukraine would surely be seen as a huge failure? 

Chechnya has sent its forces which is surely a sign of desperation.

Russia reports it's had talks rejected twice which I guess they didn't expect either. They probably thought that Ukraine would crumble at the sight of Russians within a day of Kiev and that they'd be able to "free" Donetsk and Luhansk. 

It's all gone a bit wrong hasn't it? But the worst is still to come. They have to take Kiev

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

It's all gone a bit wrong hasn't it? But the worst is still to come. They have to take Kiev

War tends to. I can’t remember any wars in my life time that have gone smoothly and according to plan. Generals don’t seem to realise that ordinary folk will fight to the end for their homes and families. That’s not just the British stiff upper lip, Dunkirk spirit, it’s true pretty much the world over. You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and you can’t waltz into a country and try to take its capital without meeting strong resistance.

we’ve got to learn from history so it doesn’t repeat itself, yet it does, time and time again. Maybe as a species we’re just doomed to destroy ourselves, it’s at the core of our nature. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

And now Russia's nuclear deterrent is on something called 'special mode of combat duty'

[Alph]

4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

And now Russia's nuclear deterrent is on something called 'special mode of combat duty'

I'm hoping it's only pressure during the talks to secure Donbas and ensure Ukraine do not ever join NATO

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Any response by any country is self-interest. That's essentially what foreign policy is.

That's a bit over cynical. Principle is that if Russia can just waltz into Ukraine , it could start taking over other European countries. So it could be us next.  Ok, unlikely but thats the principle. Ukraine is the thin end of the wedge.

[GenBr]

2 hours ago, I am Ram said:

Russia appear to be struggling a little, i thought a superpower would have advanced more than this. Could be western propaganda though, maybe Vlad is buying some time. 

Russia hasnt been a superpower since the fall of the berlin wall. They are a regional power at best.

Their economy is very weak and the war is apparently costing the russians £20 billion per day. They are on a timer and they need to end things quick before it totally ruins them.

Their military is a paper tiger as well - its modernised a lot in recent years, but its still riddled with corruption and incompetent leaders.

[i-Ram]

I have been saying for years that Putin is a wrongun, but nobody appears to have listened to me.

[Alph]

Just now, i-Ram said:

I have been saying for years that Putin is a wrongun, but nobody appears to have listened to me.

I think those that listened are in prison, exiled or tasted some dodgy wine. 

He was great for Russia in the beginning. Can't you just let him off with this blip?

[Alph]

President Vladimir Putin placed the country’s strategic deterrence forces on “special” alert on Sunday, announcing the move during a meeting with Russia’s Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Chief of Staff Valery Gerasimov.

“Western countries are not only taking unfriendly actions against our country in the economic area. I'm speaking about the illegitimate sanctions that everyone is well aware of. However, the top officials of the leading NATO countries also make aggressive statements against our country as well,” Putin stated.

[AndyinLiverpool]

34 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

That's a bit over cynical. Principle is that if Russia can just waltz into Ukraine , it could start taking over other European countries. So it could be us next.  Ok, unlikely but thats the principle. Ukraine is the thin end of the wedge.

What bit of that isn't self-interest?

[i-Ram]

17 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I think those that listened are in prison, exiled or tasted some dodgy wine. 

He was great for Russia in the beginning. Can't you just let him off with this blip?

Nah. I was struggling to get parts for my Lada long before this Ukraine business kicked off.

[ketteringram]

19 minutes ago, Alpha said:

President Vladimir Putin placed the country’s strategic deterrence forces on “special” alert on Sunday, announcing the move during a meeting with Russia’s Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Chief of Staff Valery Gerasimov.

“Western countries are not only taking unfriendly actions against our country in the economic area. I'm speaking about the illegitimate sanctions that everyone is well aware of. However, the top officials of the leading NATO countries also make aggressive statements against our country as well,” Putin stated.

Anybody think he's not mad enough to use it?